Pegulas New Bills Stadium Proposal a Public and Private Partnership

[Doohicksie]

3 minutes ago, HoosierDaddy said:

We’re still paying .5% more in sales tax 21 years later for Paul Brown Stadium. And the proposed property tax rebates never happened because of decreases in sales tax revenue due to recessions and online shopping. Also, because the county owns and operates the stadium maintenance and any needed upgrades come from the general fund. Same goes for Great American Ballpark. I just hope that Erie County makes a better deal than Hamilton county did in 1996.

Sounds like they need to sell some naming rights.

[HoosierDaddy]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Sounds like they need to sell some naming rights.

I’ve always wondered why they don’t. I mean, Cincinnati is a small market but we have two major corporations headquartered here in Kroger and P&G that could be interested. 

[nucci]

4 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The obligatory we aren’t planning to move however

The team has made no overt threats, sources say, to leave Buffalo if it doesn’t get the full funding request, but it has made clear to government negotiators that there are other cities elsewhere that desire an NFL franchise and would pay handsomely for it.

How nice of them to say that. They are off to  good start. Good thing Sabres are such a good a team

[Eleven]

22 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

The other consideration is that moving downtown could end Bills tailgaiting as we know it.  They're set up pretty good for that now; a downtown solution would probably mean parking garages rather than open air lots.

There are tons of open air lots downtown.  

[HoosierDaddy]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

How nice of them to say that. They are off to  good start. Good thing Sabres are such a good a team

That passive threat was related to the Bills. I don’t think threatening to move the Sabres would move the needle too much right now.

[Eleven]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

See, ^ they get it. 

Pegulas will make billions from the Bills over the life of a new stadium while the county will make pennies based on false promises. We can't afford to get the homeless the help they need but ***** it if we can't afford a billionaires pleasure palace. 

There is room for both.

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Sounds like they need to sell some naming rights.

That will certainly be factored in for the owners to apply to their share of the building cost. 

[SabresVet]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

1.5 billion is a lot of money, even for a billionaire.  Do think the pegula's are looking for a 50/50 split or something like that.

Then take out a mortgage like loan and do it yourself.  Public financing for something that benefits so few is asinine. 

38 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

NY States budget is 212 billion. The plan to divert 1% of that to football games tells you everything you need to know about the decline of America in the 21st century. 

So 700k roughly. Much more palatable number but still rough. 

And the NYS budget has risen almost 23% over the past 2-3 years.  

[HoosierDaddy]

8 minutes ago, Eleven said:

There is room for both.

I agree that the psychological blow to WNY of losing the Bills and Sabres would be catastrophic. But the county and state have to get a better deal than Hamilton county got in 1996. And this might be tough because I would imagine that the Pegulas are better negotiators than Mike Brown and Marge Schott.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, HoosierDaddy said:

I agree that the psychological blow to WNY of losing the Bills and Sabres would be catastrophic. But the county and state have to get a better deal than Hamilton county got in 1996. And this might be tough because I would imagine that the Pegulas are better negotiators than Mike Brown and Marge Schott.

The issue isn't going to be so much how good the Pegulas are at negotiating as it is how good are the public authorities in negotiating and protecting the public interests. 

[HoosierDaddy]

Just now, JohnC said:

The issue isn't going to be so much how good the Pegulas are at negotiating as it is how good are the public authorities in negotiating and protecting the public interests. 

That’s exactly it, and Marge Schott and Mike Brown of all people used the threat of a franchise move to coerce the citizens of Hamilton County into the worst stadium financing deal in the history of North American professional sports. And we only have ourselves to blame, because that tax hike was passed by a public referendum.

[SDS]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What do you mean?

I just made a proposal right now that  proposes all taxes raised by New York State be diverted to me.

That says a lot about the state of America in the year 2021.

[JohnC]

Just now, HoosierDaddy said:

That’s exactly it, and Marge Schott and Mike Brown of all people used the threat of a franchise move to coerce the citizens of Hamilton County into the worst stadium financing deal in the history of North American professional sports. And we only have ourselves to blame, because that tax hike was passed by a public referendum.

As with many other stadium financing there will be additional taxes associated with the entertainment and the hospitality industries that will be dedicated to the public costs. Some of them could be hotel, restaurant and ticket taxes on events. It will defray much of the public costs but probably not all of them. 

