Updated Sabres Prospect Pool 2021 and beyond

[GASabresIUFAN]

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/tapping-into-offensive-talent-may-have-sabres-prospect-ryan-johnson-on-cusp-of-pro-career/article_a2a06b4c-123c-11ec-be65-5f1b5018e74c.html

@LGR4GM   I thought you'd find this interesting.

We could see a much more O oriented Johnson this college campaign.

Some final thoughts on the prospect challenge.  Maybe had we drafted a center or 2 we wouldn't have to move a winger (Quinn) to center.  

However, I think JJP justified my high ranking for him and I obviously ranked Murray to low.  I'm really interested to se how JJP, Quinn. Murray and Weissbach develop this fall/winter in Rochester. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

59 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://buffalonews.com/sports/sabres/tapping-into-offensive-talent-may-have-sabres-prospect-ryan-johnson-on-cusp-of-pro-career/article_a2a06b4c-123c-11ec-be65-5f1b5018e74c.html

@LGR4GM   I thought you'd find this interesting.

We could see a much more O oriented Johnson this college campaign.

Some final thoughts on the prospect challenge.  Maybe had we drafted a center or 2 we wouldn't have to move a winger (Quinn) to center.  

However, I think JJP justified my high ranking for him and I obviously ranked Murray to low.  I'm really interested to se how JJP, Quinn. Murray and Weissbach develop this fall/winter in Rochester. 

 

 

They moved Quinn to center last season, with 9 & 23 still in the org.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

14 minutes ago, inkman said:

They moved Quinn to center last season, with 9 & 23 still in the org.  

What does that change?  Had they drafted a center or two, they wouldn't have had to experiment this season with Quinn as a center.  With Cozens and R2 in the NHL, who is our top center prospect(s)?  The only centers in the pipeline are 5th rd Costantini, 6th rd Von Barnekow, and 7th rounders Konecny and Kozak.  Odds against any of these four ever playing a minute in the NHL are significant.  It's even more unlikely that any of the 4 even become NHL regulars.

Edited September 21, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What does that change?  Had they drafted a center or two, they wouldn't have had to experiment this season with Quinn as a center.  With Cozens and R2 in the NHL, who is our top center prospect(s)?  The only centers in the pipeline are 5th rd Costantini, 6th rd Von Barnekow, and 7th rounders Konecny and Kozak.  Odds against any of these four ever playing a minute in the NHL are significant.  It's even more unlikely that any of the 4 even become NHL regulars.

Moving Quinn to center had nothing to do with anything other than Quinn

[LabattBlue]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What does that change?  Had they drafted a center or two, they wouldn't have had to experiment this season with Quinn as a center.  With Cozens and R2 in the NHL, who is our top center prospect(s)?  The only centers in the pipeline are 5th rd Costantini, 6th rd Von Barnekow, and 7th rounders Konecny and Kozak.  Odds against any of these four ever playing a minute in the NHL are significant.  It's even more unlikely that any of the 4 even become NHL regulars.

I'm guessing either a center prospect comes back in a John trade, or the 1st round pick next season is used on one....not to mention one or two more later in the draft.

 

Unless they flame out, Mitts, Cozens, R2 & Girgs will probably be the center spine for the next two seasons.

Edited September 21, 2021 by LabattBlue

[Thorner]

19 hours ago, inkman said:

They moved Quinn to center last season, with 9 & 23 still in the org.  

Jives with the rumours that KA was shopping JE for a good long while, since coming aboard, in fact

19 hours ago, inkman said:

Moving Quinn to center had nothing to do with anything other than Quinn

 

[Thorner]

19 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I'm guessing either a center prospect comes back in a John trade, or the 1st round pick next season is used on one....not to mention one or two more later in the draft.

 

Unless they flame out, Mitts, Cozens, R2 & Girgs will probably be the center spine for the next two seasons.

Pidgeon-holing themselves into needing to forgo BPA next year for position is something I find questionable, too - but no doubt they need to go that route at this point

[LGR4GM]

22 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Bakers tweet and the Sabres draft history suggest it's Nikita Novikov.  Drafted 188 overall. 

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005054.html

 

21 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Yeah, but if you watch the video the player with Kisakov is Nikonov , a different player. That is why I wondered who he is.

