Defense in 2022-23 & Beyond

[Norcal]

17 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Power should be at Michigan this year. Let him play on a powerhouse, play in the WJCs, play in the Frozen Four. He needs development and Michigan is the best option for next season.  Throwing him onto this team that won't be competitive at 18 is a big mistake.  Take it slow with him and it will payoff down the road.

Yep. Let him be a kid a little longer and do all the things that kids do.

Especially since his first  college year was under strenuous circumstances. He will be better off far away from this years team. 

[In The Buff]

All you guys are slotting Jokiharju with Dahlin but I'd prefer to see them split up. I'd like more balance across the lines where theres a stay at home defender paired with each. Where Dahlin can be Dahlin where he has the freedom to be Dahlin & his defensive pair can cover for him & do the things Dahlin cant... like adding a physical element to the other side. Then Jokiharju can be the main puck mover on the other pairing & have the same thing for him. If they're both paired together it seems 1 is being wasted to a degree, since they both cant be moving the puck thru the neutral zone at the same time or making an offensive play down low.

I haven't really looked at potential lines tbh just because of the State of the Franchise right now. Maybe Joki & Dahlin are just the best we can put together from what we have, but ideally i'd like that balance in our pairings & for each to have freedom to play to their strengths. Idk if that makes sense lol

 

[LGR4GM]

Personally I would put Jokiharju with Samuelsson. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, In The Buff said:

All you guys are slotting Jokiharju with Dahlin but I'd prefer to see them split up. I'd like more balance across the lines where theres a stay at home defender paired with each. Where Dahlin can be Dahlin where he has the freedom to be Dahlin & his defensive pair can cover for him & do the things Dahlin cant... like adding a physical element to the other side. Then Jokiharju can be the main puck mover on the other pairing & have the same thing for him. If they're both paired together it seems 1 is being wasted to a degree, since they both cant be moving the puck thru the neutral zone at the same time or making an offensive play down low.

I haven't really looked at potential lines tbh just because of the State of the Franchise right now. Maybe Joki & Dahlin are just the best we can put together from what we have, but ideally i'd like that balance in our pairings & for each to have freedom to play to their strengths. Idk if that makes sense lol

 

Really do not like Jokiharju and Dahlin together.   Glad to see somebody else in the club.  😉   They're very similar in where their strengths and weaknesses lie.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Really do not like Jokiharju and Dahlin together.   Glad to see somebody else in the club.  😉   They're very similar in where their strengths and weaknesses lie.

Im in that club. Samuelsson with Jokiharju if he can hack it. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Then who do we put with Rasmus II?

Miller, or Pysyk?

Maybe someone from the dregs?

I think Miller.

[Digger]

I think Mattias Samuelsson should make the team this year.  It would be ideal to get him a year of experience before Owen Power comes to the team next season.  He needs to earn it but I think we can really use his size and talent.  

I'm not sure who to pair with Dahlin.  He did look good with Jokiharju at the end of last season.  I do understand the arguments for splitting them up, but if we do who can play with Dahlin.  It just feels like we are missing a nice RD still in the lineup who he could pair with.

[Andrew Amerk]

7 hours ago, In The Buff said:

All you guys are slotting Jokiharju with Dahlin but I'd prefer to see them split up. I'd like more balance across the lines where theres a stay at home defender paired with each. Where Dahlin can be Dahlin where he has the freedom to be Dahlin & his defensive pair can cover for him & do the things Dahlin cant... like adding a physical element to the other side. Then Jokiharju can be the main puck mover on the other pairing & have the same thing for him. If they're both paired together it seems 1 is being wasted to a degree, since they both cant be moving the puck thru the neutral zone at the same time or making an offensive play down low.

I haven't really looked at potential lines tbh just because of the State of the Franchise right now. Maybe Joki & Dahlin are just the best we can put together from what we have, but ideally i'd like that balance in our pairings & for each to have freedom to play to their strengths. Idk if that makes sense lol

 

 

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Really do not like Jokiharju and Dahlin together.   Glad to see somebody else in the club.  😉   They're very similar in where their strengths and weaknesses lie.

I agree with both of you that Dahlin and Joki should be split, assuming the team has 2 defensively responsible partners for both of them (which I’m not sure is the case at the moment). 

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/makeover-of-sabres-defense-headlined-by-additions-of-will-butcher-mark-pysyk/article_96db7b68-f139-11eb-9740-a7b003c2094c.html

Calling Butcher and Pysyk a "Makeover" of the Sabres D is a very large stretch.  Hagg will likely log more ice time then Pysyk.

Quote

Among Sabres defensemen since 2014-15, Ristolainen and McCabe rank first and second, respectively, in penalty-kill ice time, total ice time, hits and blocked shots. 

