Pegulas New Bills Stadium Proposal a Public and Private Partnership

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I’d rather help pay then lose either team; we are always stuck paying for primarily NYC stuff as it is. May as well get something from them.

That being said; I’d be more interested in a 3way split between the NFL, NYS and the Pegulas

You might want to look a bit closer into what parts of the state financially prop up the others.  It’s not what you think it is.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Weave

[Brawndo]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

You might want to look a bit closer into what parts of the state financially prop up the others.  It’s not what you think it is.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

Also: It seems like huge news that their new stadium plans are to build in OP.

I'd heard that previously.

[Doohicksie]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So a sports league that makes billions each year, has the billionaire owners of 1 of their teams ask for 1.5 billions in free money.  

Bread and circuses. 

That's the way the game is played.  AT&T Stadium where the Cowboys play is called JerryWorld locally but it was primarily taxpayer funded.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Doohickie

[SabresinPhx]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

How about a 50/50 split for starters with negotiations, then moving towards the Pegula’s paying more. 

Not happening... Professional sports don't work that way, unfortunately.

[Doohicksie]

34 minutes ago, JohnC said:

That would have been a foolish approach to take because these decisions are state and local decisions and not federal decisions. 

And he didn't.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

And he didn't.

That was the right decision assuming he even considered it. I'm not sure if he ever considered the issue because it would be a state and local decision and not fall under a federal authority.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

This won't end well.

Sure it will 

[Gabrielor]

57 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Before covid the NFL made 16 billion in profit. Yet the league isn't chipping in money and the 5 billion dollar owners aren't. Let's fund the stadium, we get 75% of the profit until the loan is paid off plus 25% extra and then we get 25% of the profit from that point forward. Giving billions to rich ppl is ***** dumb. Nys would be better off investing 1.5 billion in Buffalo's telecommunications infrastructure to attract businesses. 

Move the team. I'll watch college football instead. 

It's realllllllllll easy to deal with this news as primarily a 49ers fan :D.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, JKB1646 said:

it is important to consider that public financing is largely helping billionaires pay less for a service that they can afford. This dangerous precedent is an unnecessary privilege rather than a necessity. These sports teams are supported by successful owners who are capable of funding stadiums themselves. The owners will be compensated handsomely through the profits received through ticket sales, corporate advertising, and concessions over the next several decades. Public subsidies are an unfortunate power play used by these influential teams on local communities that are emotionally attached to sports teams, and a shift to making these projects private is going to be important moving forward.
 

quoted from a great article https://econreview.berkeley.edu/the-economics-of-sports-stadiums-does-public-financing-of-sports-stadiums-create-local-economic-growth-or-just-help-billionaires-improve-their-profit-margin/

This is true in New York, L.A., Dallas, Boston, etc. Not true in Buffalo. Public money is the only reason we have major league sports here. We support these teams with public money. The NHL and NFL would gladly free us of this oppressive burden. Just say the word.

[PromoTheRobot]

45 minutes ago, Weave said:

You might want to look a bit closer into what parts of the state financially prop up the others.  It’s not what you think it is.

Did you hear the one about Buffalo propping up New York City with our taxes?

[Eleven]

Let's all settle down.  They know the stadium won't be 100% taxpayer funded and we know the stadium won't be 100% Pegula funded.  It's just negotiation.  And that stadium is a POS and we do need a new one.  It's 50 years old.  I question the decision to return to OP though.

 

[thewookie1]

52 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Did you hear the one about Buffalo propping up New York City with our taxes?

Oh I never meant it that way. I was more alluding to the feeling that whatever we put in the NYS pot tends to end up primarily in NYC and the surrounding region. Granted they put more in; but it still is aggravating nonetheless because we seem often overlooked 

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Let's all settle down.  They know the stadium won't be 100% taxpayer funded and we know the stadium won't be 100% Pegula funded.  It's just negotiation.  And that stadium is a POS and we do need a new one.  It's 50 years old.  I question the decision to return to OP though.

 

Locating the new stadium in OP makes a lot of sense. My understanding is that they own land where the stadium will be located thus avoiding the multi-year battle of where to locate it.  And by locating it near the old stadium there wouldn't be a need to pay added costs that include land acquisition and new infrastructure. Ideally, many people would prefer a downtown location that has some provisions for public transportation. But those advantages wouldn't compensate for the added costs and exhausting political battles of where to exactly locate the new stadium downtown or anywhere else. 

[miles]

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

400M to renovate KBC?? That is a LOT of renovating. The Wells Fargo center is in the middle of a 300M renovation and they are changing a lot of stuff. 

