Updated Sabres Prospect Pool 2021 and beyond

[Thorner]

Just now, Brawndo said:

The most impressive part is that Quinn and Peterka were taken before the Sabres revamped the scouting department.

And Costantini isn’t too shabby either 

And it's not like Adams just went with the previously established board in 2020, either. Word is Botterill had Rossi pegged. 

Not that Rossi doesn't look great, but Adams still seems to have "hit" on Quinn

[Brawndo]

9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

And it's not like Adams just went with the previously established board in 2020, either. Word is Botterill had Rossi pegged. 

Not that Rossi doesn't look great, but Adams still seems to have "hit" on Quinn

Signing Tage to a very team friendly deal

Signing Zemgus to an extension that would allow for Him and Okposo to be leaders for the new core during the next two seasons 

Drafting Quinn and trading up for Peterka 

Hiring Karamanos who hired Ventura, who hired Galamini.

Early returns on Adams are favorable. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Brawndo

[Thorner]

27 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Signing Tage to a very team friendly deal

Signing Zemgus to an extension that would allow for Him and Okposo to be leaders for the new core during the next two seasons 

Drafting Quinn and trading up for Peterka 

Hiring Karamanos who hired Ventura, who hired Galamini.

Early returns on Adams are favorable. 

If results aren’t a part of the equation - then definitely 

- - - 

^thats not sarcastic, either. Plenty will have their valid reasons for writing off last year when he tried to field a good team and say this is a development year, with good reason. 

But it probably bears mentioning. At some point, it’ll be the most important thing. Dunno when that is though. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Thorny

[K-9]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Notable Sabre prospect AHL rookie seasons:

• Thomas Vanek (D+2) 74 42/26/68
• Tyler Ennis (D+2) 69 23/42/65
• Luke Adam (D+3) 59 29/33/62
• Clarke MacArthur (D+3) 69 21/32/53
• *Drew Stafford (D+3) 34 22/22/44
• Justin Bailey (D+3) 70 20/25/45
• Rasmus Asplund (D+3) 75 10/31/41
• Marcus Foligno (D+3) 60 16/23/39
• Marek Zagrapan (D+2) 71 17/21/48
• Mikhail Girgorenko (D+3) 43 14/22/36
• Jason Pominville (D+2) 73 13/21/34
• Danny Paille (D+3) 79 14/15/29
• Alex Nylander (D+1) 65 10/18/28
• Joel Armia (D+3) 54 7/20/27
• *Derek Roy (D+3) 26 10/16/26
• *Zack Kassian (D+3) 30 15/11/26
• Zemgus Girgensons (D+1) 61 6/11/17

*early call-up

 

For what it’s worth, our 2020 pair is pacing, over 82 games, for

• Jack Quinn (D+2) 54/48/102
• JJ Peterka (D+2) 24/60/84

It’s just a start, but it is definitely a notable one.

Can you help me understand the D+ concept? If Quinn and JJ were drafted only one year ago, why aren't they D+1? 

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Can you help me understand the D+ concept? If Quinn and JJ were drafted only one year ago, why aren't they D+1? 

D+1 is the year after they were drafted. JJ played in Europe, Jack had 15 games in Rochester.

D+2 is this year.

[Norcal]

 

 

[Brawndo]

 

 

[Brawndo]

 

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

 

To quote a movie...

"If you score on (Levi), keep the puck because it doesn't happen often"

[LGR4GM]

 

 

[LGR4GM]

Levi won in the 8th round of the shootout on a goal by Jack Hughes

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

 

While I enjoy this thread and find it fun and interesting, I have to believe that most teams have a list like this night in night out, no? I mean, every team has future NHLers that should be dominating in the leagues they are playing in. 

I really don't mean to piss in the bowl of cheerios, but it's hard to tell what this means or get excited about it until we see how our list compares to the other 31 teams' lists.

Edited November 21, 2021 by SwampD

[WildCard]

A lot of the prospect rankings I see have the Sabres' prospect pool ranked 10-15. Is that accurate? 

