Linus Ullmark: signs with Boston Bruins

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

That likely played a part.  Back to KA, we just don't know what the communication was from his agent.   If he needed much more money and term to endure the losing and potential risk of tarnishing his value until things can get better,  it may have been the prudent thing to not go that far.  Even though the immediate alternative is awful. 

Look at it objectively though. If you are Ullmark, are you going to take 6 or even 7 million from the losers (hypothetically saying even if they went that high which I doubt) or 5 million to go play on a winner where the players all love it there and the fans love them with a passion? I know that extra few million wouldn't mean anything to me if I was him. 

[SDS]

I didn’t say this prior to today, but my feeling about Ullmark was that he was a trap. We’re in a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation.

He was both our best shot to win now, but he’s not a player I would want to bet on in the long term. 

Maybe this should not be considered due to the amount of cap space we have, but we go through this all the time with bad contracts then nobody cares about in the short term, in that within two years we are screaming at such bad decisions.

[7+6=13]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

Look at it objectively though. If you are Ullmark, are you going to take 6 or even 7 million from the losers (hypothetically saying even if they went that high which I doubt) or 5 million to go play on a winner where the players all love it there and the fans love them with a passion? I know that extra few million wouldn't mean anything to me if I was him. 

Totally agree and exactly my point.  With the added comment that I wouldn't want KA to pay him more with more term.  Overpaying to keep decent players at some point has to stop.  There's just no good way out of this except to wait for all these young players to define what we'll be.

[miles]

i bet ullmark becomes top in the league if he gets a chance to play

[7+6=13]

Just now, SDS said:

I didn’t say this prior to today, but my feeling about Ullmark was that he was a trap. We’re in a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation.

He was both our best shot to win now, but he’s not a player I would want to bet on in the long term. 

Maybe this should not be considered due to the amount of cap space we have, but we go through this all the time with bad contracts then nobody cares about in the short term, in that within two years we are screaming at such bad decisions.

Perfectly said.

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, 7+6=13 said:

Totally agree and exactly my point.  With the added comment that I wouldn't want KA to pay him more with more term.  Overpaying to keep decent players at some point has to stop.  There's just no good way out of this except to wait for all these young players to define what we'll be.

I agree but imo there's one missing component. You need a few solid (perhaps past their prime so you can get them, but with the right attitude/style) veterans added to the young roster to teach, act as mentors, lead, show them the way. Without that, the culture will be harder to rebuild. and they didn't add that. 

[lothar]

9 minutes ago, SDS said:

I didn’t say this prior to today, but my feeling about Ullmark was that he was a trap. We’re in a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation.

He was both our best shot to win now, but he’s not a player I would want to bet on in the long term. 

Maybe this should not be considered due to the amount of cap space we have, but we go through this all the time with bad contracts then nobody cares about in the short term, in that within two years we are screaming at such bad decisions.

It's possible. But are we setting up our new core for another round of learning to lose and be gobsmacked by everybody in the meantime? A better than average goalie does still steal you wins as you build up a foundation.

We're still probably the worst team in the league but I'd rather not destroy another new core by making every game hopeless with the worst goaltending in the league to boot.

Edited July 29, 2021 by lothar

[nucci]

9 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Totally agree and exactly my point.  With the added comment that I wouldn't want KA to pay him more with more term.  Overpaying to keep decent players at some point has to stop.  There's just no good way out of this except to wait for all these young players to define what we'll be.

you can't just rely on young draft picks to build your team. Veteran free agents help the younger players. 

[darksabre]

9 minutes ago, SDS said:

I didn’t say this prior to today, but my feeling about Ullmark was that he was a trap. We’re in a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation.

He was both our best shot to win now, but he’s not a player I would want to bet on in the long term. 

Maybe this should not be considered due to the amount of cap space we have, but we go through this all the time with bad contracts then nobody cares about in the short term, in that within two years we are screaming at such bad decisions.

The problem is goalie purgatory. Ullmark was good enough to keep us out of that area, and that's really all you need. Obviously we'll need to see what the goalie situation ends up looking like, but being back in purgatory again feels like a real possiblity, and I can't abide that.

