Updated Sabres Prospect Pool 2021 and beyond

[North Buffalo]

On 2/5/2022 at 8:33 PM, North Buffalo said:

Umass up 2-1 at end of second on a goal from Garrett Wait.  Ranked 10th nnot sure who is and NHL owned

PS LIU's coach, Brett Riley in its inaugural season, is the son of Sabres amateur scout Rob Riley.

Umass has 7 draft picks on their team including 5 freshman.

Edited February 10, 2022 by North Buffalo

[Flashsabre]

Man, Johnson is so smooth. He plays so much like Scott Niedermayer (style wise not skill level) Elite skating and brains makes everything look so easy for him. He had an assist tonight. He plays in every situation and just doesn’t make mistakes.

[North Buffalo]

UMass won 3-1... Lopina best guy on the ice... took all the important faceoffs.... 2 assists. 4th rd pick Ducks.

Edited February 9, 2022 by North Buffalo

[LGR4GM]

 

[dudacek]

Wheeler nearly finished his prospect pool countdown in the Athletic.

Minnesota was 3rd in an upper tier of three teams that have both elite talent and depth. The top team should be revealed tomorrow, it will be either L.A. or Buffalo.

Commence with the eye rolls.

[kas23]

On 7/25/2021 at 11:04 PM, dudacek said:

One guy didn’t play at all last year, and the other struggled due to a bout of COVID.

Looks like the Sabres were tracking them from earlier in their careers, did some homework some other scouts didn’t and decided they were worth it.

Those are the kind of bets you need to make to unearth some hidden gems. Be interesting to see where each goes.

 

 

If I’m correct, there was a family connection with Nightingale and Bloom’s team. This is how you get the inside scoop, especially if a player is shutdown for whatever reason. 

[Brawndo]

2 hours ago, kas23 said:

If I’m correct, there was a family connection with Nightingale and Bloom’s team. This is how you get the inside scoop, especially if a player is shutdown for whatever reason. 

You are correct, Jason Nightengale's Brother Jared was an Associate Coach with Saginaw when Bloom was drafted. He is now with the Flint Firebirds 

[Crusader1969]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Wheeler nearly finished his prospect pool countdown in the Athletic.

Minnesota was 3rd in an upper tier of three teams that have both elite talent and depth. The top team should be revealed tomorrow, it will be either L.A. or Buffalo.

Commence with the eye rolls.

Who will be #1 
im guessing Buffalo - he mentioned on another teams write up that he thought Power is the best prospect outside of the NHL

Could make a case for either LA or Buffalo being #1 

LA’s  AHL team is loaded with prospects and I’m guessing he will consider Byfield a prospect, even though he’s playing with Kings 

 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Who will be #1 
im guessing Buffalo - he mentioned on another teams write up that he thought Power is the best prospect outside of the NHL

Could make a case for either LA or Buffalo being #1 

LA’s  AHL team is loaded with prospects and I’m guessing he will consider Byfield a prospect, even though he’s playing with Kings 

 

I'm curious to see where Jack Quinn is ranked.

[dudacek]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm curious to see where Jack Quinn is ranked.

He had him 45th in August, Power 3rd.

He’s not generally ranking individual prospects though on this list.

 

[Crusader1969]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

He had him 45th in August, Power 3rd.

He’s not generally ranking individual prospects though on this list.

 

Looking back at his August list.  I’d guess Power would be #1 , though it’s not a slam dunk vs Byfield 
 
his august list 

Byfield
Caufield
Power
Zegras 
Perfertti 
Johnson
Clarke
Beniers
Raymond 
Eklund 

might be my homer opinion but I think Quinn should now be among these prospects 

 

 

 

[Digger]

44 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Looking back at his August list.  I’d guess Power would be #1 , though it’s not a slam dunk vs Byfield 
 
his august list 

Byfield
Caufield
Power
Zegras 
Perfertti 
Johnson
Clarke
Beniers
Raymond 
Eklund 

might be my homer opinion but I think Quinn should now be among these prospects 

I would think Byfield should be dropping pretty soon.  Still a strong prospect but he's not exceeding any expectations..............and yes Quinn has climbed this season.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Digger

[Curt]

5 hours ago, Digger said:

I would think Byfield should be dropping pretty soon.  Still a strong prospect but he's not exceeding any expectations..............and yes Quinn has climbed this season.

