Updated Sabres Prospect Pool 2021 and beyond

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I once heard a GM say a team should draft or sign an undrafted FA goalie every year in order to have a good goalie pipeline.  We used to believe that.  From 1975, when we drafted Sauve (1st rd) and Edwards) to 2007 we drafted at least one goalie every but 4 (1976, 1981, 1985 and 2001) taking 36 different goalies over those 33 drafts).  Then things changed somewhat with the shortening of the draft probably as a partial excuse. From 2008 to 2021, we have gone 7 drafts in which we didn't draft a goalie.  KA has yet to draft a goalie (although he acquired Levi) and TM didn't draft one after drafting Johansson in 2014.   Food for thought.

What does it matter if a goalie prospect is acquired through the draft or trade? The apprenticeship process is so long that there are plenty of opportunities to get a promising prospect from another team's system. That's exactly how it happened when the Sabres got Levi from Florida in the Reinhart deal. If I'm going to use a lower round pick to draft a player I would rather use it on a long shot forward than goalie. If you look at the goalie population there are always a lot of them circulating within the NHL pool of players.   

[Thorner]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

He's gonna sneaky good. 

I think he'll be right in that area where he could potentially be top 6 on a bad team, but better suited to a bottom 6 role on a good team, on a scoring line

[Hoss]

 

[LabattBlue]

51 minutes ago, Hoss said:

 

What about his comrades...I mean fellow 2021 Sabres draftees?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

What about his comrades...I mean fellow 2021 Sabres draftees?

I'm a little surprised Poltapov isn't there but Russia has tons of talent. He did play for their WJ18 team so this seems odd to me. Novikov is super young for his class so it would be more likely he be on the team next season if he makes it. Sardarian, was over drafted and isn't WJC level in terms of talent. 

[mjd1001]

On 7/28/2021 at 8:39 AM, JohnC said:

What does it matter if a goalie prospect is acquired through the draft or trade? The apprenticeship process is so long that there are plenty of opportunities to get a promising prospect from another team's system. That's exactly how it happened when the Sabres got Levi from Florida in the Reinhart deal. If I'm going to use a lower round pick to draft a player I would rather use it on a long shot forward than goalie. If you look at the goalie population there are always a lot of them circulating within the NHL pool of players.   

I just took a look at the top 10 goalies in terms of GAA this year (minimum 20 games played)...just to see how they were drafted. I admit this is only from 1 year and using only 20 games is a small minimum, but I wanted to do this as quick as possible:

6 1st round picks

1 2nd round pick

2 3rd round pick

2 4th round pick

Nothing later than that, no Free agents signings

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I just took a look at the top 10 goalies in terms of GAA this year (minimum 20 games played)...just to see how they were drafted. I admit this is only from 1 year and using only 20 games is a small minimum, but I wanted to do this as quick as possible:

6 1st round picks

1 2nd round pick

2 3rd round pick

2 4th round pick

Nothing later than that, no Free agents signings

Where the Sabres stand with prospects in the system it would have made littles sense for the Sabres to use a first round pick in either of our last two drafts. Also, because the Sabres were drafting so high in recent drafts the forwards who were drafted were rated higher than the goalie prospects. Sticking with the board made a lot of sense to me. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Where the Sabres stand with prospects in the system it would have made littles sense for the Sabres to use a first round pick in either of our last two drafts. Also, because the Sabres were drafting so high in recent drafts the forwards who were drafted were rated higher than the goalie prospects. Sticking with the board made a lot of sense to me. 

Jesper Wallstedt was drafted 20th and Sebastian Cossa was drafted 15th. The Sabres could have drafted either instead of Rosen (14th) and no one would have blinked an eye. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Jesper Wallstedt was drafted 20th and Sebastian Cossa was drafted 15th. The Sabres could have drafted either instead of Rosen (14th) and no one would have blinked an eye. 

Agreed.

[LGR4GM]

That said Erik Portillo was under-drafted probably because he is a super late bday for his draft class meaning he played his entire draft year at 17 as opposed to the 17/18 or full 18 that Jesper Wallstedt for example did. 

I am extremely excited for Portillo this year at Michigan. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm a little surprised Poltapov isn't there but Russia has tons of talent. He did play for their WJ18 team so this seems odd to me. Novikov is super young for his class so it would be more likely he be on the team next season if he makes it. Sardarian, was over drafted and isn't WJC level in terms of talent. 

Poltapov I believe is in training camp for the senior Red Army team.

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Jesper Wallstedt was drafted 20th and Sebastian Cossa was drafted 15th. The Sabres could have drafted either instead of Rosen (14th) and no one would have blinked an eye. 

Instead, the went for offensive talent there and acquired a 19-year-old goalie prospect in the Sam Reinhart deal.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

That said Erik Portillo was under-drafted probably because he is a super late bday for his draft class meaning he played his entire draft year at 17 as opposed to the 17/18 or full 18 that Jesper Wallstedt for example did. 

I am extremely excited for Portillo this year at Michigan. 

If Power, Johnson and Beniers return to Michigan with the class they have coming in, Portillo may get very lonely in goal.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That said Erik Portillo was under-drafted probably because he is a super late bday for his draft class meaning he played his entire draft year at 17 as opposed to the 17/18 or full 18 that Jesper Wallstedt for example did. 

I am extremely excited for Portillo this year at Michigan. 

Portillo, Levi and UPL are a strong trio of goalie prospects in my opinion.

 

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Poltapov I believe is in training camp for the senior Red Army team.

