Face it, the plan for next year is another tank

[apuszczalowski]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

For next year's roster if the goal is to win now, sure. But it's not - the roster is too far down this path imo to be anything other than a roster designed with other intentions. Adams is asking for futures for Eichel - the future is where his sights are set, as a priority. In that sense, I think a 1C is the most important because it's a harder asset to acquire, our system is barren, we have 3 goalies with starter potential in a few years (though Levi may be a stretch) and zero centres in the pipeline with even NHL potential, depending on how you feel about Pekar. 

We still need what Eichel represents: a 1C. Need another guy with that potential in the system rather than relying solely on Cozens and Casey. 

I'd certainly rather be aiming for wins next year, I just don't think it's what they are focused on. 

But a 1C can be found in the draft next year when they are picking near the top again. They need a goalie to keep them in games and take the pressure off the young kids so they can be in some games. Without one players are going to be forced to have to cover up for weak goaltending along with trying to play their position like normal. Getting a good goalie for next year isn't going to be the difference between a high lottery pick and a playoff team, but it will also keep the younger goalies in the minors where they can work and develop more so they aren't forced to come up early. Goalies can be headcases and fragile mentally that they can have their development wrecked by having too much pressure or playing too early in the league.

They have done nothing having an actual 1C in Eichel, but they haven't had a solid, dependable goalie since they dealt Miller

[SabresVet]

32 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

This is exactly what KA should be doing with free agency, absolutely nothing.   For once, we're doing it right.   At some point the time line to spend the money has to be appropriate. 

Otherwise we're right back where we were.  Totally suck and have no cap.  

The only thing we should be doing is finding an adequate short term goalie.  That's the only thing I'd be willing to marginally spend on.

What will be interesting to watch is whether you can say that mid-season if they're a dumpster fire.  Not all rebuilds are created equally.  

Key is, does ownership empower their hand-picked GM to make the moves necessary or do they retreat into self-imposed issues if there's signs of life next season.  I'm not saying you're spending on UFAs, but re-signing those who prove they're integral to future winning. 

[Thorner]

46 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

But a 1C can be found in the draft next year when they are picking near the top again. They need a goalie to keep them in games and take the pressure off the young kids so they can be in some games. Without one players are going to be forced to have to cover up for weak goaltending along with trying to play their position like normal. Getting a good goalie for next year isn't going to be the difference between a high lottery pick and a playoff team, but it will also keep the younger goalies in the minors where they can work and develop more so they aren't forced to come up early. Goalies can be headcases and fragile mentally that they can have their development wrecked by having too much pressure or playing too early in the league.

They have done nothing having an actual 1C in Eichel, but they haven't had a solid, dependable goalie since they dealt Miller

Goalies are notoriously shaky assets. There are maybe a handful of surefire G prospects. We can't and won't trade a franchise 1C for a package where the best asset back is a goalie 

I agree they need good goalies - and we didn't get them. They need them to protect this roster and not finding something better than what KA seems to have gotten so far is a huge mistake to me. 

My point is that the Eichel deal specifically is targeting the 1C. Pretty clear now, anyways. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Thorny

[Doohicksie]

I'm all in.

Tank Away!

 

[Flashsabre]

Who wants Power to play for the Sabres this season?  I live in Toronto, I will drive him to Michigan myself.😜

[IKnowPhysics]

Andersen, Dell, UPL, and Tokarski?  I'm in.  Start cranking.  Let's get this ***** started.  Straight to the bottom we go.

 

[dudacek]

Still any doubters out there?

Come on, speak up. Don’t be shy.

[apuszczalowski]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Goalies are notoriously shaky assets. There are maybe a handful of surefire G prospects. We can't and won't trade a franchise 1C for a package where the best asset back is a goalie 

I agree they need good goalies - and we didn't get them. They need them to protect this roster and not finding something better than what KA seems to have gotten so far is a huge mistake to me. 

My point is that the Eichel deal specifically is targeting the 1C. Pretty clear now, anyways. 

