Rochester Americans 2021-2022

[GASabresIUFAN]

I think athletes are hard wired to want to win championships.  I think most of these kids would relish an opportunity to go to Rochester to try to win a championship regardless of level.  They would all benefit from playing playoff hockey.  I doubt any of the kids would take it as a demotion, but as an opportunity.  They might be annoyed at missing NHL money for a couple of games.  

[dudacek]

I think the three kids in Buffalo right now want to be in Buffalo and deserve to be in Buffalo and the Sabres benefit more from them being there than in Rochester.

Rochester exists to serve Buffalo, not the other way around.

 

[LGR4GM]

  On 4/18/2022 at 4:25 PM, dudacek said:

I think the three kids in Buffalo right now want to be in Buffalo and deserve to be in Buffalo and the Sabres benefit more from them being there than in Rochester.

Rochester exists to serve Buffalo, not the other way around.

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This seems short sighted. The point of them going to Rochester is to make sure Rochester makes the playoffs and their season gets extended. We want that so they get more experience to serve Buffalo next season when it matters. You're over here complaining about checkers while Adams should be playing chess. 

[pastajoe]

  On 4/18/2022 at 3:54 PM, Taro T said:

They WOULD understand.  But that wouldn't make the demotion fit with the professed philosophy of earning your results nor would it be looked upon favorably by the individual players.  Management has worked so hard to make this a place where character matters.  Why would they risk conveying the message that it only matters when it is expedient?  That is the antithesis of character.

Yes, Peyton, you're better than Bjork, but the kids need you, so Bjork gets the promotion from the press box & you get to go hop on a bus.  <_<

It also doesn't mesh w/ them only having 1 move left.

And lastly, what does it say to those other prideful professionals that didn't get put on the Sabres but are tasked with getting the Amerks ahead of one other team?  Nope, not good enough.   Jankowski, you & the rest are trash.  MAYBE the actual hockey players can save your sorry butts.

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The Sabres have one call up move left. It doesn’t affect players being sent down who do not yet have to clear waivers, so that is not an issue. And if my team was struggling I’d appreciate some reinforcements being sent to get over the hump, which they haven’t been able to do on their own.

And the argument that they’d be upset is ridiculous. They were originally brought up due to injuries. Those players are back and available to play. They knew the plan was to send them back for the playoffs. The Amerks are in a de facto playoff run now. Win or they’re out. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by pastajoe
Grammar

[dudacek]

  On 4/18/2022 at 8:42 PM, LGR4GM said:

This seems short sighted. The point of them going to Rochester is to make sure Rochester makes the playoffs and their season gets extended. We want that so they get more experience to serve Buffalo next season when it matters. You're over here complaining about checkers while Adams should be playing chess. 

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And you are pulling up to the sideboards and looking for a trailer when you already had a clear lane to the net.

Edited April 18, 2022 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

  On 4/18/2022 at 8:45 PM, dudacek said:

And you are pulling up to the sideboards and looking for a trailer when you already had a straight line to the net.

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You either don't care about the endgame or can't see it

[Brawndo]

This may have been discussed, but Adams mentioned in His Interview from the Weekend, that He told Seth Appert that Player Development supersedes the Amerks making the Playoffs. This probably explains why Krebs, Fitzgerald and Samuelsson are still in Buffalo 

[dudacek]

  On 4/18/2022 at 8:46 PM, LGR4GM said:

You either don't care about the endgame or can't see it

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I don’t think it’s that black-and-white.

Its sorta the same argument as trading off Hinostroza and Anderson for 5th rounders: there’s a good argument for it in terms of maximizing assets, but it is counterbalanced by its effect on the people in the Sabres locker room.

I prefer telling Krebs and Sammy and their teammates that they are full-fledged Sabres because they are.

I prefer telling JJ Jack and UPL that they shouldn’t be needing someone to rescue them; getting the Amerks to the playoffs is their job and the talent there is enough to make it happen.

