Defense in 2022-23 & Beyond

[dudacek]

35 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They have reached the cap floor once the RFAs are re-signed.  They'll be at able 62 mill.  

Insurance is a fair word.  Conceptually that's fine, except each of the new guys brings something specific to the lineup that KA wants.  Butcher brings speed and offense, Pysyk a RHD and Hagg physical play.  I can accept Hagg might be insurance for Samuelsson, but Butcher is simply a more experienced version of Bryson.  To me it's clearly saying he thinks Bryson isn't ready.  

Not meaning to pick on the bold, but I've seen this misconception from a few posters; Butcher is not fast.

He can process the game and move the puck fast, but from what I read, his feet are actually the weakest part of his game, especially in the defensive zone.

To your point, the Sabres need 8 defencemen. They have 2 who are guaranteed jobs. Adams was actually paid to take on Butcher.

To me he's clearly saying "Why not? Best case scenario is he anchors our 2nd pair, worst case he sits in the press box fills a role in case of injury and gets us to the cap floor."

[GASabresIUFAN]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not meaning to pick on the bold, but I've seen this misconception from a few posters; Butcher is not fast.

He can process the game and move the puck fast, but from what I read, his feet are actually the weakest part of his game, especially in the defensive zone.

To your point, the Sabres need 8 defencemen. They have 2 who are guaranteed jobs. Adams was actually paid to take on Butcher.

To me he's clearly saying "Why not? Best case scenario is he anchors our 2nd pair, worst case he sits in the press box fills a role in case of injury and gets us to the cap floor."

I disagree on Butcher’s speed.  His skating was his hallmark in college.  He is fast. His footwork on defense is a major issue and has been since he joined the NHL.  

This is from LWOS.

Quote

 

Skating

Butcher is quick skater. He has excellent speed in both directions. He also has very good acceleration. Butcher has very good agility and edge work. This allows him to cover a lot of ice. It also makes him tough to beat one-on-one. Butcher will need to add more core strength and improve his balance. This will help him to win battles in the corners and in front of the net.

 

 

[dudacek]

Maybe that ligament damage he had has slowed him up post-college?

I don't have time to dig them up, but reading through Jersey blogs and commentary, his bad footwork was a common theme this year.

[Thorner]

I'd bet Miller and Pysyk start as they fill out the right shots.

Dahlin/Jokijarju obvious locks

So Hagg and Butcher in a competition with Samuelsson and Bryson for bottom 2/3rds of the left side. Though realistically there'll be injuries anyways. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

13 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'd bet Miller and Pysyk start as they fill out the right shots.

Dahlin/Jokijarju obvious locks

So Hagg and Butcher in a competition with Samuelsson and Bryson for bottom 2/3rds of the left side. Though realistically there'll be injuries anyways. 

It’ll be mildly interesting to watch, since both Bryson and Samuelsson seem ready. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

It’ll be mildly interesting to watch, since both Bryson and Samuelsson seem ready. 

I agree which is why adding Butcher is perplexing other then we got him for nothing.  

[Drag0nDan]

On 8/11/2021 at 8:34 AM, Thorny said:

I'd bet Miller and Pysyk start as they fill out the right shots.

Dahlin/Jokijarju obvious locks

So Hagg and Butcher in a competition with Samuelsson and Bryson for bottom 2/3rds of the left side. Though realistically there'll be injuries anyways. 

My guess 

Dahlin-Joki

Butcher - Miller

Samuelsson - Pysyk

Hagg

Maybe bryson as a 7th.  Not sure how salary floor works though.  Clearly they didn't love brysons game a ton if they brought in Power, Butcher, and Hagg in one offseason.  I just feel like they need a bit more of a defensive presence on the bottom pair but that's just me.  Bryson was mostly fine

[dudacek]

Don't think they will, but the picture on defence changes a fair bit now, and lot in the future if Dahlin switches to the right side.

Separately, the more I look at skill sets on D and think about what the organization has said, the more I think we will see Matty the Mule getting a ton of ice in the McCabe role this year.