[sabresparaavida]

7 minutes ago, WildCard said:

A lot of the prospect rankings I see have the Sabres' prospect pool ranked 10-15. Is that accurate? 

How recent are the rankings? It seems that a lot of Sabres prospects (bloom, Quinn, Rosen, Novikov, Levi) have improved their stock dramatically so far this season, in addition to adding Krebs. It also seems that there aren’t many underperforming expectations, and others are meeting or slightly surpassing theirs. I don’t know about other teams pools to know enough, but I think that would give us a rise in the rankings from ones made at the beginning of the season.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

A lot of the prospect rankings I see have the Sabres' prospect pool ranked 10-15. Is that accurate? 

Ask us in five years.

Snark aside, anything written prior to the last month or so would not account for the addition of Krebs, nor the jumps shown by Quinn, Peterka, Levi and Power. I suspect when updated lists start coming out in the spring, the Sabres will be moving up.

The Sabres have both high-end talent, and depth in their pool at the moment. Personally I think it would be hard to objectively justify ranking them outside the top 5, but opinions are opinions.I mean someone just ranked Jack Quinn - currently having the 9th best U21 AHL season in in the past 20 or 30 years - as the 96th best prospect in hockey.

Edited November 22, 2021 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 11/20/2021 at 12:49 PM, Brawndo said:

The most impressive part is that Quinn and Peterka were taken before the Sabres revamped the scouting department.

And Costantini isn’t too shabby either 

Why is that a surprise? Jbot’s crew did a good job of evaluating Jr players.  Cozens, Mitts, Samuelson, R2, Bryson are all Jbot’s picks and there are more coming.

[Crusader1969]

Russia has released their world juniors camp roster.  Unfortunately no Poltapov or Kisakov but Dman Novikov is listed (7th rd 2021)

[LabattBlue]

21 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Russia has released their world juniors camp roster.  Unfortunately no Poltapov or Kisakov but Dman Novikov is listed (7th rd 2021)

Not making the team is one thing.  Not even getting invited to camp is disappointing. 😞

[Thorner]

18 hours ago, WildCard said:

A lot of the prospect rankings I see have the Sabres' prospect pool ranked 10-15. Is that accurate? 

I think people tend to underrate how barren we are at C in the system, the most important position. Especially on lists that focus purely on guys not yet in the NHL. Before Krebs, we may not have had a C in the system that projected to NHL level. We haven't drafted a C in at least the first 2 rounds the last 2 drafts. I keep saying we gotta get a C high this coming draft and the refrain is "BPA"

No, we need to take a couple centres. 

IMO

After that, as I've said the pool looks pretty strong

there's depth, but not at the most important skater position 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Not making the team is one thing.  Not even getting invited to camp is disappointing. 😞

Take it with a grain of salt. There is a ton of politics in how the Russian team is selected.  Players are often passed over because they play on the wrong team or they aren’t a favorite of the hockey federation.  The Athletic did a piece a few weeks ago with Novikov on the team and Poltapov as a possibility.  The article talked about his hard it was to project the Russian team because of the politics involved.

Edited November 23, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Norcal]

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Russia has released their world juniors camp roster.  Unfortunately no Poltapov or Kisakov but Dman Novikov is listed (7th rd 2021)

This is very disappointing. Was looking forward to watching them play.

 

[Brawndo]

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I think people tend to underrate how barren we are at C in the system, the most important position. Especially on lists that focus purely on guys not yet in the NHL. Before Krebs, we may not have had a C in the system that projected to NHL level. We haven't drafted a C in at least the first 2 rounds the last 2 drafts. I keep saying we gotta get a C high this coming draft and the refrain is "BPA"

No, we need to take a couple centres. 

IMO

After that, as I've said the pool looks pretty strong

there's depth, but not at the most important skater position 

Not arguing your conclusion — I want to add more centres, and all things being equal, would prefer one with our first pick.