But getting a proven, or atleast a likely franchise goalie in a trade will help more then a potential 1C which can be found in the draft next year when there is a very good chance they are picking top 5. They aren't getting a replacement 1C in an Eichel deal unless its a prospect with the potential to eventually be one which again, they can get in the draft next year and not really be set back much in development. Its much harder to get a good starting goalie in the draft and takes longer for them to develop. Teams need solid goaltending to succeed and it will be much more beneficial to the development of the roster to have someone solid in place then to have a mediocre goalie in place with a 1C

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

But getting a proven, or atleast a likely franchise goalie in a trade will help more then a potential 1C which can be found in the draft next year when there is a very good chance they are picking top 5. They aren't getting a replacement 1C in an Eichel deal unless its a prospect with the potential to eventually be one which again, they can get in the draft next year and not really be set back much in development. Its much harder to get a good starting goalie in the draft and takes longer for them to develop. Teams need solid goaltending to succeed and it will be much more beneficial to the development of the roster to have someone solid in place then to have a mediocre goalie in place with a 1C

You know what? Ya. Fine - Trade Eichel for Gibson, a first, and comtois. Gibson the centre piece. Have at it haha

Who is the goalie you are trading him for? Vasilevskiy?

[Thorner]

The reigning vezina winner just got dealt for cap room, should we have traded Jack to Vegas for him?

I need a prospect name here that works more than a Zegras 

[apuszczalowski]

40 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The reigning vezina winner just got dealt for cap room, should we have traded Jack to Vegas for him?

I need a prospect name here that works more than a Zegras 

Well who is the 1C that they are trading Eichel for again?

Because it seems like all the ones being proposed from the Rangers, Kings, Wild, Ducks, etc. are all being told are off limits in a deal or if they were available a deal might have been done already.

And since Eichel, a #2 overall pick that we were all being told was such a great consolation prize for not getting McDavid, didn't move the needle here in getting this team near the playoffs for his career, Other teams will just be lining up to give someone who could fill that role here

[sabresparaavida]

The plan has now become clear to me: Tank for the next two years and finish last in the next 2 seasons. Draft Wright and Bedrard. In 3 years run 

Mitts-Wright-Quinn

Poltipov-Bedrard-JJP

Asplund-Cozens-Thompson

whatever-R2-whatever

 

Dahlin-Joki

Power-???

Samuellson-Bryson? 
 

UPL?

Levi?

Portillo?

 

 

[I-90 W]

If we can get Rossi and Kahkonen from the Wild then this thing is still salvageable. 

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

Well who is the 1C that they are trading Eichel for again?

Because it seems like all the ones being proposed from the Rangers, Kings, Wild, Ducks, etc. are all being told are off limits in a deal or if they were available a deal might have been done already.

And since Eichel, a #2 overall pick that we were all being told was such a great consolation prize for not getting McDavid, didn't move the needle here in getting this team near the playoffs for his career, Other teams will just be lining up to give someone who could fill that role here

My point is that if you take the top G prospect in the NHL, it’s not worth as much as the top centre prospect - goalies are too unpredictable  

You just don’t see goalie prospects at the top of prospect lists. And we certainly can’t trade both Eichel and Reinhart for returns where a goalie is the main piece. 

[triumph_communes]

I don’t think they’ll be as bad as some think, assuming a few more gaps filled in

[nucci]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

I don’t think they’ll be as bad as some think, assuming a few more gaps filled in

How do you plan on filling these gaps? Not much left and no one wants to be here. We signed a 40 yo goalie!

[triumph_communes]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

How do you plan on filling these gaps? Not much left and no one wants to be here. We signed a 40 yo goalie!

Assume 1C is Eichel or from Eichel trade 

Need a 2nd/3rd pair LD to step up or be signed. There’s plenty

Plenty of middle-6 players out there still too

Goalie is the gap. I wouldn’t freak out yet. 