Hope the poor kid doesn't go the way of Ristolainen.

Edited August 12, 2021 by dudacek

[Crusader1969]

On 7/31/2021 at 11:45 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

When I look at the acquisitions and the players returning there is only going to be one or two position battles at the most.

Obviously Jokiharju and Dahlin are cemented in the lineup.  They are paying Miller good money.  He'll be playing.  KA acquired Hagg and Butcher.  They also will be playing at least early in the season.

That 5 of 6 starting jobs already claimed.  I can see the argument that Hagg also will have to compete for his job, but that still means 4 of 6 job have been claimed already.

Right now the lineup looks like

LD - RD

Dahlin  Jokiharju

Butcher   ?????

Hagg   Miller

I don't think Pysyk is good enough to crack the lineup, but maybe.  I also don't want Butcher with Miller.  Talk about D zone issues.  Honestly, we need another D first RHD (Borgen - yes I know).  If Samuelsson is read and can play his off side.  Problem solved.  I'm not sure right now where Bryson fits into the rotation.  I thought he was pretty good last year and deserves a legit shot at the roster, but a Bryson Miller pairing scares me almost as bad as a Butcher/Miller pairing.

Im going to guess Borgen will be back, no way he cracks the Seattle line-up. will be waived and the Sabres pick him up

[Taro T]

58 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Im going to guess Borgen will be back, no way he cracks the Seattle line-up. will be waived and the Sabres pick him up

My guess is he won't be back, but am hoping that's wrong.

He isn't in their top 8 at present, but there's still roughly 2 months before the season starts.  A lot can happen between then & now.

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree which is why adding Butcher is perplexing other then we got him for nothing.  

You NEVER have enough decent defensemen. (Assuming we have a chance to win games this year) 

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree which is why adding Butcher is perplexing other then we got him for nothing.  

It's only in theory that there'd be a block by Butcher on say Samuelsson. In reality, someone will be injured. A team almost never has no injuries, no injuries at all on D, etc

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Don't think they will, but the picture on defence changes a fair bit now, and lot in the future if Dahlin switches to the right side.

Separately, the more I look at skill sets on D and think about what the organization has said, the more I think we will see Matty the Mule getting a ton of ice in the McCabe role this year.

Hope the poor kid doesn't go the way of Ristolainen.

Rather than picking the best defenseman for a ludicrous role, they need to take the steps necessary to ensure no ludicrous role needs filling. 

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Im going to guess Borgen will be back, no way he cracks the Seattle line-up. will be waived and the Sabres pick him up

I always chuckle at the thought the Sabres would be wringing their hands in the hopes of snatching up cast-offs from an expansion team

Edited August 12, 2021 by Thorny

[spndnchz]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

 

I always chuckle at the thought the Sabres would be wringing their hands in the hopes of snatching up cast-offs from an expansion team

I have to admit I did chuckle.  Not a full spray of coffee, I could’ve held it in. 

[Andrew Amerk]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

It's only in theory that there'd be a block by Butcher on say Samuelsson. In reality, someone will be injured. A team almost never has no injuries, no injuries at all on D, etc

Rather than picking the best defenseman for a ludicrous role, they need to take the steps necessary to ensure no ludicrous role needs filling. 

I always chuckle at the thought the Sabres would be wringing their hands in the hopes of snatching up cast-offs from an expansion team

Ah yes. 

The classic butcher block. 

[Drag0nDan]

On 8/12/2021 at 11:02 AM, Thorny said:

It's only in theory that there'd be a block by Butcher on say Samuelsson. In reality, someone will be injured. A team almost never has no injuries, no injuries at all on D, etc

Rather than picking the best defenseman for a ludicrous role, they need to take the steps necessary to ensure no ludicrous role needs filling. 

I always chuckle at the thought the Sabres would be wringing their hands in the hopes of snatching up cast-offs from an expansion team

I think Samuelsson will be given every chance to take a spot in the bottom pair.  Bryson's as likely to hit the minors as samuelsson with Hagg as an extra skater.