[SDS]

35 minutes ago, lothar said:

It's possible. But are we setting up our new core for another round of learning to lose and be gobsmacked by everybody in the meantime? A better than average goalie does still steal you wings as you build up a foundation.

We're still probably the worst team in the league but I'd rather not destroy another new core by making every game hopeless with the worst goaltending in the league to boot.

Regardless of what people may think of Adams, we have to give a little deference to Granato right? Don may not be in charge of acquiring players but I am assuming they’re all working together. I don’t know what the plan is. I think we’re missing a massive amount of key information here and we are all reacting to something we don’t know about.

Maybe it’s as simple as Terry and Kim pulling all their cash back. Maybe there are trades to be had in the future. I don’t know. I’m willing to give this new group a shot.

Let me just point out that a couple years ago most people on this board jumped all over my ***** when I said it wasn’t the Bills plan to win that certain year and they were clearing the cap. Everyone here wanted everyone fired. Everyone associated with the Bills were incompetent. And look where they are now.

30 minutes ago, darksabre said:

The problem is goalie purgatory. Ullmark was good enough to keep us out of that area, and that's really all you need. Obviously we'll need to see what the goalie situation ends up looking like, but being back in purgatory again feels like a real possiblity, and I can't abide that.

I get that. There’s a certain amount of intestinal fortitude on their part that needs to take place with their strategy so far. 

[In The Buff]

4 minutes ago, lothar said:

It's possible. But are we setting up our new core for another round of learning to lose and be gobsmacked by everybody in the meantime? A better than average goalie does still steal you wings as you build up a foundation.

We're still probably the worst team in the league but I'd rather not destroy another new core by making every game hopeless with the worst goaltending in the league to boot.

Yeah i dont think any of us would think that Linus was worth more than $5-6mil per or would even want to sign him to a long term deal.

Its more imo the total lack of addressing the position at all. After needing to address it last year as well.

And since we appear to be tanking next year & starting fresh, if we don't add in some veteran help & solid goaltending, we would be repeating the same mistakes of the past & haven't learned anything... Probably destined to be in this exact same position again years from now too. Thats the infuriating part for me.

Not learning from our mistakes... mistakes that we've all suffered thru.

 

[Zamboni]

15 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

i bet ullmark becomes top in the league if he gets a chance to play

[7+6=13]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I agree but imo there's one missing component. You need a few solid (perhaps past their prime so you can get them, but with the right attitude/style) veterans added to the young roster to teach, act as mentors, lead, show them the way. Without that, the culture will be harder to rebuild. and they didn't add that. 

We're in the same line of thinking.  Only thing is,  that's extremely difficult to do.   Players with those type of qualities aren't going to come here easily.   Those are exactly the type of players contenders are also looking for.   Towards the end of their careers, cost controlled but still have enough game to play well.  How do we get them here?

To add, we got poor leadership from our best players.  Yes the losing wore players down but it was a toxic mix.  It's just got to be redone. 

[LGR4GM]

It's cute ppl think we have been bad because "culture of losing" and not because we haven't built depth or drafted well in 20 years. 

Oh and no, it's not both. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

Regardless of what people may think of Adams, we have to give a little deference to Granato right? Dan may not be in charge of acquiring players but I am assuming they’re all working together. I don’t know what the plan is. I think we’re missing a massive amount of key information here and we are all reacting to something we don’t know about.

Maybe it’s as simple as Terry and Kim pulling all their cash back. Maybe there are trades to be had in the future. I don’t know. I’m willing to give this new group a shot.

Come on, it's obvious now. The plan is UPL. and they don't care if he fails. If he fails high picks added and if he's destroyed he was Botterill's and they move on to Levi. If by some miracle he succeeds under the onslaught, well that's fine too, they look like geniuses. That's the "plan" as dumb as it seems. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

It's cute ppl think we have been bad because "culture of losing" and not because we haven't built depth or drafted well in 20 years. 

Oh and no, it's not both. 

You never played hockey so you don't get it. Fair enough, but it's true. It is a culture of losing. and it does matter. 

[Thorner]

ding ding ding!

round 1

[LGR4GM]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

You never played hockey so you don't get it. Fair enough, but it's true. It is a culture of losing. and it does matter. 