 

 

[tom webster]

  On 4/18/2022 at 8:42 PM, LGR4GM said:

This seems short sighted. The point of them going to Rochester is to make sure Rochester makes the playoffs and their season gets extended. We want that so they get more experience to serve Buffalo next season when it matters. You're over here complaining about checkers while Adams should be playing chess. 

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This implies that there is an absolute correlation between success in the AHL and success in the NHL and I have seen no proof that one exists.

[LGR4GM]

  On 4/18/2022 at 8:58 PM, dudacek said:

I don’t think it’s that black-and-white.

Its sorta the same argument as trading off Hinostroza and Anderson for 5th rounders: there’s a good argument for it in terms of maximizing assets, but it is counterbalanced by its effect on the people in the Sabres locker room.

I prefer telling Krebs and Sammy and their teammates that they are full-fledged Sabres because they are.

I prefer telling JJ Jack and UPL that they shouldn’t be needing someone to rescue them; getting the Amerks to the playoffs is their job and the talent there is enough to make it happen.

 

 

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Oh, so the Eichel approach where 1 or 2 players are responsible. 

What's Jack Quinn supposed to do? Lead the ahl in ppg by more ppg? UPL just allowed 2ppg and 1 short handed goal and his team split those 2 games. Guess he needs to make it happen. 

  On 4/18/2022 at 9:01 PM, tom webster said:

This implies that there is an absolute correlation between success in the AHL and success in the NHL and I have seen no proof that one exists.

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Tons of evidence that success in the AHL at young age correlates. Just look around

  On 4/18/2022 at 8:54 PM, Brawndo said:

This may have been discussed, but Adams mentioned in His Interview from the Weekend, that He told Seth Appert that Player Development supersedes the Amerks making the Playoffs. This probably explains why Krebs, Fitzgerald and Samuelsson are still in Buffalo 

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Which is fine, I have no problem with it but we might miss some development time. 

[dudacek]

  On 4/18/2022 at 9:25 PM, LGR4GM said:

Oh, so the Eichel approach where 1 or 2 players are responsible. 

What's Jack Quinn supposed to do? Lead the ahl in ppg by more ppg? UPL just allowed 2ppg and 1 short handed goal and his team split those 2 games. Guess he needs to make it happen. 

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That’s not what I’m saying at all.

Rochester, as a general rule, should never be counting on Buffalo Sabres to be the difference between them winning and losing. Buffalo, as a general rule, should not be weakening their roster in order to bolster Rochester’s.

It runs contrary to the purpose of either organization.

Samuelsson and Krebs are Buffalo Sabres. 

[tom webster]

  On 4/18/2022 at 9:25 PM, LGR4GM said:

Oh, so the Eichel approach where 1 or 2 players are responsible. 

What's Jack Quinn supposed to do? Lead the ahl in ppg by more ppg? UPL just allowed 2ppg and 1 short handed goal and his team split those 2 games. Guess he needs to make it happen. 

Tons of evidence that success in the AHL at young age correlates. Just look around

Which is fine, I have no problem with it but we might miss some development time. 

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Cause and effect. Good guys are likely to be good at every level. Just because a guy found success in the NHL doesn’t automatically infer that it happened as a result of some age old developmental plan that might be the last vestige of a Don Cherry belief system. No surprise that a guy that ended up successful was probably successful along the way. Isn’t it just as likely that a deep playoff run might result in a guy wearing out in next year’s playoff run? Plenty of evidence to suggest that as well.

[Taro T]

  On 4/18/2022 at 8:42 PM, pastajoe said:

The Sabres have one call up move left. It doesn’t affect players being sent down who do not yet have to clear waivers, so that is not an issue. And if my team was struggling I’d appreciate some reinforcements being sent to get over the hump, which they haven’t been able to do on their own.