[PP Slapper]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

The other consideration is that moving downtown could end Bills tailgaiting as we know it.  They're set up pretty good for that now; a downtown solution would probably mean parking garages rather than open air lots.

Good?

[Thwomp!]

Boy, are we such a long way from the "drill another well" days.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thwomp! said:

Boy, are we such a long way from the "drill another well" days.

He's drilling another well. It's into every taxpayer in Erie County's pocket. 

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, HoosierDaddy said:

We’re still paying .5% more in sales tax 21 years later for Paul Brown Stadium. And the proposed property tax rebates never happened because of decreases in sales tax revenue due to recessions and online shopping. Also, because the county owns and operates the stadium maintenance and any needed upgrades come from the general fund. Same goes for Great American Ballpark. I just hope that Erie County makes a better deal than Hamilton county did in 1996.

As a Bengals fan I'm well aware of this. There is a reason there is/was a website called www.mikebrownsucks.com .

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Highmark Stadium as it's known as now is older than War Memorial stadium was in 1972 when it was replaced. It will be 50 when the lease expiries in 2023. And yes it's starting to fall apart. Those upper decks will not last forever. Of course we could wait until they collapse on their own.

There's no question it's time to replace it. In the end everyone will pay part of the bill. Including fans with PSLs. The NFL is an expensive club and one that would rather not have a team here if it were up to them. Same for the NHL to a lesser degree. Taxpayers have to decide if AHL hockey and college football/basketball is enough entertainment.

Oh by the way, it'll cost several hundred million to demolish the stadium too.  100% taxpayer funded, that will be 

At least you acknowledge that the value of the Bills is entertainment and not economic.

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Went to one of their voice of the fan meetings about potential renovations to the MMArena a couple years back.  They were discussing some serious revisions to how the seating is set up among other things.  Pretty sure those were posted here back then, but not sure how easy it'd be to find them.  Might try to track down my notes one of these days to repost.

Interesting. That sounds extensive. As does the $400 million price tag. How do you spend that much money in one offseason? Where will the Sabres play during renovations? What if — stay with me here — when the renovations start in three years, the Sabres are playing hockey in June?

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

See, ^ they get it. 

Pegulas will make billions from the Bills over the life of a new stadium while the county will make pennies based on false promises. We can't afford to get the homeless the help they need but ***** it if we can't afford a billionaires pleasure palace. 

Fear and loathing! Fear and loathing! Turns out, they should be feared and loathed. You'd think burgeoning economic inequality and the pandemic would be turning the tide against this nonsense.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

I just made a proposal right now that  proposes all taxes raised by New York State be diverted to me.

That says a lot about the state of America in the year 2021.

But you didn't. PSE, though, started a negotiation by being *****.

Don't you think public financing to the tune of billions of dollars for a private, very wealthy corporation makes any kind of social statement?

[PromoTheRobot]

32 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

At least you acknowledge that the value of the Bills is entertainment and not economic.

 

There is economic benefit. Just not enough to offset the investment.

[sodbuster]

Out of curiosity, how much income tax does the state pull off of players per year?

[Hoss]

14 minutes ago, sodbuster said:

Out of curiosity, how much income tax does the state pull off of players per year?

if that’s how this works we should all demand much more of our employers

[Thwomp!]

1 hour ago, HoosierDaddy said:

That’s exactly it, and Marge Schott and Mike Brown of all people used the threat of a franchise move to coerce the citizens of Hamilton County into the worst stadium financing deal in the history of North American professional sports. And we only have ourselves to blame, because that tax hike was passed by a public referendum.

Doesn't matter. Columbus voted down public arena financing several times. City council passed it anyway and blocked it from being challenged via referendum. 

If the politicians want it, it will happen.

[Doohicksie]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

There are tons of open air lots downtown.  

1. How close to a stadium site?

2. Would the owners allow tailgating?

I mean, sure it might not change that much, but why mess with it?

[SDS]

8 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

1. How close to a stadium site?

2. Would the owners allow tailgating?

I mean, sure it might not change that much, but why mess with it?

These questions are so 10 years ago. It’s easy to throw out a hypothetical question without any confounding detail. A lot of people have studied this and the fact that they landed back at Orchard Park is quite telling.