The veteran presence

[Doohicksie]

I think Staal was a negative, but Okie is and remains a positive.  He hasn't proved anything in his career but still wants to.

[triumph_communes]

16 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I'm all for veteran presence. The question is...

 Can they get the right guys to buy in and understand that winning is the goal but might not happen consistently right away? Can they commit to playing the game the right way and guiding the young core on and off the ice?

Maybe they can get a little extra for babysitting? 

Are the new high draft picks more coachable and mentorable than the last few?  Reinhart and Eichel had powerful dads that probably ruined damn near everything. Just like ROR. 
 

Cozens has a humble upbringing. Dahlin has a humble upbringing. Power seems like a diva, but he’s squarely behind Dahlin and that’s more motivational drive than anything money can buy when it comes to guys like him. 

And there’s a coach who has done decades worth of player development as their coach. 
 

Just need vets willing to put in the effort like Gionta and the sponges ready to soak it in. Players like Eichel and Reinhart floated. 
 

im hopeful. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by triumph_communes

[Norcal]

11 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

IMO the team was worse because of them.   Their net contribution was negative.

Kinda like Staal, Okposo... etc. Washed up but still hanging around to "teach the young core".   Not necessary, especially when they're not helping you win.

No doubt, they were used up but they had a history of playing hard minutes and did so in Buffalo as well. Gorges especially took a beating every night on a losing effort, it was almost noble in a way.

[pi2000]

2 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Are the new high draft picks more coachable and mentorable than the last few?  Reinhart and Eichel had powerful dads that probably ruined damn near everything. Just like ROR. 
 

Cozens has a humble upbringing. Dahlin has a humble upbringing. Power seems like a diva, but he’s squarely behind Dahlin and that’s more motivational drive than anything money can buy when it comes to guys like him. 

And there’s a coach who has done decades worth of player development as their coach. 
 

im hopeful. 

Power isn't a Diva, lol.  Where is this coming from?

[nucci]

7 hours ago, klos1963 said:

Well of course, that goes without saying.

well, this is the Sabres so.....

[I-90 W]

Whenever we seem to get veterans for their presence in FA, it never seems to work. We did that through the last 10 years and had no leadership anyway. I get the logic but it hasn’t worked. Just let the kids play.

[Hoss]

22 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I wouldn't be so sure he's gone. He's going to miss the first month/month and a half which isn't very conducive to contract signing.

 

20 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

All this tells us is that Jake wants to see what is out there, as he should.

If I were a betting man, I bet he signs with the Sabres, which would be good, IMO.

The priority has to be Linus.  It appears that the spinner of tales, who shall be nameless, is doing just that in regards to a Linus signing.

I’d be interested in the percentage of times a team has said a player wants to test the market and “see what’s out there” and they returned to their original team. I’d bet that percentage is very low. I wouldn’t expect Jake back.

[thewookie1]

35 minutes ago, Hoss said:

 

I’d be interested in the percentage of times a team has said a player wants to test the market and “see what’s out there” and they returned to their original team. I’d bet that percentage is very low. I wouldn’t expect Jake back.

I would say the main reason he'd be back is due to his injury status

[Torpedo Forecheck]

As was said before, the vets need to be on the ice and producing. Just being a resume guy, " played 13 years in the NHL, 36 years of age, 3 time all star", now in street clothes is not enough. 

[Archie Lee]

Nick Bonino for a year would be ok. He has played on winners most of his career. Can play wing if we go young at centre and can move to centre in times where it is getting overwhelming for the kids. 

[Drag0nDan]

22 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Are the new high draft picks more coachable and mentorable than the last few?  Reinhart and Eichel had powerful dads that probably ruined damn near everything. Just like ROR. 
 

Cozens has a humble upbringing. Dahlin has a humble upbringing. Power seems like a diva, but he’s squarely behind Dahlin and that’s more motivational drive than anything money can buy when it comes to guys like him. 

And there’s a coach who has done decades worth of player development as their coach. 
 

Just need vets willing to put in the effort like Gionta and the sponges ready to soak it in. Players like Eichel and Reinhart floated. 
 

im hopeful. 

Power seems like a Diva?

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Hoss said:

 

I’d be interested in the percentage of times a team has said a player wants to test the market and “see what’s out there” and they returned to their original team. I’d bet that percentage is very low. I wouldn’t expect Jake back.

It's up there with "they'll draft the player such and such team wants and trade him to that team" and offer sheets. 

[Drag0nDan]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

It's up there with "they'll draft the player such and such team wants and trade him to that team" and offer sheets. 

I think people do test the market and return.  It depends on the interest that they get, sometimes the offer they originally got was better than anything on the open market etc.

Offer sheets are so tricky for so a couple of reasons

A - There has to be a mutual interest.  Buffalo can't just - send one over the wall and the player has to come here.  It's negotiated with his agent, and Buffalo probably doesn't even get interviews with these players during the window.  