Quote

But no one in the Sabres’ new group has the same bruising style of play as Ristolainen or McCabe. The two trade acquisitions, Butcher and Hagg, will be counted on to provide some of what Buffalo lost.

... and this is a positive makeover?

Quote

Adams’ plan will produce grim results if Dahlin and Jokiharju don’t take another significant step under Granato.

Ain't that a huge understatement.  IMHO if Bryson and Samuelsson don't outplay Butcher, Miller, Hagg and Pysyk, I'll be surprised.

[nfreeman]

I think Samuelsson will be in the top 6 by New Year's, I like Bryson and I have never been a fan of Pysyk's.

So:

LD   -   RD

Dahlin-Jokiharju 

Butcher-Miller

Samuelsson-Hagg

Bryson

Pysyk

Hagg moves over to his off hand as Samuelsson forces his way into the lineup.

 

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think Samuelsson will be in the top 6 by New Year's, I like Bryson and I have never been a fan of Pysyk's.

So:

LD   -   RD

Dahlin-Jokiharju 

Butcher-Miller

Samuelsson-Hagg

Bryson

Pysyk

Hagg moves over to his off hand as Samuelsson forces his way into the lineup.

 

Samuelsson is my beacon of light on this roster.  I think he forces his way onto the team in training camp.

[dudacek]

I remember when I was the only Samuelsson fan on here.

Glad to see he made a good impression

 

[nfreeman]

20 minutes ago, Weave said:

Samuelsson is my beacon of light on this roster.  I think he forces his way onto the team in training camp.

I can see this happening but wasn't confident enough to predict it.

 

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I remember when I was the only Samuelsson fan on here.

Glad to see he made a good impression

 

I thought his play was solid last year if unspectacular and he generally gave me the impression of quiet, rock-solid backstopping strength.  I've also heard a couple of his coaches -- I can't recall who it was specifically -- interviewed about him and they raved about him and said they expect him to be in the NHL next year.

He might be one of the young guys that low-key becomes an important part of the rebuild.

[Carmel Corn]

On 7/31/2021 at 1:52 PM, LGR4GM said:

Personally I would put Jokiharju with Samuelsson. 

I agree with this 100%.  To be honest...I didn't care for the Dahlin/Joki pairing.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

25 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I remember when I was the only Samuelsson fan on here.

Glad to see he made a good impression

 

I think he could be this teams Korab.  Maybe even Schoenfeld.

[triumph_communes]

If Hagg plays at all we’re losing

 

Butcher-Pysyk is a bottom pairing. 
 

Jokiharju is good but can’t handle top minutes and match ups, at least yet. This is where someone like Samuelson comes in and shines. 

[Digger]

9 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

If Hagg plays at all we’re losing

 

Butcher-Pysyk is a bottom pairing. 
 

Jokiharju is good but can’t handle top minutes and match ups, at least yet. This is where someone like Samuelson comes in and shines. 

I don't know but Hagg did have some injuries last season and he'll be playing on a new team and will be a UFA at the end of this season.  I would expect him to play much better this season assuming he's healthy.  We'll see but I bet he plays.  

Who's playing with Dahlin if we move Jokiharju away from him as his D partner?

[Weave]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I remember when I was the only Samuelsson fan on here.

Glad to see he made a good impression

 

The first I’ve seen him play was end of last season.  Color me impressed.  He’s a friggin mule on skates.

[GASabresIUFAN]

For all KA's talk about not blocking the kids it seems that he has actually done the opposite to a certain extent with the defense.

We ended last year with a back end of Dahlin, Risto, Miller, Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Bryson.  If I remember correctly,  Samuelsson and Bryson both graded out analytically pretty well last season, but those 2 seem to be getting the short end of the stick based on KA's roster moves this off-season.

Risto had been traded and replaced by Hagg.  KA then signed Pysyk and traded for Butcher.  Pysyk was signed to add depth on the right side.  Butcher was signed to add offense.  I'm assuming both are in the top 6 to open the season.  If that happens either Bryson or Samuelsson are going back to the minors.  I also think KA grabbed Hagg to add a more physical element to our team.  Hagg had 100 hits in only 34 games last season.  Also in our new economic model, KA isn't pay 1.7 to Hagg or 2.8 to Butcher to sit on the bench (at least initially).  My guess is these moves may block both kids from playing in the NHL to start next season and I have to ask, given the team's mantra of youth and economy, why block two of our better young D.

[LabattBlue]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

For all KA's talk about not blocking the kids it seems that he has actually done the opposite to a certain extent with the defense.

We ended last year with a back end of Dahlin, Risto, Miller, Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Bryson.  If I remember correctly,  Samuelsson and Bryson both graded out analytically pretty well last season, but those 2 seem to be getting the short end of the stick based on KA's roster moves this off-season.