Byfield is only 3 months older than Power.  This doesn’t necessarily negate what you are saying, but it’s something to keep in mind.  They are basically the same age.

[Brawndo]

Sabres Prospects ranked 1st by Scott Wheeler

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Brawndo said:

Sabres Prospects ranked 1st by Scott Wheeler

 

[dudacek]

in summary Wheeler’s piece:

Best top 5 in hockey, best prospect overall in Power (NHL star), with Quinn (30 goals), Krebs (50 points with a complete game), Peterka (fan-fave buzzsaw middle-sixer) in his top 50. Levi 3-5 in his goalie rankings. 

Notables

• Rosen oozes skill
• Johnson projects as a 3-5 possession D, can play both sides
• Doesn’t like UPL against good shooters
• Thinks Poltapov lacks top 6 skill, but is tough to play against
• Kisakov has sick hands, might be too small to translate to next level
• Nadeau, Laaksonen and Rousek (who has just started skating again) are a tier above the other depth guys.

Team jumped from 15 to 1 thanks to Krebs, Levi trades, Quinn Peterka development, and a good draft headed by Power.

Edited February 9, 2022 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

For comparison to where we were in 2020

https://theathletic.com/1560899/2020/01/28/wheelers-2020-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-16-buffalo-sabres/

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

For comparison to where we were in 2020

https://theathletic.com/1560899/2020/01/28/wheelers-2020-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-16-buffalo-sabres/

This is the key: looking at Wheeler's (or any draftnik's) reports over the long term. He had the Sabres 15th in 2021 and 16th in 2020. The difference? Two trades for key prospects (and 1sts) and a really strong 2021 draft with a ton of selections. The worst thing about the mid-league rankings previously is that we were always in a state of rebuild, even in the 5 seasons leading up to those two drafts -- and we still didn't even fulfill his prerequisites of 20 prospects in those earlier years. This year, it's 20 + some honorable mentions.

It was something under GM JBot to trade away picks. In the 2017,18,19 drafts the Sabres made 6 picks. And in 2020 (Adams) they went into the draft with 6 picks and moved 1 to move up -- selecting only 5. Those are not the actions of a rebuild and a team that desperately needs to bolster depth.

If you're going to move picks, you trade them for a) players who are going to move the needle [like Eichel or Skinner, not say... Beaulieu or Vesey], b) rentals because you're going to the playoffs [not for Simmonds to play out the string on a non-playoff team], or c) if you really need to move up in the draft, you do it at the top of the draft [for a JJP] and not at the bottom of the draft [sending a 6 and 7 to get back into the 5th round*].

 

*To select Cederqvist when you could have just selected him with your original 5th which was a few picks earlier. But you didn't have that 5th because you traded it for F Scott Wilson who is a very good AHLer and was a 4th liner type at the time.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

This is the key: looking at Wheeler's (or any draftnik's) reports over the long term. He had the Sabres 15th in 2021 and 16th in 2020. The difference? Two trades for key prospects (and 1sts) and a really strong 2021 draft with a ton of selections. The worst thing about the mid-league rankings previously is that we were always in a state of rebuild, even in the 5 seasons leading up to those two drafts -- and we still didn't even fulfill his prerequisites of 20 prospects in those earlier years. This year, it's 20 + some honorable mentions.

It was something under GM JBot to trade away picks. In the 2017,18,19 drafts the Sabres made 6 picks. And in 2020 (Adams) they went into the draft with 6 picks and moved 1 to move up -- selecting only 5. Those are not the actions of a rebuild and a team that desperately needs to bolster depth.

If you're going to move picks, you trade them for a) players who are going to move the needle [like Eichel or Skinner, not say... Beaulieu or Vesey], b) rentals because you're going to the playoffs [not for Simmonds to play out the string on a non-playoff team], or c) if you really need to move up in the draft, you do it at the top of the draft [for a JJP] and not at the bottom of the draft [sending a 6 and 7 to get back into the 5th round*].