Instead, the went for offensive talent there and acquired a 19-year-old goalie prospect in the Sam Reinhart deal.

Thxs for the Poltapov info! 

And that is exactly what they did. They got a goalie in the Reinhart deal and went forward with the pick they got for risto.

8 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If Power, Johnson and Beniers return to Michigan with the class they have coming in, Portillo may get very lonely in goal.

Power will and Johnson definitely should. Beniers might not but it won't matter with the forward depth Michigan will have. 

[dudacek]

Closer look at the Sabres draft showed a real emphasis on hidden value - almost across the board.

And by hidden value, I mean players who weren’t at all hyped by the internet pre-draft, but show intriguing qualities upon closer inspection-pretty much to a player.

These are guys that make me want to follow their progress.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Closer look at the Sabres draft showed a real emphasis on hidden value - almost across the board.

And by hidden value, I mean players who weren’t at all hyped by the internet pre-draft, but show intriguing qualities upon closer inspection-pretty much to a player.

These are guys that make me want to follow their progress.

 

It was a definitely a swing for the fences draft, especially for guys like Bloom and Sardarian.  I also think they also grabbed some great value guys late in Novikov and Marjala.  Poltapov and Kisakov were known quantities but with high skill.  The biggest questions is when (or if) they come over.  If they do come over and just one of the two reaches their potential, this draft has the potential to be very special.  I also really like Nadeau if we are serious about being hard to play against. 

[dudacek]

Nadeau and Marjala were really good players in the Q this year.

Novikov is young for his cohort and has leadership qualities.

Bloom didn’t play, but is a young stallion in terms of his physical gifts.

Sardarian has special hands and was slowed by COVID this year. His numbers the previous year were fantastic.

[Mr. Allen]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Jesper Wallstedt was drafted 20th and Sebastian Cossa was drafted 15th. The Sabres could have drafted either instead of Rosen (14th) and no one would have blinked an eye. 

I really wanted the Sabres to draft one of those two with the 14th pick.  I highly doubt Rosen is going to be as impactful as a potential franchise goalie.  Sure, if he turns out to be a 30-40 goal scorer per year, then we made the right call.  But he’s gonna have to be special to make it worth the pick for me.  One of those goalies (if not both) are going to be a huge impact for their team.  

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Jesper Wallstedt was drafted 20th and Sebastian Cossa was drafted 15th. The Sabres could have drafted either instead of Rosen (14th) and no one would have blinked an eye. 

My eyes are blinking at full speed. Our pick was selected in the range where he was ranked. Maybe not for you but for me the Sabres made the right pick. Don't forget about Levi from the Reinhart trade.  

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Agreed.

With no hesitation I preferred the Sabres taking the Russian forward instead of the goaltender. The Sabres have some goalies in the pipeline that are not far away from moving up to the big league. And Levi should also be added to the mix. If the Sabres would have used their second pick on a goalie it would have been another disappointment laid on top of a mountain of disappointments. I thought overall our front office did a good job in this draft. 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My eyes are blinking at full speed. Our pick was selected in the range where he was ranked. Maybe not for you but for me the Sabres made the right pick. Don't forget about Levi from the Reinhart trade.  

Even with getting Levi would like to have seen them grab Wallstadt or Cossa.  At least 1 if not 2 of the Sabres 3 goaltending lottery tickets will likely not pan out.  Having a 4th lottery ticket to have a high end tandem would not have been a bad thing IMHO.

And should they end up with 3 or even miraculously 4 high end goalies they can trade 1 or 2 for something else when they'd start to need to clear waivers.

Would rather have a glut of goalies than a glut of W's should they end up w/ an excess of one.

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My eyes are blinking at full speed. Our pick was selected in the range where he was ranked. Maybe not for you but for me the Sabres made the right pick. Don't forget about Levi from the Reinhart trade.  

That's not what he was saying.  He was saying had the Sabres grabbed one of the 2 goalies with the 14th pick we all would have been ok with the selection and considering I had Wallstadt 10th on my list and Cossa high as well I agree.  That said trading for Levi likely made grabbing one of the goalies significantly less likely.

Edited August 2, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[JohnC]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's not what he was saying.  He was saying had the Sabres grabbed one of the 2 goalies with the 14th pick we all would have been ok with the selection and considering I had Wallstadt 10th on my list and Cossa high as well I would have been ok with the selection.  That said trading for Levi likely made grabbing one of the goalies significantly less likely.

I simply disagree with him. And as both of us noted acquiring a goalie prospect in a trade would have made the selection of a goalie an even more dubious decision. 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Even with getting Levi would like to have seen them grab Wallstadt or Cossa.  At least 1 if not 2 of the Sabres 3 goaltending lottery tickets will likely not pan out.  Having a 4th lottery ticket to have a high end tandem would not have been a bad thing IMHO.

And should they end up with 3 or even miraculously 4 high end goalies they can trade 1 or 2 for something else when they'd start to need to clear waivers.

Would rather have a glut of goalies than a glut of W's should they end up w/ an excess of one.

This organization has a dearth of top line forwards in their system. You are entitled to your reasonable opinion. However, I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you and LGR on this issue. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

This organization has a dearth of top line forwards in their system. You are entitled to your reasonable opinion. However, I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you and LGR on this issue. 

And nobody is saying you aren't entitled to your opinion.  We're merely stating why we disagree.

We'll know soon enough (3-4 years from now) which, whether either, neither, or both, is correct.