Haha, right... the complete lack of talent behind Eichel and Sam wasn't the reason. It was the losing culture. 

Losing culture is what excuse is used when a team full of less talented ppl aren't good. 

Also "you never played hockey" 

Thanks Craig Rivet, glad you've come to Sabrespace to shine up those turd takes of yours. 

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Haha, right... the complete lack of talent behind Eichel and Sam wasn't the reason. It was the losing culture. 

Losing culture is what excuse is used when a team full of less talented ppl aren't good. 

I don't really want to argue with you about this. I'm really pissed off and bummed out about this team today and if we get into it I'm going to unleash on you as a scapegoat so whatever. You don't understand that there's more to the game than just "talent" that's fine. You're really wrong, but again, whatever. 

[7+6=13]

9 minutes ago, nucci said:

you can't just rely on young draft picks to build your team. Veteran free agents help the younger players. 

Of course but that may be the most difficult thing in the NHL to do and times that by whatever for us.  Who's coming here unless they're washed up and have little options elsewhere? Especially when there's now a complete reset at what little we had/have at the top.

 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, SDS said:

I didn’t say this prior to today, but my feeling about Ullmark was that he was a trap. We’re in a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation.

He was both our best shot to win now, but he’s not a player I would want to bet on in the long term. 

Maybe this should not be considered due to the amount of cap space we have, but we go through this all the time with bad contracts then nobody cares about in the short term, in that within two years we are screaming at such bad decisions.

On a 4 year deal, because of where they are in the rebuild, there is no way you can have buyers remorse on anymore than 2 years and likely onlyn1 at most and that's even if Ullmark pulls a total Skinner.  There's actually a very real possibility the contract looks like a deal by year 4.

They should've been able to lock up the goaltending with 2 capable players for $12MM/yr or less.

Having the most important position covering 17% of ice time for only ~12% of the cap (and going down each year) should be a no brainer IMHO.

In year 4 at latest likely 1 of the 3 prospects will be ready to be the backup & his price tab even with hitting on maximum bonuses he only costs <$3MM/year.  Buying out 1 of the $6MM goalies (the absolute realistic worst case scenario) still keeps the total cost of goaltending at/under $12MM.

Get what you're saying about Linus because he really reminds me of Biron skill level wise.  But he really strikes me as a glue guy like Marty as well, so don't see the "trap" being that debilitating.

And don't underestimate how freeing contractwise them doing this friggin' rebuild is.  For the next 2 years, Jeff Skinner's contract doesn't limit Adams in any way whatsoever.  And that may still be true 3 years from now.  The 6 bad remaining years are down to only 3 or 4.  Okposo's contract doesn't matter at all.  Nor does Eakin's.

Had Linus been due the big raise last year; yep, it might've been a trap.  But had they jumped into his and Reinhart's traps; we might even been looking at making a play on Danault rather than Cagjula (sp?).

[Huckleberry]

Maybe we can hold a goalie lottery each game ? 

Sabres fans can pay 5 dollar, if they win they start next game 🙂

Nice revenue for team.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't really want to argue with you about this. I'm really pissed off and bummed out about this team today and if we get into it I'm going to unleash on you as a scapegoat so whatever. You don't understand that there's more to the game than just "talent" that's fine. You're really wrong, but again, whatever. 

You don't understand that you can't build a culture of winning if you don't have enough talent to win. It all starts there. You're really wrong, but again, whatever. 

[DarthEbriate]

After cleaning out Risto and Reino and sitting out free agency, we should have gotten a 1A/1B (say Ullmark at 6 and Raanta at 5). Big deal if we're overspending on goaltending... we're not spending elsewhere except Skinner for the next 2 years.

[7+6=13]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's cute ppl think we have been bad because "culture of losing" and not because we haven't built depth or drafted well in 20 years. 

Oh and no, it's not both. 

I agree and think that was the #1 issue since Sam was drafted.  We got nearly nothing from players through the system.  That's the travesty here.  We haven't iced a quality 2nd and 3rd line in years.  Free agency ain't fixing that.  It's literally too many spots.