B - The draft compensation in those deals is insane.  Lots of teams can't even submit them for players as they don't have the requisite picks: https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator.  

[Brawndo]

On 7/25/2021 at 3:01 PM, pi2000 said:

IMO the "veteran leadership" mantra is an outdated concept in todays NHL.

Did Brian Gionta or Josh Gorges help?   

IMO if you have the right coach and players with the right character, you don't need a veteran presence.

The Voices of Gionta and Gorges were drowned out by Kane and Bogo unfortunately. 

[Drag0nDan]

23 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The Voices of Gionta and Gorges were drowned out by Kane and Bogo unfortunately. 

Kane and Bogo... I know the pieces we gave up didn't like break the team - but man if Kane didn't destroy that locker room.  Bogo always seemed unhappy and injured.  Which is a great example to set.  As for Kane it's fine to party, but it seemed like all the GMTM sabres did was party.  Kane had multiple legal issues, Lehner had his issues, i heard similar stories about girgensons and reinhart etc.  

When someone tells you a story about reinhart or eichel and partying its like... i don't want to believe it to be true.  But in my heart.. unfortunately I do.  

[Hoss]

10 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I would say the main reason he'd be back is due to his injury status

With all the tampering already going on McCabe knows whether or not he’s got interest out there. A good team will buy low on him.

35 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The Voices of Gionta and Gorges were drowned out by Kane and Bogo unfortunately. 

So now Bogo was a bad leader?

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

It's up there with "they'll draft the player such and such team wants and trade him to that team" and offer sheets. 

I wish the latter were common. It’d make hockey offseasons so much more fun and would hold teams accountable for constantly short-terming good players.

[Thorner]

Just now, Hoss said:

With all the tampering already going on McCabe knows whether or not he’s got interest out there. A good team will buy low on him.

So now Bogo was a bad leader?

A good team is right. And that's where he'd be most valuable - if a team doesn't have to strictly count on him to be in the lineup, and have some depth, the minutes he does provide are plug and play valuable 

[Hoss]

Just now, Thorny said:

A good team is right. And that's where he'd be most valuable - if a team doesn't have to strictly count on him to be in the lineup, and have some depth, the minutes he does provide are plug and play valuable 

I have long been a huge McCabe fan (and not just because he helped me win @tom webster’s contest several years back. I think he’s a confident and good player and a leader. A team will get him on a one year deal and when he’s healthy he’ll slot in on their second pairing. I COULD see him picking a middling team that offers more money and more guaranteed opportunity, as well.

[Drag0nDan]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

With all the tampering already going on McCabe knows whether or not he’s got interest out there. A good team will buy low on him.

So now Bogo was a bad leader?

I wish the latter were common. It’d make hockey offseasons so much more fun and would hold teams accountable for constantly short-terming good players.

Do you have examples of Bogo being a good leader?  I feel like Winnipeg knew something we didn't in that trade.  That Bogo was damaged goods, and Kane was a nut.  

[darksabre]

40 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The Voices of Gionta and Gorges were drowned out by Kane and Bogo unfortunately. 

I'd be interested in revisiting all the stuff that came out back then about how there was a divide in the locker room between Jack and the vets like Gionta. I believe I was critical of Gionta at the time but maybe I was wrong...

[Hoss]

Just now, Drag0nDan said:

Do you have examples of Bogo being a good leader?  I feel like Winnipeg knew something we didn't in that trade.  That Bogo was damaged goods, and Kane was a nut.  

I didn’t say he was a good leader necessarily though by all accounts that I’ve heard he is a good guy. Doesn’t mean good leader but I’ve never heard he was a bad influence.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I didn’t say he was a good leader necessarily though by all accounts that I’ve heard he is a good guy. Doesn’t mean good leader but I’ve never heard he was a bad influence.

I don't think I'd say he's a bad influence either, merely, of influence, being a vet. And that if he "sided" with Jack in any kind of locker room divide, he'd add weight to the issue 

But I don't know that we've ever seen it proven there was a divide at all tbh

It's kind of been rumored and spoken into existence, though 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thorny

[darksabre]

18 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I'd be interested in revisiting all the stuff that came out back then about how there was a divide in the locker room between Jack and the vets like Gionta. I believe I was critical of Gionta at the time but maybe I was wrong...

This thread has some interesting stuff 

 

 

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, darksabre said:

This thread has some interesting stuff 

 

 

I think KA has come to the same conclusions some of us had 4 years ago.

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think KA has come to the same conclusions some of us had 4 years ago.

PA predicting there might be another tank. Oof. https://www.sabrespace.com/community/topic/25281-housley-with-some-really-strong-words-postgame/?do=findComment&comment=989246