Updated Sabres Prospect Pool 2021 and beyond

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, Taro T said:

IMHO the biggest question about Levi will be how well will he stand up to being run by NHLers.  If he can keep from breaking when getting run over by a true NHL-sized man going at full speed, he'll end up being a steal.

He seems to have the reflexes and the mental acuity to make it.  Can he be durable at the smaller stature is the big Q.  (Fortunately for him, goalies don't get run as often as they did.  But they still get run and playing on a team that is considered (rightly or wrongly) to not be particularly tough will not help cut down on that further.)

It's not. It's not even on the list. 

Show us where Lucic hurt your psyche

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

It's not. It's not even on the list. 

Show us where Lucic hurt your psyche

Gee, what a shocker.  You misunderstanding &/or misrepresenting something.

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Taro T said:

IMHO the biggest question about Levi will be how well will he stand up to being run by NHLers.  If he can keep from breaking when getting run over by a true NHL-sized man going at full speed, he'll end up being a steal.

He seems to have the reflexes and the mental acuity to make it.  Can he be durable at the smaller stature is the big Q.  (Fortunately for him, goalies don't get run as often as they did.  But they still get run and playing on a team that is considered (rightly or wrongly) to not be particularly tough will not help cut down on that further.)

 

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Gee, what a shocker.  You misunderstanding &/or misrepresenting something.

Oh goody, gaslighting. 

Worrying about Levi getting run and breaking is not on the biggest questions list. 

"Can he be durable at the smaller stature" ... the smaller statute of *checks notes* 6ft 185lbs? Yes I think he can be durable, odd you're not worried about 6ft 176lb Quinn, 5'11" 192lbs Peterka

Edited November 29, 2021 by LGR4GM

[pi2000]

8 hours ago, French Collection said:

Not saying Levi’s ready but Spencer Knight was his opponent in that WJHC and is now in the NHL. Knight’s pedigree was higher and he is fast tracking for a goalie. 
 

Carter Hart came up young as well but has had a lot of bumps on his road.

I think Levi turns pro at the end of this year. He will need to be challenged at the next level in order to keep developing. The goalie position is so much more about mental balance, focus and confidence.
This guy’s chart has been on a steep climb and I see him building a great resume to keep advancing.

Both Levi and Portillo could benefit from returning to NCAA next season, especially Portillo.... who reminds me very much of UPL... same physical stature and plays the same style, gets lost in the crease occasionally and over commits, is slow to recover, etc..    When you're their size you need to have exceptional athleticism to control your angular momentum, like turning a large ship at sea.    

[Crusader1969]

had a bit of insomnia last night, so i watched Poltapov's game from Sunday.  His team won 6-2 and he had a goal (showing off his hands) and a couple of assists but the most fun shift happens at approximately 38 mins.  great puck control along the boards, too strong for opponent and shifty, great edge work circling around the offensive join and almost converts on the wrap around.

Its MHL not KHL or VHL but still shows off the kids skill and strength 

 

28.11.2021. ХК «Рига» – «Красная Армия» | (Париматч МХЛ 21/22) – Прямая трансляция - YouTube

 

 

 

 

[Taro T]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:10 PM, LGR4GM said:

 

Oh goody, gaslighting. 

Worrying about Levi getting run and breaking is not on the biggest questions list. 

"Can he be durable at the smaller stature" ... the smaller statute of *checks notes* 6ft 185lbs? Yes I think he can be durable, odd you're not worried about 6ft 176lb Quinn, 5'11" 192lbs Peterka

Gaslighting?  Seriously?

Where's the SMH emoji when you need it.  😒

[LGR4GM]

On 11/29/2021 at 10:55 AM, Taro T said:

IMHO the biggest question about Levi will be how well will he stand up to being run by NHLers.  If he can keep from breaking when getting run over by a true NHL-sized man going at full speed, he'll end up being a steal.

He seems to have the reflexes and the mental acuity to make it.  Can he be durable at the smaller stature is the big Q.  (Fortunately for him, goalies don't get run as often as they did.  But they still get run and playing on a team that is considered (rightly or wrongly) to not be particularly tough will not help cut down on that further.)

You say 2 times in this post the biggest question for Levi is "getting run". You then talk about goalies getting run is less these days and conclude with they still get run. 

Not sure anyone could interpret that other than you thinking the biggest question is Levi being durable enough to get run but here we are with you gaslighting acting like that's not your point. "IMHO the biggest question about Levi will be how well will he stand up to being run by NHLers." That's not the biggest question because it doesn't matter, the biggest question is can he continue his level of play in the NHL.

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Gaslighting?  Seriously?