[Thorner]

21 minutes ago, nucci said:

How do you plan on filling these gaps? Not much left and no one wants to be here. We signed a 40 yo goalie!

Yup. Like you said in the other thread, people are looking for positives - but I mean, I hate the strategy we are employing with a passion, but even I’ll admit the thought that this is by design, and Adams has a plan and we brought in all these guys because we don’t really care about winning, is preferable to the thought Adams was daft enough to think he could trade all his best players and field a competitive team through FA. Like by far.

One I consider to be a poor strategy that could potentially still work, the other results in us being run by someone who is incompetent  

If you want a positive, believe in the tank rebuild and see that Adams tore the roster down more than satisfactorily 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Thorny

[TheAud]

6 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Assume 1C is Eichel or from Eichel trade 

Need a 2nd/3rd pair LD to step up or be signed. There’s plenty

Plenty of middle-6 players out there still too

Goalie is the gap. I wouldn’t freak out yet. 

Interesting. So you think GMKA should sign another LD or two? 

[nucci]

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Yup. Like you said in the other thread, people are looking for positives - but I mean, I hate the strategy we are employing with a passion, but even I’ll admit the thought that this is by design, and Adams has a plan and we brought in all these guys because we don’t really care about winning, is preferable to the thought Adams was daft enough to think he could trade all his best players and field a competitive team through FA. Like by far.

One I consider to be a poor strategy that could potentially still work, the other results in us being run by someone who is incompetent  

If you want a positive, believe in the tank rebuild and see that Adams tore the roster down more than satisfactorily 

Good points but we have been bad for so long it is difficult to think that this time it will work. 

[Randall Flagg]

7 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

The plan has now become clear to me: Tank for the next two years and finish last in the next 2 seasons. Draft Wright and Bedrard. In 3 years run 

Mitts-Wright-Quinn

Poltipov-Bedrard-JJP

Asplund-Cozens-Thompson

whatever-R2-whatever

 

Dahlin-Joki

Power-???

Samuellson-Bryson? 
 

UPL?

Levi?

Portillo?

 

 

Lol, even if you could guarantee a last place finish in two consecutive years, your chance of getting Wright AND Bedard is a whopping 3%

[WildCard]

Didn't they change the tank rules too? If we come in last, we're not guaranteed to get Savoie either right?

[nucci]

7 hours ago, sabresparaavida said:

The plan has now become clear to me: Tank for the next two years and finish last in the next 2 seasons. Draft Wright and Bedrard. In 3 years run 

Mitts-Wright-Quinn

Poltipov-Bedrard-JJP

Asplund-Cozens-Thompson

whatever-R2-whatever

 

Dahlin-Joki

Power-???

Samuellson-Bryson? 
 

UPL?

Levi?

Portillo?

 

 

if they finish last the next 2 years the fan base will be pretty much gone. Lottery rules are also changing so less of a chance to get 1st pick

[Hoss]

13 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Didn't they change the tank rules too? If we come in last, we're not guaranteed to get Savoie either right?

You weren’t before either.

The top three were drawn. Now only two lotteries are drawn meaning the worst team is guaranteed a top three pick instead of a top four pick.

Teams can also only move up a max of ten spots.

The odds of the last team getting the first pick have gone up because of the new rules.

7 minutes ago, nucci said:

if they finish last the next 2 years the fan base will be pretty much gone. Lottery rules are also changing so less of a chance to get 1st pick

False, the new rules increase the chance of the last place team getting the first pick.

[WildCard]

Just now, Hoss said:

You weren’t before either.

The top three were drawn. Now only two lotteries are drawn meaning the worst team is guaranteed a top three pick instead of a top four pick.

Teams can also only move up a max of ten spots.

The odds of the last team getting the first pick have gone up because of the new rules.

Well we were when we got Jack, but yeah I know they changed them since. I believe that's what you're referring to as 'before', meaning the most current lottery in which we won Power.

If I'm reading you correctly then, tanking sounds more incentivized than it used to.