And the argument that they’d be upset is ridiculous. They were originally brought up due to injuries. Those players are back and available to play. They knew the plan was to send them back for the playoffs. The Amerks are in a de facto playoff run now. Win or they’re out. 

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Yep.  The 4 recall rule is only applicable to call ups.  (Was thinking of the pre-cap rules.)  Thanks.

But the only players on the Sabres that are eligible to be sent down (barring injury rehab) are Samuelsson, Krebs, & Fitzgerald.  2 of those guys AREN'T going back down in season.  And the other really shouldn't get jerked around either IMHO, though will say the case to send Fitz back down is stronger.

[LGR4GM]

  On 4/18/2022 at 9:50 PM, dudacek said:

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

Rochester, as a general rule, should never be counting on Buffalo Sabres to be the difference between them winning and losing. Buffalo, as a general rule, should not be weakening their roster in order to bolster Rochester’s.

It runs contrary to the purpose of either organization.

Samuelsson and Krebs are Buffalo Sabres. 

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The Sabres season is over. You're hung up on semantics and rules that don't apply impo.

  On 4/18/2022 at 9:55 PM, tom webster said:

Cause and effect. Good guys are likely to be good at every level. Just because a guy found success in the NHL doesn’t automatically infer that it happened as a result of some age old developmental plan that might be the last vestige of a Don Cherry belief system. No surprise that a guy that ended up successful was probably successful along the way. Isn’t it just as likely that a deep playoff run might result in a guy wearing out in next year’s playoff run? Plenty of evidence to suggest that as well.

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What I'm saying is that at this point any extra hockey Samuelsson, Fitz, and Krebs get is good for development.

[tom webster]

  On 4/18/2022 at 9:50 PM, dudacek said:

That’s not what I’m saying at all.

Rochester, as a general rule, should never be counting on Buffalo Sabres to be the difference between them winning and losing. Buffalo, as a general rule, should not be weakening their roster in order to bolster Rochester’s.

It runs contrary to the purpose of either organization.

Samuelsson and Krebs are Buffalo Sabres. 

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You also don’t play around with people’s lives. You earn a promotion, you deserve to live that promotion.

[tom webster]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:21 PM, LGR4GM said:

The Sabres season is over. You're hung up on semantics and rules that don't apply impo.

What I'm saying is that at this point any extra hockey Samuelsson, Fitz, and Krebs get is good for development.

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And what I’m saying is that I believe the three players listed might be better served playing out the season in Buffalo and that other than “that’s the way we’ve always done it” there isn’t hard evidence to the contrary.

[LGR4GM]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:33 PM, tom webster said:

And what I’m saying is that I believe the three players listed might be better served playing out the season in Buffalo and that other than “that’s the way we’ve always done it” there isn’t hard evidence to the contrary.

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But there isn't evidence for your point either 

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:23 PM, tom webster said:

You also don’t play around with people’s lives. You earn a promotion, you deserve to live that promotion.

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I'm sure Samuelsson would be so upset going back to hang out with his buddy Quinn. 

[dudacek]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:21 PM, LGR4GM said:

The Sabres season is over. You're hung up on semantics and rules that don't apply impo.

What I'm saying is that at this point any extra hockey Samuelsson, Fitz, and Krebs get is good for development.

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I don’t think it’s semantics, it’s about managing people: honouring the work the Rochester grads have put in, and giving the players still in Rochester a chance to overcome a challenge without Daddy stacking the roster in their favour.

That’s not a broken roster down there any more, most of their injuries are past.

[dudacek]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:23 PM, tom webster said:

You also don’t play around with people’s lives. You earn a promotion, you deserve to live that promotion.

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”Thanks LGR for all the work you did up here in corporate. It’s paid off in our best quarter in years. But we’re pulling you out of there before you can wrap up your project in order to put in some OT at the warehouse two states over at your old pay grade. But no worries, you like those guys!”