 

*To select Cederqvist when you could have just selected him with your original 5th which was a few picks earlier. But you didn't have that 5th because you traded it for F Scott Wilson who is a very good AHLer and was a 4th liner type at the time.

I completely disagree on letting late round pick go for depth NHL players.  5-7th rd picks have about 11-15% chance of playing 100 or more in the NHL and it usually take 3-5 years before they are ready to make the NHL (see VO).  If you can get a current NHLer for one of the those picks to improve the depth on your roster you do it.  

You say you don't like giving up a 3rd for Vesey.  This is somewhat understandable, except Jbot was trying to build scoring depth for a team that couldn't score.  Now look at our 3rd round picks over the last 15 or so years.  Since 2005 we have draft MAG (78 NHL games, 3 goals), Tropp (149, 6), Feinhage (0), McNabb (554, 22), Leduc (0), Sundher (0), MacKenzie (0), Catenacci (12, 0), Kea (0), Baptiste (47, 7), Johansson (30), Fitzgerald (7, 0), Laaksonen (0),

15 picks and only 1 legit NHL player who TM gave away (plus 2 2nd rd picks) for nothing.   Vesey for all his faults actually played decent two way hockey for us with 20 pts (9 goals) in 64 games with a +12 on a team coached by offense killing coach RK.  

[Flashsabre]

33 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I completely disagree on letting late round pick go for depth NHL players.  5-7th rd picks have about 11-15% chance of playing 100 or more in the NHL and it usually take 3-5 years before they are ready to make the NHL (see VO).  If you can get a current NHLer for one of the those picks to improve the depth on your roster you do it.  

You say you don't like giving up a 3rd for Vesey.  This is somewhat understandable, except Jbot was trying to build scoring depth for a team that couldn't score.  Now look at our 3rd round picks over the last 15 or so years.  Since 2005 we have draft MAG (78 NHL games, 3 goals), Tropp (149, 6), Feinhage (0), McNabb (554, 22), Leduc (0), Sundher (0), MacKenzie (0), Catenacci (12, 0), Kea (0), Baptiste (47, 7), Johansson (30), Fitzgerald (7, 0), Laaksonen (0),

15 picks and only 1 legit NHL player who TM gave away (plus 2 2nd rd picks) for nothing.   Vesey for all his faults actually played decent two way hockey for us with 20 pts (9 goals) in 64 games with a +12 on a team coached by offense killing coach RK.  

Ah Feinhage and Kea, those were the days.😂

[DarthEbriate]

39 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I completely disagree on letting late round pick go for depth NHL players.  5-7th rd picks have about 11-15% chance of playing 100 or more in the NHL and it usually take 3-5 years before they are ready to make the NHL (see VO).  If you can get a current NHLer for one of the those picks to improve the depth on your roster you do it.  

You say you don't like giving up a 3rd for Vesey.  This is somewhat understandable, except Jbot was trying to build scoring depth for a team that couldn't score.  Now look at our 3rd round picks over the last 15 or so years.  Since 2005 we have draft MAG (78 NHL games, 3 goals), Tropp (149, 6), Feinhage (0), McNabb (554, 22), Leduc (0), Sundher (0), MacKenzie (0), Catenacci (12, 0), Kea (0), Baptiste (47, 7), Johansson (30), Fitzgerald (7, 0), Laaksonen (0),

15 picks and only 1 legit NHL player who TM gave away (plus 2 2nd rd picks) for nothing.   Vesey for all his faults actually played decent two way hockey for us with 20 pts (9 goals) in 64 games with a +12 on a team coached by offense killing coach RK.  

I agree with you in a vacuum (for example, a 3rd for Vesey is a good trade) or on a average/good team where you're fixing a hole or two in the lineup. But this is a cumulative trauma of sending picks for JAGs, often as one-year rental UFAs. The Sabres have been a below average-team for a decade, constantly lacking NHL-quality and -ready depth to step up to the roster. If Vesey signs an extension and provides his expected role for 2+ years, then that'd be well worth it. But Vesey was a one-year rental so the potential of a controlled cheap contract with RFA status at the end and building the prospect pool was lost. We also need to remember in any Vesey discussion: he cost the Sabres two 3rds.

