Updated Sabres Prospect Pool 2021 and beyond

[LGR4GM]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My eyes are blinking at full speed. Our pick was selected in the range where he was ranked. Maybe not for you but for me the Sabres made the right pick. Don't forget about Levi from the Reinhart trade.  

I had Rosen ranked 16th and his consolidated ranking was about 24-26th. 

Maybe not for me what? Saying a goalie was also in that range was the OP. 

41 minutes ago, JohnC said:

With no hesitation I preferred the Sabres taking the Russian forward instead of the goaltender. The Sabres have some goalies in the pipeline that are not far away from moving up to the big league. And Levi should also be added to the mix. If the Sabres would have used their second pick on a goalie it would have been another disappointment laid on top of a mountain of disappointments. I thought overall our front office did a good job in this draft. 

That's bad because at 14 they took a Swedish forward instead of a goaltender. 

36 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I simply disagree with him. And as both of us noted acquiring a goalie prospect in a trade would have made the selection of a goalie an even more dubious decision. 

That is not and was not my point. See below. 

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

This organization has a dearth of top line forwards in their system. You are entitled to your reasonable opinion. However, I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you and LGR on this issue. 

Here is the thing, you are wrong because Wallstedt and Cossa were first round picks that went in the range we also had a first round pick. You said "Also, because the Sabres were drafting so high in recent drafts the forwards who were drafted were rated higher than the goalie prospects" which is not correct as there were 2 goalie prospects that could have easily been taken at 14 and it would not have made anyone in national media or anywhere else that follows prospects think much of it. In fact at 15 Cossa was drafted.

The forward (Isak Rosen) and the goalies were rated in the same ballpark. That was and is my only point. I made no other comment on whether I like the Rosen pick or not, just that your OP about rating the goalies lower doesn't hold that much water with me. Consolidated ranking put Rosen in the 24ish range and Wallstedt in the 12-15 range. Cossa was about 24ish as well. Here is a consolidated ranking: https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/05/12/twcs-2021-consolidated-nhl-draft-rankings/

One last time, my point was that this sentence "the forwards who were drafted were rated higher than the goalie prospects" is not factual. Rated higher for the Sabres, obviously because they took Rosen but in general Wallstedt was rated higher and Cossa was even with Rosen. That was and is my only point, taking a goalie at 14 with Cossa and Wallstedt on the board would not have been strange to anyone. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I had Rosen ranked 16th and his consolidated ranking was about 24-26th. 

Maybe not for me what? Saying a goalie was also in that range was the OP. 

That's bad because at 14 they took a Swedish forward instead of a goaltender. 

That is not and was not my point. See below. 

Here is the thing, you are wrong because Wallstedt and Cossa were first round picks that went in the range we also had a first round pick. You said "Also, because the Sabres were drafting so high in recent drafts the forwards who were drafted were rated higher than the goalie prospects" which is not correct as there were 2 goalie prospects that could have easily been taken at 14 and it would not have made anyone in national media or anywhere else that follows prospects think much of it. In fact at 15 Cossa was drafted.

The forward (Isak Rosen) and the goalies were rated in the same ballpark. That was and is my only point. I made no other comment on whether I like the Rosen pick or not, just that your OP about rating the goalies lower doesn't hold that much water with me. Consolidated ranking put Rosen in the 24ish range and Wallstedt in the 12-15 range. Cossa was about 24ish as well. Here is a consolidated ranking: https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/05/12/twcs-2021-consolidated-nhl-draft-rankings/

One last time, my point was that this sentence "the forwards who were drafted were rated higher than the goalie prospects" is not factual. Rated higher for the Sabres, obviously because they took Rosen but in general Wallstedt was rated higher and Cossa was even with Rosen. That was and is my only point, taking a goalie at 14 with Cossa and Wallstedt on the board would not have been strange to anyone. 

Your preference is your preference. I am more than pleased that the Sabres took a forward instead of a goalie with their second pick. We have goalies in the pipeline. In addition, we got Levi in the Reinhart trade. So he should be added to the pipeline As far as ratings go you know very well know that different teams and different rating services use different metrics and make different judgments. 

