inkman Posted July 21, 2021 Report Posted July 21, 2021 1 minute ago, The Jokeman said: Do you think St Louis is glad they took Eric Johnson over Jonathan Towels or Phil Kessel in 2006? I'm sorry but the need to score is a bigger need to me. Good to great defenseman only as good as the goalie behind them. Power isn’t the best player available as well Quote
The Jokeman Posted July 21, 2021 Report Posted July 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, inkman said: Power isn’t the best player available as well I agree I think Beniers is the best player available. Quote
LGR4GM Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Posted July 22, 2021 26 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: Do you think St Louis is glad they took Eric Johnson over Jonathan Towels or Phil Kessel in 2006? I'm sorry but the need to score is a bigger need to me. Good to great defenseman only as good as the goalie behind them. It's far easier to find defense later than scoring 1 Quote
Randall Flagg Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 @dudacek even I wasn't expecting inkman to think so highly of Borgen. Does this raise your optimism of his game at all? Quote
dudacek Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Taro T said: Define "significant." The 2 propositions aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Will Borgen at present is a 3rd pairing D and he MIGHT be a 2nd pairing stay at home guy. That could be a valuable commodity for the Sabres (or somebody else) in the near future as the Sabres perennially need at least 1 more good stay at home defenseman than they have. And '21-'22 is shaping up to follow that pattern as the only healthy SaH D-man they have is a raw rookie (with a great pedigree). But Seattle just got to take the 4th best (in most cases aka a 2nd pairing) D-man from about 1/2 the league. So, though the Sabres might miss him, he doesn't necessarily make Seattle's squad. Nobody is saying that Borgen will be the 2nd coming of Mike Ramsey nor even Jake McCabe. But that doesn't mean he would not be useful this season nor that he won't be even more useful the next few seasons. It's the potential that people are mourning (for lack of a better term). IF the Sabres take Power, in 2-3 years this could be a very imposing D with 2 (hopefully) studs, 2 solid stay at home guys, & 2 decent puck movers (2 of Jokiharju, Johnson, Bryson, & Pilut) & 2 of those as spares. Get goaltending & we might have something to work with. The draft is designed to remove the 11th-best player from each team. I would define “Significant” as a player who would have been protected by a majority of teams. I would suggest you would struggle to find many teams who would have protected Borgen. Borgen defines the type of player you would expect to lose. 29 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: @dudacek even I wasn't expecting inkman to think so highly of Borgen. Does this raise your optimism of his game at all? I love Will Borgen. The concept of Will is exactly what I want in my #6 and from what I’ve seen of Will, I think he will get there. I agree with Inky. I’m pissed he’s gone. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right move for the Sabres 2 Quote
Andrew Amerk Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 43 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: @dudacek even I wasn't expecting inkman to think so highly of Borgen. Does this raise your optimism of his game at all? 7 minutes ago, dudacek said: I love Will Borgen. The concept of Will is exactly what I want in my #6 and from what I’ve seen of Will, I think he will get there. I agree with Inky. I’m pissed he’s gone. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right move for the Sabres I liked what I saw from Borgen in the Amerks games I attended. Everything you’d like to see in bottom pairing defender. With the amount of D that Seattle picked, maybe he gets waived and picked back up by Buffalo. The Sabres had to lose someone, and losing him is probably better than losing Miller and a pick, or Risto for nothing. 2 1 Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, YouDigg said: https://www.nhl.com/news/instant-analysis-of-initial-seattle-kraken-roster/c-325723364?tid=289242400 Borgen isn’t even mentioned in nhl.com’s instant analysis of the new Kraken team… He is probably their 10th best D. Waivers here we come. 1 Quote
JoeSchmoe Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: He is probably their 10th best D. Waivers here we come. Will they have to waive him if he doesn't crack the roster? Quote
GASabresIUFAN Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 Just now, JoeSchmoe said: Will they have to waive him if he doesn't crack the roster? To send him to the minors yes. He could be traded. Quote
JoeSchmoe Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 Just now, GASabresIUFAN said: To send him to the minors yes. He could be traded. I haven't been following all the threads, but with all the cap space leftover, could Borgen and the 2OA be part of a package to take a run at Eichel? Does Reinhart for the 2OA plus Borgen get it done? Quote