[triumph_communes]

Is Borgen actually going to get waived?  That helps a lot as sad as that may come off. 

[Digger]

I saw that this was posted yesterday.  I did not see an English translation.  I'm hoping there's no drama from the Dahlin camp or anything taken out of context.  If anyone has anything further on the translated interview then please post.

[GASabresIUFAN]

While it seems likely right now that Power is going to return to college for next season, on the off chance that he and Johnson sign with the Sabres we could in theory have a defense the features the following

Power (1st overall 2021) - LHD

Johnson (1st rd 31st overall 2019) - LHD

Dahlin (1st overall 2018) - LHD/RHD

Samuelsson (2nd rd 32nd overall 2018) - LHD

Jokiharju (1st rd 29th overall 2017) RHD

Pysyk (1st rd 23rd overall 2010) - RHD

 

NHL experience of the current roster players

Pysyk (453 NHL games)

Miller (349 NHL games)

Butcher (238 NHL games)

Hagg (236 NHL games)

Dahlin (197 NHL games)

Davidson (180 NHL games)

Jokiharju (153 NHL games)

Bryson (38 NHL games)

Samuelsson (12 NHL games)

Schuldt (1 NHL game)

 

 

 

 

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

While it seems likely right now that Power is going to return to college for next season, on the off chance that he and Johnson sign with the Sabres we could in theory have a defense the features the following

Power (1st overall 2021) - LHD

Johnson (1st rd 31st overall 2019) - LHD

Dahlin (1st overall 2018) - LHD/RHD

Samuelsson (2nd rd 32nd overall 2018) - LHD

Jokiharju (1st rd 29th overall 2017) RHD

Pysyk (1st rd 23rd overall 2010) - RHD

 

NHL experience of the current roster players

Pysyk (453 NHL games)

Miller (349 NHL games)

Butcher (238 NHL games)

Hagg (236 NHL games)

Dahlin (197 NHL games)

Davidson (180 NHL games)

Jokiharju (153 NHL games)

Bryson (38 NHL games)

Samuelsson (12 NHL games)

Schuldt (1 NHL game)

 

 

 

 

If I were Johnson, I'd stay in college 2 more years. At best you're 3 pairing in Buffalo. 

Also, Power and Johnson are going to college this year. Only way that doesn't happen if the college season is canceled and both go to the AHL for a chunk. 

[Brawndo]

26 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If I were Johnson, I'd stay in college 2 more years. At best you're 3 pairing in Buffalo. 

Also, Power and Johnson are going to college this year. Only way that doesn't happen if the college season is canceled and both go to the AHL for a chunk. 

I believe that Johnson had been playing on the right side for Minnesota, He has a chance to break in to the Top 4 as a RHD 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

When are they going to sign Rasmus?

When does training camp start?

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

When are they going to sign Rasmus?

When does training camp start?

Now that the arbitration cases are over my guess is RFAs signing will pick up.  Training camps will open in a few weeks (9/15 or so).  Preseason starts 9/28.  Regular season 10/14.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Now that the arbitration cases are over my guess is RFAs signing will pick up.  Training camps will open in a few weeks (9/15 or so).  Preseason starts 9/28.  Regular season 10/14.

 

No Sabre filed for arbitration, right?  I don't think any of our RFAs qualify yet.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

No Sabre filed for arbitration, right?  I don't think any of our RFAs qualify yet.

none.  Arbitration ended on the 26th I believe.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 8/11/2021 at 8:34 AM, Thorny said:

I'd bet Miller and Pysyk start as they fill out the right shots.

Dahlin/Jokijarju obvious locks

So Hagg and Butcher in a competition with Samuelsson and Bryson for bottom 2/3rds of the left side. Though realistically there'll be injuries anyways. 

If DG goes with the vets over the kids, KA's acquisitions would have blocked two kids and give us a starting 6 of

Dahlin Jokiharju

Hagg Miller

Butcher Pysyk

That's hard to look at.