And this is all compounded by the point you made -- our 2005 through 2013 drafts were dismal. Yes, there are some really solid bottom 6/bottom-pair players, but only the two Tylers showed anything resembling top-flight potential. One got injured and the other became an overpriced JAG who somehow keeps getting long-term contracts. Then, we didn't build around them and blew it up to draft high. We've been rebuilding for 7 straight seasons --- we should have had one of the best prospect pool in the league the last 5 years running.

The McNabb (plus Parker) plus two 2nds... yup. That was awful. (And I liked Fasching's and DLo's games. Heck, Deslauriers is still being effective at that same role all these years later. And Zegras doesn't have to worry about taking any flak for attempting "Michigan" goals because DLo will have his back.)

[Crusader1969]

Having to trade for Vesey to complement depth scoring, exemplifies how sorry a state the Sabres were in.  

Now the big question is, where will the Sabres rank next season with the 6 of the top 10 prospects on this list playing full time in the NHL.  

With 3 first rounders and 2 seconds rounders, they should remain in the top 10. 

 

 

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

in summary Wheeler’s piece:

Best top 5 in hockey, best prospect overall in Power (NHL star), with Quinn (30 goals), Krebs (50 points with a complete game), Peterka (fan-fave buzzsaw middle-sixer) in his top 50. Levi 3-5 in his goalie rankings. 

Notables

• Rosen oozes skill
• Johnson projects as a 3-5 possession D, can play both sides
• Doesn’t like UPL against good shooters
• Thinks Poltapov lacks top 6 skill, but is tough to play against
• Kisakov has sick hands, might be too small to translate to next level
• Nadeau, Laaksonen and Rousek (who has just started skating again) are a tier above the other depth guys.

Team jumped from 15 to 1 thanks to Krebs, Levi trades, Quinn Peterka development, and a good draft headed by Power.

And as expected, even being ranked #1 the list is nearly devoid of centres and RHD. Certainly it’s not where the depth is coming from. (That we are still ranked #1 speaks to the significant depth at the other positions). Add some bodies to the ranks in those areas and the list is looking really good 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Thorny

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

This is the key: looking at Wheeler's (or any draftnik's) reports over the long term. He had the Sabres 15th in 2021 and 16th in 2020. The difference? Two trades for key prospects (and 1sts) and a really strong 2021 draft with a ton of selections. The worst thing about the mid-league rankings previously is that we were always in a state of rebuild, even in the 5 seasons leading up to those two drafts -- and we still didn't even fulfill his prerequisites of 20 prospects in those earlier years. This year, it's 20 + some honorable mentions.

It was something under GM JBot to trade away picks. In the 2017,18,19 drafts the Sabres made 6 picks. And in 2020 (Adams) they went into the draft with 6 picks and moved 1 to move up -- selecting only 5. Those are not the actions of a rebuild and a team that desperately needs to bolster depth.

If you're going to move picks, you trade them for a) players who are going to move the needle [like Eichel or Skinner, not say... Beaulieu or Vesey], b) rentals because you're going to the playoffs [not for Simmonds to play out the string on a non-playoff team], or c) if you really need to move up in the draft, you do it at the top of the draft [for a JJP] and not at the bottom of the draft [sending a 6 and 7 to get back into the 5th round*].

 

*To select Cederqvist when you could have just selected him with your original 5th which was a few picks earlier. But you didn't have that 5th because you traded it for F Scott Wilson who is a very good AHLer and was a 4th liner type at the time.

It’s nice to see we moved from 15 to 1 in large part because we acquired Krebs and Levi, but it’s not like the on-roster cost to do that wasn’t extravagant. Shuffling strengths. 

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

in summary Wheeler’s piece:

Best top 5 in hockey, best prospect overall in Power (NHL star), with Quinn (30 goals), Krebs (50 points with a complete game), Peterka (fan-fave buzzsaw middle-sixer) in his top 50. Levi 3-5 in his goalie rankings.

 

 

9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Rosen was ranked as the Sabres 6th best prospect behind Power, Krebs, Quinn, Levi, and JJ.

Apologies, which is the correct order of the top 5?