Again, I am more than pleased with the players we took in this draft. We simply disagree that the Sabres should have used a high draft choice on a goalie in this draft. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Your preference is your preference. I am more than pleased that the Sabres took a forward instead of a goalie with their second pick. We have goalies in the pipeline. In addition, we got Levi in the Reinhart trade. So he should be added to the pipeline As far as ratings go you know very well know that different teams and different rating services use different metrics and make different judgments. 

Again, I am more than pleased with the players we took in this draft. We simply disagree that the Sabres should have used a high draft choice on a goalie in this draft. 

It is not about preference so back and read it again. It was singularly about what you stated and the implication that there was not a goalie rated or ranked high enough to take at 14. That isn't true and the consolidated rankings coupled with the 2 goalies being taken with 5 picks of 14 back that up. 

You need to go back and read what I wrote because you simply do not get it and you are arguing nothing. You said this "the forwards who were drafted were rated higher than the goalie prospects" and that is not true and I proved why. The rest of what you have said up until this post is completely moot. Obviously the Sabres specifically liked Rosen (who is not Russian) over the goalies. That was not and has never been my point. 

To the bolded, holy shitake go read what I have said. Don't come back until you do. 

[inkman]

On 8/2/2021 at 10:10 AM, LGR4GM said:

I'm a little surprised Poltapov isn't there but Russia has tons of talent. He did play for their WJ18 team so this seems odd to me. Novikov is super young for his class so it would be more likely he be on the team next season if he makes it. Sardarian, was over drafted and isn't WJC level in terms of talent. 

[dudacek]

This is our depth chart of players 23 and under

 

CENTRE

• Dylan Cozens (20)
• Casey Mittelstadt (22)
• Arttu Ruotsalainen (23)
• Rasmus Asplund (23)
• Matej Pekar (21)
• Aaron Huglen (20)
• Matteo Constantini (18)
• Tyson Kozak (18)
• Jakub Konecny (19)

LEFT WING

• JJ Peterka (19)
• Prokhor Poltopov (18)
• Alexander Kisakov (18)
• Brett Murray (23)
• Josh Bloom (18)
• Linus Weisbach (23)
• Lukas Rousek (21)
• Viljami Marjala (18)
• Filip Cedarqvist (20)

RIGHT WING

• Tage Thompson (23)
• Jack Quinn (19)
• Isak Rosen (18)
• Stiven Sardarian (18)
• Oliver Nadeau (18)
• William Van Barnekow (18)

LEFT DEFENCE

• Rasmus Dahlin (21)
• Owen Power (18)
• Mattias Samuelsson (21)
• Ryan Johnson (20)
• Jacob Bryson (23)
• Linus Cronholm (21)
• William Worg-Kreu (21)
• Nikita Novikov (18)

RIGHT DEFENCE

• Henri Jokiharju (22)
• Oskari Laaksonen (22)
• Miska Kukkonen (21)
• Albert Lyacksen (20)

GOALIE

• Ukko-Pekka Lukkonnen (22)
• Erik Portillo (20)
• Devon Levi (19)

Edited August 10, 2021 by dudacek

[SwampD]

You spell funny.

[Hoss]

Oscari Laaksonen is a guy I think we might be underrated. I imagine he plays in Buffalo for at least part of this season.

[Thorner]

@dudacekgood list, minor but I think Huglen is a RW

- - - 

I like how we look at winger and LHD. Goalie is good in terms of prospect depth. RHD needs work and above all, centre. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

@dudacekgood list, minor but I think Huglen is a RW

- - - 

I like how we look at winger and LHD. Goalie is good in terms of prospect depth. RHD needs work and above all, centre. 

I thought Huglen was a wing as well, I know he was listed there when he drafted him, but capfriendly has him listed as a centre and eliteprospects as w/c.

Looks like he may have played a fair amount in the middle this past season in the USHL.

Edited August 11, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorner]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I thought Huglen was a wing as well, I know he was listed there when he drafted him, but capfriendly has him listed as a centre and eliteprospects as w/c.

Looks like he may have played a fair amount in the middle this past season in the USHL.

No wonder we didn't draft a C!

[LGR4GM]

On 8/10/2021 at 7:41 PM, Hoss said:

Oscari Laaksonen is a guy I think we might be underrated. I imagine he plays in Buffalo for at least part of this season.