Nikita Novikov is not on the same team as Kisakov. Novikov plays for Dynamo in the KHL currently (which is impressive for a just turned 18yr old defender). Kisakov plays in the MHL for Dynamo which is basically the difference between the OHL and the NHL. Russia has MLH, VHL, KHL in that order. 

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Pidgeon-holing themselves into needing to forgo BPA next year for position is something I find questionable, too - but no doubt they need to go that route at this point

Next years draft is loaded at center. It won't be an issue. Wright, Savoie, Lambert, Geekie, Cooley, Nazar, Hughes, etc... 

[Thorner]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Nikita Novikov is not on the same team as Kisakov. Novikov plays for Dynamo in the KHL currently (which is impressive for a just turned 18yr old defender). Kisakov plays in the MHL for Dynamo which is basically the difference between the OHL and the NHL. Russia has MLH, VHL, KHL in that order. 

Next years draft is loaded at center. It won't be an issue. Wright, Savoie, Lambert, Geekie, Cooley, Nazar, Hughes, etc... 

Rossi....Lundell...etc 

I understand it appears to be loaded at C but all it takes is an similarly talented winger or D being in range and a strict adherence to "BPA" for it to become an issue 

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Rossi....Lundell...etc 

I understand it appears to be loaded at C but all it takes is an similarly talented winger or D being in range and a strict adherence to "BPA" for it to become an issue 

We should just stop using BPA and thinking position doesn't impact that at all. Actually we should stop saying BPA at all because we have no idea what a team to team qualification is for that. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

20 hours ago, inkman said:

Moving Quinn to center had nothing to do with anything other than Quinn

Sorry, that doesn't work.  You don't experiment with a kid to his non-natural position unless you have no choice.  

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We should just stop using BPA and thinking position doesn't impact that at all. Actually we should stop saying BPA at all because we have no idea what a team to team qualification is for that. 

Been saying that for years.  

Edited September 22, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[inkman]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Sorry, that doesn't work.  You don't experiment with a kid to his non-natural position unless you have a choice.  

Been saying that for years.  

Sorry, that doesn’t work for you.  Maybe it’s a fools errand but I’m willing to have an open mind about it.  

[K-9]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

Sorry, that doesn’t work for you.  Maybe it’s a fools errand but I’m willing to have an open mind about it.  

But it’s just so much easier to think the Sabres coaches are clueless, that Quinn couldn’t possibly possess a hint of C qualities worth exploring at the BEST time to do that, in camp. I mean it’s not like everyone involved in player development has had a year to observe the kid on the ice and off. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

But it’s just so much easier to think the Sabres coaches are clueless, that Quinn couldn’t possibly possess a hint of C qualities worth exploring at the BEST time to do that, in camp. I mean it’s not like everyone involved in player development has had a year to observe the kid on the ice and off. 

What in the last decade has given you any indication that this team has any idea what they are doing?  Had we done a better job of draft and developing, we might even have a good team by now. 

The latest genius to inhabit the GM's office, KA, has drafted 7 wingers and 1 D in the 1st 3 rounds of the last 2 drafts.  In addition to not drafting centers, we have a pipeline with zero quality centers outside of guys who have graduated to full time NHL duty.  

Simply put we lack talent at center in the pipeline.  Am I not surprised that are experimenting with one of the wingers at center.  No I'm not surprised.  My point is it wouldn't be necessary has management done their job properly in the first place.  Quinn was drafted to be a sniper and that is what he should be doing.  Had they wanted a center they should have drafted Rossi or Perfetti.  

Honestly this experiment is further proof that they don't have a clue.

[K-9]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What in the last decade has given you any indication that this team has any idea what they are doing?  Had we done a better job of draft and developing, we might even have a good team by now. 

The latest genius to inhabit the GM's office, KA, has drafted 7 wingers and 1 D in the 1st 3 rounds of the last 2 drafts.  In addition to not drafting centers, we have a pipeline with zero quality centers outside of guys who have graduated to full time NHL duty.  

Simply put we lack talent at center in the pipeline.  Am I not surprised that are experimenting with one of the wingers at center.  No I'm not surprised.  My point is it wouldn't be necessary has management done their job properly in the first place.  Quinn was drafted to be a sniper and that is what he should be doing.  Had they wanted a center they should have drafted Rossi or Perfetti.  

Honestly this experiment is further proof that they don't have a clue.