Edited April 18, 2022 by dudacek

[tom webster]

For the record, I have no idea if I’m right but what I know with one hundred percent certainty is that the game is better because people questioned the status quo and I think there is at least a little doubt that should cause people to question what’s best for a player’s development.

[pastajoe]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:50 PM, dudacek said:

”Thanks LGR for all the work you did up here in corporate. It’s paid off in our best quarter in years. But we’re pulling you out of there before you can wrap up your project in order to put in some OT at the warehouse two states over at your old pay grade. But no worries, you like those guys!”

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“Thanks dudacek for coming to work at the corporate office while we had so many people out. But your branch office and friends are suffering and it might close soon without your help. Since our staff is back to full strength, we would really appreciate it if you could help them out, knowing that we fully intend to move you up to the corporate office next year.”

[LGR4GM]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:50 PM, dudacek said:

”Thanks LGR for all the work you did up here in corporate. It’s paid off in our best quarter in years. But we’re pulling you out of there before you can wrap up your project in order to put in some OT at the warehouse two states over at your old pay grade. But no worries, you like those guys!”

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Not even sorta kinda a good analogy. This is like comparing bourbon to Porta potty water and thinking it's close

  On 4/18/2022 at 11:26 PM, pastajoe said:

“Thanks dudacek for coming to work at the corporate office while we had so many people out. But your branch office and friends are suffering and it might close soon without your help. Since our staff is back to full strength, we would really appreciate it if you could help them out, knowing that we fully intend to move you up to the corporate office next year.”

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Bingo

[WildCard]

  On 4/18/2022 at 10:23 PM, tom webster said:

You also don’t play around with people’s lives. You earn a promotion, you deserve to live that promotion.

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Exactly. Their goal is to make the NHL. They've earned that, and the NHL team is much, much better off with them. It doesn't help what we have brewing on the Sabres by removing those players for the Amerks; they don't want to play in the AHL, their teammates on the Sabres don't want them going down, and losing these last 4 so the Amerks can get bounced in the playoffs isn't helping the Sabres. Furthermore, what happens to Power? Show him we aim to win at the NHL level and that's what this team is about.

Edited April 19, 2022 by WildCard

[dudacek]

  On 4/18/2022 at 11:26 PM, pastajoe said:

“Thanks dudacek for coming to work at the corporate office while we had so many people out. But your branch office and friends are suffering and it might close soon without your help. Since our staff is back to full strength, we would really appreciate it if you could help them out, knowing that we fully intend to move you up to the corporate office next year.”

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“I wasn’t loaned to the corporate office sir, I was promoted with the salary and all the perks that were implicit to that promotion. It was something that I desperately wanted, I worked my whole life for and I earned.

Of course I will do exactly as I am asked. But I would much prefer that I get to complete my current project that I am fully invested in first. I hope I will be given enough time to readjust to the warehouse and that the crew there welcomes me back. Because given the turnaround time, I am not sure I am capable of giving them the lift you seem to take for granted.

Off the record we both know that I am far more useful to the corporate office than the person you will be using instead of me and we both know corporate will be worse off from my absence.

I am not out the door at the first opportunity because of this but I do keep a ledger on where you draw the lines between family and business, and I will remember it.”

  On 4/18/2022 at 11:27 PM, LGR4GM said:

Not even sorta kinda a good analogy. This is like comparing bourbon to Porta potty water and thinking it's close

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One thing I’ve learned from Sabrespace is how likely it is that everyone reacts to exactly the same situation the same way.

Im sure that holds true for hockey players in this situation.

Just like I’m sure that in the court of industry opinion the Sabres are perceived more bourbon than than Portapotty water and wouldn’t benefit at all from little gestures to shift that perception.

Edited April 19, 2022 by dudacek

[kas23]

If I were them and I got sent down to earn the salary equivalent 5 AHL games vs an NHL salary, I’d be pissed at that age. If the Sabres season was over, this would be a very different situation.