Oscari Laaksonen should be David Farrance. 

[LGR4GM]

Anyways the real reason I am here. 

First, the top 50 prospects. Buffalo managed to get 2 players on the list, that's right just 2. Owen Power at #3 and Jack Quinn at #45. Players they Sabres should have on the list include Jonatan Berggren (we took Samuelsson) and Kaliyev, Robertson (Ryan Johnson), and David Farrance. The good news is that I think Rosen and Kisakov in particular are being undervalued currently and that isn't surprising considering last year was so strange. I would expect at least 1 if not 2 more Sabres to join this ranking next year even before we draft. Poltapov, Peterka, and the darkhorse Novikov who I absolutely love. Novikov is big (6'4") and young (just turned 18) and he skates well and smothers opponents. This year should be his coming out year.

https://theathletic.com/2723291/2021/08/16/nhl-top-50-prospects-2021-edition-byfield-caufield-and-power-headline-wheelers-drafted-skaters-ranking/

 

And now we get to some good news... better news? We are all worried about Goalies right? Well Scott Wheeler separates them out because it's just easier that way. So what is the good news? Only 10 goalies get ranked and we have the #10 goalie in... Erik Portillo. UPL gets a quick honorable mention as does Devon Levi. The biggest whiff is that the Sabres could have easily drafted #5 on this list, Dustin Wolf but instead we got Botterill trading 6th round picks for futures and some other bizarre crap. 

https://theathletic.com/2723299/2021/08/17/nhl-top-10-goalie-prospects-2021-edition-askarov-and-knight-lead-wheelers-ranking-of-the-best-drafted-goalies/

Quote

The last spot on this list came down to Portillo and fellow Sabres prospect Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen. I lean Portillo because I think his upside is higher at this point. He was in a weird situation in his freshman year at the University of Michigan because he had to play behind standout college hockey senior and captain Strauss Mann. But he has now played at a high level in Sweden’s junior ranks, the USHL and the NCAA. And I fully expect him to run with the job at Michigan this season, backstopping what should be one of the better teams in the country. Portillo is massive, with a 6-foot-6, 225-pound frame. But he has also honed a poised, deep-in-his net style that rarely sees him overcommit to shooters or caught in scrambles. When he’s dialed in, he takes away a shooter’s locations in the net and looks unbeatable. If he can eliminate some of the soft goals that find their way through, I see real upside in his game. He’s got impressive coordination and mobility for a goalie as big and heavy as he is.

 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Oscari Laaksonen should be David Farrance. 

Get help man 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Anyways the real reason I am here. 

First, the top 50 prospects. Buffalo managed to get 2 players on the list, that's right just 2. Owen Power at #3 and Jack Quinn at #45. Players they Sabres should have on the list include Jonatan Berggren (we took Samuelsson) and Kaliyev, Robertson (Ryan Johnson), and David Farrance. The good news is that I think Rosen and Kisakov in particular are being undervalued currently and that isn't surprising considering last year was so strange. I would expect at least 1 if not 2 more Sabres to join this ranking next year even before we draft. Poltapov, Peterka, and the darkhorse Novikov who I absolutely love. Novikov is big (6'4") and young (just turned 18) and he skates well and smothers opponents. This year should be his coming out year.

https://theathletic.com/2723291/2021/08/16/nhl-top-50-prospects-2021-edition-byfield-caufield-and-power-headline-wheelers-drafted-skaters-ranking/

 

And now we get to some good news... better news? We are all worried about Goalies right? Well Scott Wheeler separates them out because it's just easier that way. So what is the good news? Only 10 goalies get ranked and we have the #10 goalie in... Erik Portillo. UPL gets a quick honorable mention as does Devon Levi. The biggest whiff is that the Sabres could have easily drafted #5 on this list, Dustin Wolf but instead we got Botterill trading 6th round picks for futures and some other bizarre crap. 

https://theathletic.com/2723299/2021/08/17/nhl-top-10-goalie-prospects-2021-edition-askarov-and-knight-lead-wheelers-ranking-of-the-best-drafted-goalies/

 

I think Levi ends up being the best of the three. Absolutely loved the small sample size I saw from him. 