Where's the SMH emoji when you need it.  😒

Yes, you're gaslighting after writing a very clear post of what you think Levi's biggest question is. I said it was not the biggest question and didn't really matter. You then accuse me of misrepresenting you. 

Here's your chance, explain away your post...

Edited November 30, 2021 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

@Taro T explain in what way saying Levi being run isn't a big question is misrepresenting your post that starts with "IMHO the biggest question about Levi will be how well will he stand up to being run by NHLers."

[Taro T]

55 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

@Taro T explain in what way saying Levi being run isn't a big question is misrepresenting your post that starts with "IMHO the biggest question about Levi will be how well will he stand up to being run by NHLers."

You are owed absolutely nothing.  And as reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit, really don't see a point to trying to explain it or anything to you.  Will quite likely give further clarification in a subsequent post but not because YOU are demanding it.  Heck, your demanding it is a pretty good reason to not bother with it.

You don't even realize what you're misrepresenting.  At least you twigged on to what you're misunderstanding.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

You are owed absolutely nothing.  And as reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit, really don't see a point to trying to explain it or anything to you.  Will quite likely give further clarification in a subsequent post but not because YOU are demanding it.  Heck, your demanding it is a pretty good reason to not bother with it.

You don't even realize what you're misrepresenting.  At least you twigged on to what you're misunderstanding.

Reading comp is good enough to know a non denial denial when I see it. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

You are owed absolutely nothing.  And as reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit, really don't see a point to trying to explain it or anything to you.  Will quite likely give further clarification in a subsequent post but not because YOU are demanding it.  Heck, your demanding it is a pretty good reason to not bother with it.

You don't even realize what you're misrepresenting.  At least you twigged on to what you're misunderstanding.

I don't make a habit of siding with lgr on things, but I interpreted your post the same way he did, and am also confused by your concerns with Levi's durability/toughness at the NHL level in a couple(three?) Years. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I do kind of like the idea of signing Strauss Mann this off-season.

[thewookie1]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:56 PM, pi2000 said:

Both Levi and Portillo could benefit from returning to NCAA next season, especially Portillo.... who reminds me very much of UPL... same physical stature and plays the same style, gets lost in the crease occasionally and over commits, is slow to recover, etc..    When you're their size you need to have exceptional athleticism to control your angular momentum, like turning a large ship at sea.    

Portillo might need a contract to protect us from a Peterson situation again. If Levi keeps this up he needs to be in with Rochester or an European men’s league; he’s quite literally making Northeastern relevant almost alone. We neither want his challenge to wear him down/make him cocky/stunt his growth. After all he has 5 shutouts within 20 games.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

I don't make a habit of siding with lgr on things, but I interpreted your post the same way he did, and am also confused by your concerns with Levi's durability/toughness at the NHL level in a couple(three?) Years. 

Watched his WJC play and have caught a few of his highlights but haven't been able to watch any full games at NE. From what have seen & read, his style seems to be very much in the Carey Price mold.  He has excellent reflexes and nearly textbook positioning and is very good at reading plays as well.  He's excelled at every level he's played.  Were he possessing more prototypical size, he would have been drafted far higher.

Really not concerned that he'll be a flash in the pan that doesn't make the NHL and play at a high level, though want to see some actual games post WJC before finalizing that position.  The biggest concern IMHO is that much like the larger Price has dealt with several major injuries throughout his career primarily due to contact, that that will be the most limiting factor in his trajectory.  And if a 6'3" 217# goalie can suffer major injuries, a smaller guy playing a similar game could find himself dealing w/ the same/similar.  (Note: could, not will.)

Have said contact doesn't happen as much now as it did but it still happens often enough to be something that MIGHT hold him back.  And, if he's already overcome significant injury in the past, then considering how well he plays at present, that concern is likely overblown, but don't know of any he's battled through.  And for those with low comprehension, should there be any that read this, am saying that IMHO this kid will end up getting here w/in 3 years & we're going to be wondering if he should've gotten here even sooner.  Saw Price play vs the Amerks in the AHL & was wondering how Moe-ray-all didn't have a place for him on the parent club.  He was far & away the best player on the ice from either team.  Expecting we'll be wondering the same thing when he leads the Amerks on a long playoff run soon.

Also, saying something is the "biggest concern" doesn't mean it is a BIG concern.  It is comparing the concern to other concerns.  Kind of like the proverbial "biggest midget" isn't exactly an imposing figure, the biggest concern on a guy that's excelled everywhere isn't exactly worth losing sleep over.  Maybe other flaws will get exposed, but really not very concerned about that possibility.  If anybody else wants to be concerned about that, more power to them.

[Taro T]

28 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I do kind of like the idea of signing Strauss Mann this off-season.