Risto had been traded and replaced by Hagg.  KA then signed Pysyk and traded for Butcher.  Pysyk was signed to add depth on the right side.  Butcher was signed to add offense.  I'm assuming both are in the top 6 to open the season.  If that happens either Bryson or Samuelsson are going back to the minors.  I also think KA grabbed Hagg to add a more physical element to our team.  Hagg had 100 hits in only 34 games last season.  Also in our new economic model, KA isn't pay 1.7 to Hagg or 2.8 to Butcher to sit on the bench (at least initially).  My guess is these moves may block both kids from playing in the NHL to start next season and I have to ask, given the team's mantra of youth and economy, why block two of our better young D.

It was a dumb thing to say by KA.  There is no way you can ice a lineup of inexperience every game.  They will get caved in on most nights, and IMO that is not a positive in terms of player development. 

Edited August 10, 2021 by LabattBlue

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

It was a dumb thing to say by KA.  There is no way you can ice a lineup of  inexperience every game.  They will get caved in on most nights, and IMO that is not a positive in terms of player development. 

Like I have to power to fire RK when he didn't.  Like when he said he likes our goaltending situation last year and again this off-season.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

For all KA's talk about not blocking the kids it seems that he has actually done the opposite to a certain extent with the defense.

We ended last year with a back end of Dahlin, Risto, Miller, Jokiharju, Samuelsson and Bryson.  If I remember correctly,  Samuelsson and Bryson both graded out analytically pretty well last season, but those 2 seem to be getting the short end of the stick based on KA's roster moves this off-season.

Risto had been traded and replaced by Hagg.  KA then signed Pysyk and traded for Butcher.  Pysyk was signed to add depth on the right side.  Butcher was signed to add offense.  I'm assuming both are in the top 6 to open the season.  If that happens either Bryson or Samuelsson are going back to the minors.  I also think KA grabbed Hagg to add a more physical element to our team.  Hagg had 100 hits in only 34 games last season.  Also in our new economic model, KA isn't pay 1.7 to Hagg or 2.8 to Butcher to sit on the bench (at least initially).  My guess is these moves may block both kids from playing in the NHL to start next season and I have to ask, given the team's mantra of youth and economy, why block two of our better young D.

If last year's finish was any indication, Hagg, Butcher and Pysyk (and following that, even Miller) are hardly blocks, more like insurance.

A "block" implies an actual no-debate no-scratch NHLer, like McCabe. All four of our veterans were basically functioning as their team's 6/7 last year. Granato will not hesitate to sit any of them in favour of Samuelsson or Bryson. They are four pending UFAs essentially with their careers on the line — two of whom were given away. There is no incentive to give any of them opportunities they don't earn.

At the same time, he won't hesitate to have Samuelsson or Bryson doing their learning in Rochester if they aren't earning top 6 minutes in Buffalo over the competition.

I think the money is irrelevant. The Sabres haven't even reached the cap floor yet, the contracts are small, and each player is getting paid regardless of the six on the ice.

Edited August 10, 2021 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If last year's finish was any indication, Hagg, Butcher and Pysyk (and following that, even Miller) are hardly blocks, more like insurance.

A "block" implies an actual no-debate no-scratch NHLer, like McCabe. All four of our veterans were basically functioning as their team's 6/7 last year. Granato will not hesitate to sit any of them in favour of Samuelsson or Bryson. They are four pending UFAs essentially with their careers on the line — two of whom were given away. There is no incentive to give any of them opportunities they don't earn.

At the same time, he won't hesitate to have Samuelsson or Bryson doing their learning in Rochester if they aren't earning top 6 minutes in Buffalo over the competition.

I think the money is irrelevant. The Sabres haven't even reached the cap floor yet, the contracts are small, and each player is getting paid regardless of the six on the ice.

They have reached the cap floor once the RFAs are re-signed.  They'll be at able 62 mill.  

Insurance is a fair word.  Conceptually that's fine, except each of the new guys brings something specific to the lineup that KA wants.  Butcher brings speed and offense, Pysyk a RHD and Hagg physical play.  I can accept Hagg might be insurance for Samuelsson, but Butcher is simply a more experienced version of Bryson.  To me it's clearly saying he thinks Bryson isn't ready.  

[bob_sauve28]

On 8/5/2021 at 9:04 PM, New Scotland (NS) said:

I think he could be this teams Korab.  Maybe even Schoenfeld.

Bill Hajt 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Bill Hajt 

Maybe, but I see more offensive upside, therefore Korab.  Korab was a big and tough as nails defender, especially in front of our net, but also could contribute on the score sheet.