Nothing this team has done over the last 10 years has given any indication they know what they’re doing and all the questions regarding KA’s lack of drafting success are legit until those drafts bear fruit or not.

But that’s not within the control of the coaching staff and until I have proof this current coaching group also doesn’t have a clue, then I have no problem with them getting a look at players at different positions at the time it’s best to do so, early in camp and preseason. I don’t get the impression they are forcing square pegs here. Instead, I believe that Quinn has shown them enough of something to at least take a look and satisfy their curiosity. I just don’t see that as a negative.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Nothing this team has done over the last 10 years has given any indication they know what they’re doing and all the questions regarding KA’s lack of drafting success are legit until those drafts bear fruit or not.

But that’s not within the control of the coaching staff and until I have proof this current coaching group also doesn’t have a clue, then I have no problem with them getting a look at players at different positions at the time it’s best to do so, early in camp and preseason. I don’t get the impression they are forcing square pegs here. Instead, I believe that Quinn has shown them enough of something to at least take a look and satisfy their curiosity. I just don’t see that as a negative.

It's not a negative. I'm simply saying had management done their jobs properly this experiment wouldn't be necessary. My comments are not an indictment of Quinn, but a criticism of the organization.

Edited September 22, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

GA's conclusion is based on his assumption that Quinn is being put at center because we don't have centers. I believe something different. Quinn is being played at center because they want him to get more touches with the puck and his 2way game is strong enough for him to succeed there at least in the AHL. It isn't a reaction to KA not drafting centers but to developing Quinn by giving him more puck control and responsibility. 

23 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The latest genius to inhabit the GM's office, KA, has drafted 7 wingers and 1 D in the 1st 3 rounds of the last 2 drafts.  In addition to not drafting centers, we have a pipeline with zero quality centers outside of guys who have graduated to full time NHL duty.  

 

In 2020 Adams only drafted Quinn and Peterka in the first 3 rounds. In 2021 the draft was notably devoid of centers and outside of perhaps Raty, they didn't pass on any of note. As always I find the criticism of the 2020 draft somewhat legit (I would have taken Rossi) and of the 2021 draft, completely bizarre. 

We've had this debate though and we don't agree so there really is no point in another rehash. 

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It's not a negative. I'm simply saying had management done their jobs properly this experiment wouldn't be necessary.

Yes it would have. Let's say they drafted 7 centers in 2021. None of them would be on the AHL team anyways. Your entire complaint rests on Quinn being taken over Rossi which is fine but stick to that. I do not believe Quinn is playing center because they don't have centers and they are forcing him into that spot. I think he is at center so he can get more touches and be the line driver in the AHL. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

GA's conclusion is based on his assumption that Quinn is being put at center because we don't have centers. I believe something different. Quinn is being played at center because they want him to get more touches with the puck and his 2way game is strong enough for him to succeed there at least in the AHL. It isn't a reaction to KA not drafting centers but to developing Quinn by giving him more puck control and responsibility. 

In 2020 Adams only drafted Quinn and Peterka in the first 3 rounds. In 2021 the draft was notably devoid of centers and outside of perhaps Raty, they didn't pass on any of note. As always I find the criticism of the 2020 draft somewhat legit (I would have taken Rossi) and of the 2021 draft, completely bizarre. 

We've had this debate though and we don't agree so there really is no point in another rehash. 

While this may be true it still flows from the lack of centers.  If Quinn had a good center to play with to get him the puck on a consistent basis I sincerely doubt he be playing center right now.

[LGR4GM]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

While this may be true it still flows from the lack of centers.  If Quinn had a good center to play with to get him the puck on a consistent basis I sincerely doubt he be playing center right now.

If the Sabres had used every single pick from 2021 on centers, none of them would be in the AHL this season to help Quinn out. Just like there is a lack of wingers in the AHL to help anyone out. The team has drafted bad for years and being all pissed off because they didn't draft a bunch a centers is missing the point. Or you think Peterka, Poltapov, Kisakov, and Rosen were bad picks. Quinn at least we can reasonably argue should have been Rossi. 

[LGR4GM]

The point is have the Sabres fixed their drafting? Early signs point to probably. They focused on the MHL because they played a full season and they could get stats as well as video from there. In 2021 that makes a lot of sense and they went for high end skill and high end motors. Next year if they again ignore the center position I am more than happy to get on the "they can't draft wagon" to no playoffsville. Right now though I think I see signs they are starting (not quite there) but starting to understand some things about drafting. 