Would want to know who would be viewed as the better prospect at this point, Portillo or would Mann possibly have a higher ceiling.  If Portillo is the better prospect, and presumably he is as nobody signed Mann as a college FA, would have a very long talk w/ him and his "advisor" about exactly what the plan is to make sure he doesn't pull a Petersen on the Sabres if they were to go that route.

Portillo's already been stuck behind Mann & could very possibly be behind Levi soon too.  Can't see him being happy w/ being behind Mann again.  (But he might be very interested in having the opportunity to outplay & advance beyond him.)

And, if Mann is viewed as a better prospect by anybody that matters in the Sabres braintrust, then heck yeah, grab him.  Or at least try.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would want to know who would be viewed as the better prospect at this point, Portillo or would Mann possibly have a higher ceiling.  If Portillo is the better prospect, and presumably he is as nobody signed Mann as a college FA, would have a very long talk w/ him and his "advisor" about exactly what the plan is to make sure he doesn't pull a Petersen on the Sabres if they were to go that route.

Portillo's already been stuck behind Mann & could very possibly be behind Levi soon too.  Can't see him being happy w/ being behind Mann again.  (But he might be very interested in having the opportunity to outplay & advance beyond him.)

And, if Mann is viewed as a better prospect by anybody that matters in the Sabres braintrust, then heck yeah, grab him.  Or at least try.

We need goaltenders at all levels.  Our organization as it stands has one goalie and that is UPL.  Mann is a few years older then Portillo and would be competition for UPL.  The worst that can happens is that he isn’t very good.  

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We need goaltenders at all levels.  Our organization as it stands has one goalie and that is UPL.  

They ABSOLUTELY do.  But, IF signing Mann could lead to Portillo walking, it would very likely be a mistake.  

As said, maybe Portillo really likes Mann and would relish the friendly competition.  In which case - try to sign him.

But if signing Mann were to cause Portillo to come to the same conclusion that Petersen came to a few years ago, it wouldn't be a win unless Mann ends up better than Portillo.  What is the likelihood of that being the case?

[dudacek]

Is there mid-aughts template forming here at all?

It's pretty easy to draw parallels between:

• Mitts - Connolly
• Quinn - Vanek
• Asplund - Hecht
• Okposo - Grier
• Dahlin - Campbell
• Power - Tallinder
• Samuelsson - McKee
• Levi - Miller

Squint a little harder and this might work:

• Thompson/Cozens/Krebs/Girgensons/Jankowski - Briere/Drury/Roy/Gaustad/Mair
• Tuch/Olofsson/Rosen/Peterka/Poltapov - Dumont/Pominville/Afinogenov/Kotalik//Pyatt
• Johnson/Bryson/Jokiharju - Lydman/Kalinin
• UPL/Portillo - Biron/Noronen

Toss this year's three firsts into the mix to make up for some of today's unproven kids not developing?

It's enough to make you wonder if it's at all conscious.

Edited December 1, 2021 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

They ABSOLUTELY do.  But, IF signing Mann could lead to Portillo walking, it would very likely be a mistake.  

As said, maybe Portillo really likes Mann and would relish the friendly competition.  In which case - try to sign him.

But if signing Mann were to cause Portillo to come to the same conclusion that Petersen came to a few years ago, it wouldn't be a win unless Mann ends up better than Portillo.  What is the likelihood of that being the case?

I don’t think one has anything to do with the other.  He’d be more worried about Levi signing as he is younger and frankly outplaying Portillo in the NCAA right now.  We as an organization need to layer our goalie prospects.  After reading about Portillo in the Athletic I’m not worried he won’t sign regardless of who else we sign.

[SwampD]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

@Taro T explain in what way saying Levi being run isn't a big question is misrepresenting your post that starts with "IMHO the biggest question about Levi will be how well will he stand up to being run by NHLers."

Did you learn a new word or something? Voicing a concern that is unfounded (in my opinion) is hardly gaslighting.

While I truly believe that size matters in other positions and can give an advantage in certain situations on the ice, I don't believe that to be the case with goalies.

They are either good or not. Big goalies oft get hurt, too. 

It's not gaslighting. There was no need to make someone you disagree with sound crazy in order to make your point more valid.

[Curt]

Hey @Taro T,

Why do you think that Levi’s biggest question mark is whether he can stand up to getting run?  I’d say whether he can stop the puck at the pro level is a much bigger issue.

Do you have any examples of small goalies who couldn’t make it in the NHL specifically because they were getting run?

As far as just standard durability against injury/fatigue, do small goalies wear down faster than large ones?  I wouldn’t think so.  Big guys going up-down up-down must be hard on the knees/hips.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, SwampD said:

Did you learn a new word or something? Voicing a concern that is unfounded (in my opinion) is hardly gaslighting.