I think that's one of the numbers that comes down but I'd be interested to hear that plan for that much money. Trying to bundle that money in with the Bills money is smart. The Bills are good right now and that will help with public support. If they asked for 400M for the Sabres as a standalone thing right now they'd get laughed out of the room.

Also, The Pegulas are going to end up kicking in as will the NFL but that's not how a negotiation works.

Building in OP will keep the overall cost down, they don't need to redo roads or acquire land or things like that. It's already there and the county already owns the land. If they built it downtown the infrastructure and land acquisition alone would cost a billion dollars.

Went to one of their voice of the fan meetings about potential renovations to the MMArena a couple years back.  They were discussing some serious revisions to how the seating is set up among other things.  Pretty sure those were posted here back then, but not sure how easy it'd be to find them.  Might try to track down my notes one of these days to repost.

[Hoss]

There are only three current stadiums that were built with 100% public funds (this does not consider renovations:

Highmark Stadium (Bills - cost $22M to build)

Arrowhead Stadium (Chiefs - cost $43M to build)

Raymond James (Bucs - cost $194M to build)

Did some math based on this website (they incorrectly state that the Bills was 100% private when the original $22M for the stadium was 100% public funding).

Not counting the Rams/Chargers stadium (because it’s a complex bigger than Disney that only LA could pull off and is “privately” funded) and the 49ers stadium (because their funding agreement is laid too complex to simply lay out a number but is also a likely model for future funding deals):

NFL stadiums have cost $14,178,300,000. Of that, $6,184,900,000 has been public funding. That’s about 44% of public funding for stadiums. So that’s gives you an idea of what the actual cost may be.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Hoss

[LGR4GM]

NY States budget is 212 billion. The plan to divert 1% of that to football games tells you everything you need to know about the decline of America in the 21st century. 

15 minutes ago, Hoss said:

There are only three current stadiums that were built with 100% public funds (this does not consider renovations:

Highmark Stadium (Bills - cost $22M to build)

Arrowhead Stadium (Chiefs - cost $43M to build)

Raymond James (Bucs - cost $194M to build)

Did some math based on this website (they incorrectly state that the Bills was 100% private when the original $22M for the stadium was 100% public funding).

Not counting the Rams/Chargers stadium (because it’s a complex bigger than Disney that only LA could pull off and is “privately” funded) and the 49ers stadium (because their funding agreement is laid too complex to simply lay out a number but is also a likely model for future funding deals):

NFL stadiums have cost $14,178,300,000. Of that, $6,184,900,000 has been public funding. That’s about 44% of public funding for stadiums. So that’s gives you an idea of what the actual cost may be.

So 700k roughly. Much more palatable number but still rough. 

[Hoss]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

NY States budget is 212 billion. The plan to divert 1% of that to football games tells you everything you need to know about the decline of America in the 21st century. 

I’d say the general response to this first offer at what is likely to be a years-long negotiation says more about the state of things than the first offer does.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Hoss said:

I’d say the general response to this first offer at what is likely to be a years-long negotiation says more about the state of things than the first offer does.

What do you mean?

[Doohicksie]

28 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Building in OP will keep the overall cost down, they don't need to redo roads or acquire land or things like that. It's already there and the county already owns the land. If they built it downtown the infrastructure and land acquisition alone would cost a billion dollars.

The other consideration is that moving downtown could end Bills tailgaiting as we know it.  They're set up pretty good for that now; a downtown solution would probably mean parking garages rather than open air lots.

[kas23]

They should put a clause in the negotiations stating that the public will pay 1% of costs for every Sabres win over the next 2 seasons. 

[Hoss]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

What do you mean?

People severely responding to an unverified report about something that is nowhere near final.

[HoosierDaddy]

We’re still paying .5% more in sales tax 21 years later for Paul Brown Stadium. And the proposed property tax rebates never happened because of decreases in sales tax revenue due to recessions and online shopping. Also, because the county owns and operates the stadium maintenance and any needed upgrades come from the general fund. Same goes for Great American Ballpark. I just hope that Erie County makes a better deal than Hamilton county did in 1996.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, HoosierDaddy said:

We’re still paying .5% more in sales tax 21 years later for Paul Brown Stadium. And the proposed property tax rebates never happened because of decreases in sales tax revenue due to recessions and online shopping. Also, because the county owns and operates the stadium maintenance and any needed upgrades come from the general fund. Same goes for Great American Ballpark. I just hope that Erie County makes a better deal than Hamilton county did in 1996.

See, ^ they get it. 

Pegulas will make billions from the Bills over the life of a new stadium while the county will make pennies based on false promises. We can't afford to get the homeless the help they need but ***** it if we can't afford a billionaires pleasure palace.