But the characterization of a "barren' system is false. Under 25 and under team control for a minimum 3 years

• Cozens (7th)
• Mittelstadt (8th overall)
• Krebs (17th)
• Thompson (26th overall pick)
• Bloom (95th)
• Costantini (133)
• Van Barnekow (165)
• Kozak (193)
• Konecny (216)

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005054.html

How many teams have that much draft capital invested in centres?

The Bruins, for example

• Trent Frederic (29)
• John Beecher (30)
• Jack Studnicka (53)
• Brett Harrison (85th)
• Curtis Hall (119)
• Cedric Pare (163)
• Riley Duran (182)

Everybody's favourite prospect pool is LA

• 2) Quinton Byfield
• 5) Alex Turcotte
• 11) Gabe Villardi
• 20 Rasmus Kupari
• 41) Jaret Anderson-Dolan
• 42) Francisco Pinelli
• 51) Akil Thomas
• 59) Sami Helenius
• 138) Drake Rymsha
• 142) Mikey Eysimont

Are Turcotte, Kupari, and Villardi better than Mitts, Cozens and Thompson? Not that they've shown as of yet.

We don't have a Byfield and that's why the Kings group is better. But you can say the same thing for most prospect pools.

Thompson and Krebs have changed things. Can we name 10 teams with a better group of young centres than the Sabres?

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not arguing your conclusion — I want to add more centres, and all things being equal, would prefer one with our first pick.

But the characterization of a "barren' system is false. Under 25 and under team control for a minimum 3 years

• Cozens (7th)
• Mittelstadt (8th overall)
• Krebs (17th)
• Thompson (26th overall pick)
• Bloom (95th)
• Costantini (133)
• Van Barnekow (165)
• Kozak (193)
• Konecny (216)

https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005054.html

How many teams have that much draft capital invested in centres?

The Bruins, for example

• Trent Frederic (29)
• John Beecher (30)
• Jack Studnicka (53)
• Brett Harrison (85th)
• Curtis Hall (119)
• Cedric Pare (163)
• Riley Duran (182)

Everybody's favourite prospect pool is LA

• 2) Quinton Byfield
• 5) Alex Turcotte
• 11) Gabe Villardi
• 20 Rasmus Kupari
• 41) Jaret Anderson-Dolan
• 42) Francisco Pinelli
• 51) Akil Thomas
• 59) Sami Helenius
• 138) Drake Rymsha
• 142) Mikey Eysimont

Are Turcotte, Kupari, and Villardi better than Mitts, Cozens and Thompson? Not that they've shown as of yet.

We don't have a Byfield and that's why the Kings group is better. But you can say the same thing for most prospect pools.

Thompson and Krebs have changed things. Can we name 10 teams with a better group of young centres than the Sabres?

We are most in need compared to most rosters - our on-roster guys are also question marks. Unlike, say, a Boston. 

As I said, "barren" was particularly relevant when looking at just the system, guys not in the NHL. Apologies if there is confusion but when I use "system" it's usually in that way. After Krebs, it IS barren - this is because we haven't used high picks on centres the last couple drafts. There's absolutely no way I'll be convinced a team can go 3 straight years without doing do and get away it, not with the current roster we have. 

Josh Bloom has a glimmer of hope to be an NHLer. Look at the numbers beside the rest of those guys. They aren't going to play in the NHL. My conclusion stands for me: after Krebs, we don't have anyone else in the system who projects to NHL player at C. 

You are lumping together on roster players already in key roles for us and guys still in the system, and comparing our pools against other teams, without factoring in their NHL players in key roles. It's imbalanced an gives an inaccurate representation. If Cozens and Casey are in the NHL, yes, the prospect system at C is barren after Krebs. If Cozens is still a prospect, our prospect system at C is still too shallow considering what we need to fill on the NHL roster. 

There *is* a reason we aren't factoring higher on lists, and it's not our winger, D, and G depth. And it's not all "anti-buffalo bias" either. 

- - -

All you have to do is look at organizational depth. Cozens and Mittelstadt are also already our *best* centres. Compare Cozens, Thompson, Casey, and Krebs against the league as a whole and...we need to take a C. Up high. 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Thorny