They want aggressive wingers, with shots, who fearless and relentless attack the center of the ice. 

Idk what they want from their centers but I truly believe that the absurd 2022 draft will help answer that question. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If the Sabres had used every single pick from 2021 on centers, none of them would be in the AHL this season to help Quinn out. Just like there is a lack of wingers in the AHL to help anyone out. The team has drafted bad for years and being all pissed off because they didn't draft a bunch a centers is missing the point. Or you think Peterka, Poltapov, Kisakov, and Rosen were bad picks. Quinn at least we can reasonably argue should have been Rossi. 

 

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The point is have the Sabres fixed their drafting? Early signs point to probably. They focused on the MHL because they played a full season and they could get stats as well as video from there. In 2021 that makes a lot of sense and they went for high end skill and high end motors. Next year if they again ignore the center position I am more than happy to get on the "they can't draft wagon" to no playoffsville. Right now though I think I see signs they are starting (not quite there) but starting to understand some things about drafting. 

They want aggressive wingers, with shots, who fearless and relentless attack the center of the ice. 

Idk what they want from their centers but I truly believe that the absurd 2022 draft will help answer that question. 

As we have discussed, I think at least one of Poltapov, Kisakov and Rosen should have been a center.  I would have drafted Lucius or Svechkov over Rosen. 

I wanted JJP and agree that Rossi or Perfetti should have been the choice over Quinn. I agree that grabbing the talent out of the MHL last year was smart, but then they ignored making choices with updated info in the 3rd by going off the board for two more wingers.  Like Quinn here, there is also talk of Rosen being moved to center.  

Depth at center has been an issue with this organization since DR was in charge. It's been 20 years since we drafted and developed a good center not drafted in the 1st rd.  20 years.  That's a horrible track record and a primary reason we are where we are.  This organization never learns and I'm going to keep on harping on this until they actually fix the problem.  Trying to convert Rosen and Quinn is not fixing the problem.

[LGR4GM]

48 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

As we have discussed, I think at least one of Poltapov, Kisakov and Rosen should have been a center.  I would have drafted Lucius or Svechkov over Rosen. 

I wanted JJP and agree that Rossi or Perfetti should have been the choice over Quinn. I agree that grabbing the talent out of the MHL last year was smart, but then they ignored making choices with updated info in the 3rd by going off the board for two more wingers.  Like Quinn here, there is also talk of Rosen being moved to center.  

Depth at center has been an issue with this organization since DR was in charge. It's been 20 years since we drafted and developed a good center not drafted in the 1st rd.  20 years.  That's a horrible track record and a primary reason we are where we are.  This organization never learns and I'm going to keep on harping on this until they actually fix the problem.  Trying to convert Rosen and Quinn is not fixing the problem.

They aren't trying to convert them to center. Rosen isn't even in NA for one. Quinn isn't going to be an NHL center. 

For the record, I HATE how Perfetti plays hockey. He plays with a major lack of pace. 

[Digger]

With Quinn at Center, could it not also just be that they wanted a good option to play Peterka and Quinn together on the same line in the AHL?  At the prospects challenge they said Peterka prefers to play RW, Quinn too.  Quinn does have some creativity and defensive awareness to play center.  If it works out great, if not maybe Peterka tries LW for a bit or they end up playing on separate lines.

[inkman]

46 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They aren't trying to convert them to center. Rosen isn't even in NA for one. Quinn isn't going to be an NHL center. 

For the record, I HATE how Perfetti plays hockey. He plays with a major lack of pace. 

I loved everything you were saying until this.  I think the Sabres believe Quinn can play center at the next level.  If you don’t think so, then the whole thing falls apart. 

42 minutes ago, Digger said:

With Quinn at Center, could it not also just be that they wanted a good option to play Peterka and Quinn together on the same line in the AHL?  At the prospects challenge they said Peterka prefers to play RW, Quinn too.  Quinn does have some creativity and defensive awareness to play center.  If it works out great, if not maybe Peterka tries LW for a bit or they end up playing on separate lines.

They played him there last season.  

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, inkman said:

I loved everything you were saying until this.  I think the Sabres believe Quinn can play center at the next level.  If you don’t think so, then the whole thing falls apart. 

They played him there last season.  

This entire forum is over obsessed with Quinn playing center.