woods-racer Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: To send him to the minors yes. He could be traded. How much is he worth? Quote
SDS Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 1 minute ago, woods-racer said: How much is he worth? If he’s not going to crack the top eight def players on an expansion team, then it’s probably not much. 2 Quote
LGR4GM Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Posted July 22, 2021 6 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said: I haven't been following all the threads, but with all the cap space leftover, could Borgen and the 2OA be part of a package to take a run at Eichel? Does Reinhart for the 2OA plus Borgen get it done? No. Borgen isn't really worth much. Quote
woods-racer Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 1 minute ago, SDS said: If he’s not going to crack the top eight def players on an expansion team, then it’s probably not much. So we didn't lose much, and it won't take much to get him back if we want him. Took six pages in a thread to get to this point. 1 Quote
pi2000 Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 I might be wrong, but I don't believe he has to clear waivers on the way down if done so before a certain date. Quote
JoeSchmoe Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: No. Borgen isn't really worth much. For sure he's not worth much... But as a (very) minor piece of a larger deal that includes the 2OA he could be. This isn't really about Borgen, but more about the Kraken cap space, their lack of a number 1 C, and their 2OA trade chip. Quote
woods-racer Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, pi2000 said: I might be wrong, but I don't believe he has to clear waivers on the way down if done so before a certain date. I must have read 5 articles on the rules for expansion draft. I have yet to see anything written about waivers. Is there an NHL version that is out that lists all the rules that I missed? Quote
LGR4GM Posted July 22, 2021 Author Report Posted July 22, 2021 20 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said: For sure he's not worth much... But as a (very) minor piece of a larger deal that includes the 2OA he could be. This isn't really about Borgen, but more about the Kraken cap space, their lack of a number 1 C, and their 2OA trade chip. Not interested Quote
dudacek Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 52 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said: I haven't been following all the threads, but with all the cap space leftover, could Borgen and the 2OA be part of a package to take a run at Eichel? Does Reinhart for the 2OA plus Borgen get it done? 2nd overall is too much for Sam and not enough for Jack. It qualifies for the main piece, but the Kraken don’t have the secondary pieces the Sabres are reportedly looking for. Quote
Curt Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 6 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said: For sure he's not worth much... But as a (very) minor piece of a larger deal that includes the 2OA he could be. This isn't really about Borgen, but more about the Kraken cap space, their lack of a number 1 C, and their 2OA trade chip. Kraken are not going to trade #2 overall. 1) High picks are almost never traded. 2) They are not going to trade away their first draft pick in franchise history. Quote
Weave Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 42 minutes ago, Curt said: 2) They are not going to trade away their first draft pick in franchise history. Would be a helluva story, innit? Quote
Taro T Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 8 hours ago, pi2000 said: I might be wrong, but I don't believe he has to clear waivers on the way down if done so before a certain date. ALL players (with exceptions for young, inexperienced players) must clear ordinary waivers to be sent to the AHL. After they've cleared waivers, if they are recalled they can be sent back down that season without reclearing waivers provided they haven't been back up for more than 30 days nor played in 10 games since being recalled. Quote
inkman Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 8 hours ago, dudacek said: 2nd overall is too much for Sam and not enough for Jack. It qualifies for the main piece, but the Kraken don’t have the secondary pieces the Sabres are reportedly looking for. I think if Beniers becomes Reinhart, whoever drafts him will be thrilled. Quote
Huckleberry Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 Perfect, unless he gets traded, if they waive him we claim him again. Quote
Taro T Posted July 22, 2021 Report Posted July 22, 2021 29 minutes ago, Huckleberry said: Perfect, unless he gets traded, if they waive him we claim him again. A team with Botterill giving input into roster building losing a guy for absolutely nothing?!?!? Ludicrous!!!! Sabres might have that one in the bag. 😉 Quote
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