While I truly believe that size matters in other positions and can give an advantage in certain situations on the ice, I don't believe that to be the case with goalies.

They are either good or not. Big goalies oft get hurt, too. 

It's not gaslighting. There was no need to make someone you disagree with sound crazy in order to make your point more valid.

He said I didn't read what I read, that that version of reality was not real. Specifically that I should question my reading of his words which I quoted back to him after he accused me of not being able to read and also deliberately mischaracterizing his post. For the record Taro has now tripled down on what he said which is he is concerned about Levi getting run due to his size. 

Too the bolded portion I recommend you work on your reading comprehension to understand what actually happened as opposed to yet another personal attack. It was not gaslighting that he voiced his concern, it was gaslighting when I questioned that concern and he proceeded to try to act like he didn't write what he did. 

On 11/29/2021 at 3:47 PM, Taro T said:

Gee, what a shocker.  You misunderstanding &/or misrepresenting something.

14 hours ago, Taro T said:

You are owed absolutely nothing.  And as reading comprehension is NOT your strong suit, really don't see a point to trying to explain it or anything to you. 

I misunderstand/misrepresent what he said and I don't have reading comp. If that isn't an attempt to force me to question the reality of this, not sure what is. 

AKA gaslighting. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Hey @Taro T,

Why do you think that Levi’s biggest question mark is whether he can stand up to getting run?  I’d say whether he can stop the puck at the pro level is a much bigger issue.

Do you have any examples of small goalies who couldn’t make it in the NHL specifically because they were getting run?

As far as just standard durability against injury/fatigue, do small goalies wear down faster than large ones?  I wouldn’t think so.  Big guys going up-down up-down must be hard on the knees/hips.

Again, really expect that he will stop the puck at the NHL level.  He's stopped NHLers in pick up settings and has stopped pretty much everybody in all actual competitive settings he's been in at every level.

And again, don't see getting injured a HUGE concern, our size triggered friend getting triggered by a concern relating to a player's smaller stature made this seem a bigger concern than it is.  The comparable used has been Price who will be a HoFer but has had multiple seasons now derailed due to injury.  As he seems to play a similar style but is a fair bit smaller, can see it being a concern though not a massive one.  That said, again, see it a bigger concern than will he be able to track plays at the quicker pace or will he be able to get a glove or shoulder on those pucks that UPL has found so elusive through much of his post-hip surgery career.

Heck, during his 1st NHL season, durability appeared to be McDavid's biggest concern as he stepped right in without losing a beat other than the broken clavicle.  

And no, don't have injury data to confirm nor deny the supposition.  It really isn't that interesting a research project IMHO.  As for smaller goalies wearing down faster, Dwight Drane put in a lot of effort on it back before he was banned.  Maybe it still exists here.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Again, really expect that he will stop the puck at the NHL level.  He's stopped NHLers in pick up settings and has stopped pretty much everybody in all actual competitive settings he's been in at every level.

And again, don't see getting injured a HUGE concern, our size triggered friend getting triggered by a concern relating to a player's smaller stature made this seem a bigger concern than it is.  The comparable used has been Price who will be a HoFer but has had multiple seasons now derailed due to injury.  As he seems to play a similar style but is a fair bit smaller, can see it being a concern though not a massive one.  That said, again, see it a bigger concern than will he be able to track plays at the quicker pace or will he be able to get a glove or shoulder on those pucks that UPL has found so elusive through much of his post-hip surgery career.

Heck, during his 1st NHL season, durability appeared to be McDavid's biggest concern as he stepped right in without losing a beat other than the broken clavicle.  

And no, don't have injury data to confirm nor deny the supposition.  It really isn't that interesting a research project IMHO.  As for smaller goalies wearing down faster, Dwight Drane put in a lot of effort on it back before he was banned.  Maybe it still exists here.

More gaslighting. You just can't help yourself can you? 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He said I didn't read what I read, that that version of reality was not real. Specifically that I should question my reading of his words which I quoted back to him after he accused me of not being able to read and also deliberately mischaracterizing his post. For the record Taro has now tripled down on what he said which is he is concerned about Levi getting run due to his size. 

Too the bolded portion I recommend you work on your reading comprehension to understand what actually happened as opposed to yet another personal attack. It was not gaslighting that he voiced his concern, it was gaslighting when I questioned that concern and he proceeded to try to act like he didn't write what he did. 

I misunderstand/misrepresent what he said and I don't have reading comp. If that isn't an attempt to force me to question the reality of this, not sure what is. 

AKA gaslighting. 

No, once again, you misunderstood what you read & then based upon that misunderstanding later misrepresented what was said.  That does not make what was said later in our discussion gaslighting.