[pi2000]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I think Levi ends up being the best of the three. Absolutely loved the small sample size I saw from him. 

The good news w/ these prospects is they're lined up nicely... UPL is 22, Portillo 20, and Levi 19.     

If UPL flames out, Portillo will be ready to get his look, and then likewise with Levi.    No need to rush any of them.  

[Hoss]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Oscari Laaksonen should be David Farrance. 

We don’t know what either prospect’s future holds yet.

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:32 AM, LGR4GM said:

Oscari Laaksonen should be David Farrance. 

Don't act like Farrance was a sure thing.  He was a good USHLer his draft year that some rated as high as a mid 2nd rd pick.  However there was a reason every team passed on him twice and in some cases 3 times.`

On 8/17/2021 at 2:41 PM, Hoss said:

We don’t know what either prospect’s future holds yet.

You can always play the what if game.  What if the Sabres had taken Bossy instead on Seiling? etc.....

I thought at the time that Oskari was a huge reach, just like Bloom and Sardarian were this year.  However Laaksonen was a 3rd round pick and after being an AHL All-star last season is tracking toward an NHL future.  If you get a decent NHL players at the end of the 3rd round you've done your job.  Picks in around where Oskari was drafted have about an 18% chance of playing 100 games in the NHL.  Those are long odds, but so far Laaksonen looks like he'll beat those odds.

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

Just thought it would be good to add this in here for posterity sake.

The Athletic’s Corey Pronman ranks the Sabres U23 group as the best in the league, with 15 potential NHLers.

Projected elite/all-star bubble

1 Dahlin

Projected all-star

2 Power

All-star/top-of-lineup bubble

3 Cozens

Top-of-lineup/middle-lineup bubble

4 Mittelstadt

Middle of lineup

5 Peterka

6 Johnson

7 Jokiharju

8 Quinn

9 Rosen

10 Poltapov 

11 Levi

NHLer

12 Samuelsson

13 Kisakov

14 Lukkonnen

15 Nadeau

Has a Chance

Rousek

Laaksonen

Marjala

Novikov

Bloom

Pekar

Portillo

Notably not ranked

Huglen

Sardarian

Weissbach

[dudacek]

I think there are question marks around all four of the top players.

Dahlin really needs to step up in year 4 to be a team leader and show he’s more than an inconsistent great talent: I expect miscues, that seems to be part of his game. But I need to see fewer and more wow plays. Time to step up: 50 points, 24 minutes and more of a take-charge attitude.

I want Power to play like a #1 pick should against college competition and be the centrepiece of a dominant Michigan team. I also want him to the leader of Team Canada at the WJC. I’d like to see signs he is top-pair guy in the making and not just the safest choice in a difficult scouting year.

I love Dylan Cozens and the way he approaches the game but I need to see more physical development and signs of offence. We need him to be more Ryan Kesler and less Danny Paille. It doesn’t have to all happen this year, but he has to take a step.

Oddly, I have the fewest questions about Mittelstadt, perhaps because he has the lowest expectations and has come the closest to reaching them. I just want 70 games like his last 20, and signs that he can become the relentless guy other teams want to punch that I saw in junior.

Edited September 3, 2021 by dudacek

[dudacek]

In regards to the rest of the list, I like that Levi has started to win Pronman over, and I worry that he might be right about Lukkonnen.

I am pretty confident Quinn and Samuelsson are better than he thinks.

The most fascinating group to watch for me will be this year’s picks after Power. We had 7 of the 1st 97 picks in the most poorly scouted draft in recent memory and we clearly approached it in a much different way than previous drafts.

Eight months from now there will be a very high number of players who will emerge as steals and many others who will look like they were dramatically overdrafted.

We had an opportunity to change the course of the franchise by finally hitting on some depth picks.

Real curious if we will see signs that we did.

[GASabresIUFAN]

IMHO Quinn, Portillo, Weissbach, Huglen and especially Samuelsson are way to low.  

[Flashsabre]

https://twitter.com/Sabremetrix/status/1433816370429538307?s=20

Someone try to contain LGR😀

[LGR4GM]

You should look up the Kisakov's pass from today. 

[Brawndo]

 

[Brawndo]