Shopping Jack Eichel: New York

[Rasmus_]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

I actually think there are multiple Ranger options that are pretty good.  They are not my preferred trade partner for many reasons, but they have some great pieces that make sense if there is no team that is offering what we have identified as that single elite prospect that should be the starting point for a deal.

I don't agree at all on the St. Louis / O'Reilly comparison.  To begin with, the Rangers simply don't have any players in the Berglund/Sobotka category that could be included in the deal.  Strome is the one bigger contract that might have to come our way for salary reasons.  He has 108 points in 126 games over the past two seasons and has one year at $4.5 million left on his deal.  There is no comparison between him and the Blues' cap dumps.  If the Sabres were willing to retain 50% on Strome's contract, there would be at least a dozen NHL teams interested in him I would think. 

After Strome, even if you take out the big three of Laf, Kaako and Miller, it leaves a large pool of good young players in Chytil, Kravtsov, Lundkvist, Schneider and Georgiev; just to name the most prominent.

A trade of Eichel, the rights to Ryan Johnson and a depth goalie (Tokarski) for: Strome, Chytil, Schneider, Georgiev and a 1st, would be a fine return in my opinion. While there is risk to be sure in any trade that focuses on multiple pieces; it is also the case that there are no guarantees around prospects like Zegras, Rossi or Krebs.

I really think, at this point, that the Eichel trade will be about asset accumulation. If the Sabres were to make this trade with the Rangers, they would have the following 1st round picks since 2016 in their system:

Dahlin #1, 2018

Power #1, 2021

Cozens #7, 2019

Mittelstadt #8, 2017

Quinn #8, 2020

Rosen #14, 2021

Schneider #19, 2020

Chytil #21, 2017

Thompson #26, 2016

Jokiharju #29, 2017

That's 10 first round picks from the past 6 drafts with three additional 1st round picks coming in 2022 to go along with additional higher-end prospects like Ruotsalainen, Luukkonen, Samuelsson and Peterka. 

That would provide us with a combination of young NHL talent, prospect talent and draft capital at a level that we frankly never had before or after the tank years.

Sorry, a return of Strome whose main points totals have been at the benefit of playing with Panarin, isn't a more than a third line center.  Chytil, is maybe a second line center.  Schneider is so far down their depth chart of prospects, that it's not even remotely interesting.  Georgiev, is on an expiring deal and there is no guarantee he will sign here long term.  Lastly, a first is fine.  However, this trade package is garbage.   Furthermore, trading him in conference, should warrant a higher yield.   To me, this is a settling for scraps mindset.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

I actually think there are multiple Ranger options that are pretty good.  They are not my preferred trade partner for many reasons, but they have some great pieces that make sense if there is no team that is offering what we have identified as that single elite prospect that should be the starting point for a deal.

I don't agree at all on the St. Louis / O'Reilly comparison.  To begin with, the Rangers simply don't have any players in the Berglund/Sobotka category that could be included in the deal.  Strome is the one bigger contract that might have to come our way for salary reasons.  He has 108 points in 126 games over the past two seasons and has one year at $4.5 million left on his deal.  There is no comparison between him and the Blues' cap dumps.  If the Sabres were willing to retain 50% on Strome's contract, there would be at least a dozen NHL teams interested in him I would think. 

After Strome, even if you take out the big three of Laf, Kaako and Miller, it leaves a large pool of good young players in Chytil, Kravtsov, Lundkvist, Schneider and Georgiev; just to name the most prominent.

A trade of Eichel, the rights to Ryan Johnson and a depth goalie (Tokarski) for: Strome, Chytil, Schneider, Georgiev and a 1st, would be a fine return in my opinion. While there is risk to be sure in any trade that focuses on multiple pieces; it is also the case that there are no guarantees around prospects like Zegras, Rossi or Krebs.

I really think, at this point, that the Eichel trade will be about asset accumulation. If the Sabres were to make this trade with the Rangers, they would have the following 1st round picks since 2016 in their system:

Dahlin #1, 2018

Power #1, 2021

Cozens #7, 2019

Mittelstadt #8, 2017

Quinn #8, 2020

Rosen #14, 2021

Schneider #19, 2020

Chytil #21, 2017

Thompson #26, 2016

Jokiharju #29, 2017

That's 10 first round picks from the past 6 drafts with three additional 1st round picks coming in 2022 to go along with additional higher-end prospects like Ruotsalainen, Luukkonen, Samuelsson and Peterka. 

That would provide us with a combination of young NHL talent, prospect talent and draft capital at a level that we frankly never had before or after the tank years.

Personally, I’m not including Johnson as an Eichel trade thrown in.  He is a 1st round pick who is developing well.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Curt

[Curt]

22 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

Sorry, a return of Strome whose main points totals have been at the benefit of playing with Panarin, isn't a more than a third line center.  Chytil, is maybe a second line center.  Schneider is so far down their depth chart of prospects, that it's not even remotely interesting.  Georgiev, is on an expiring deal and there is no guarantee he will sign here long term.  Lastly, a first is fine.  However, this trade package is garbage.   Furthermore, trading him in conference, should warrant a higher yield.   To me, this is a settling for scraps mindset.

Schneider is a very good prospect.  Like a right handed Samuelsson, with a little less size and a little more offense.

[Rasmus_]

13 minutes ago, Curt said:

Schneider is a very good prospect.  Like a right handed Samuelsson, with a little less size and a little more offense.

It still doesn't take away from the fact that this offer, is a piss poor return for Jack Eichel.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Rasmus_ said:

It still doesn't take away from the fact that this offer, is a piss poor return for Jack Eichel.

I wasn’t commenting on the proposed trade.

I was only challenging your assessment of Schneider as a prospect.

[Archie Lee]

12 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

It still doesn't take away from the fact that this offer, is a piss poor return for Jack Eichel.

I guess we will see what we eventually receive.  We might get a return that includes 1 higher end prospect (Zegras, Rossi, Krebs), but that will put a lot of pressure on that prospect as "the player" we obtained for Jack Eichel.

My proposal is the equivalent of five 1st round picks (in my view).  Chytil, Schneider and the 1st are obvious 1st round equivalents.  There might be debate over Georgiev and Strome, but I think they equal two firsts (or very close).  Since arriving in NY, Strome has produced at basically the same level as Reinhart; I don't think know why this would be dismissed as the Panarin effect when he has not likely played more with Panarin than Reinhart got to play with Eichel.

That we are getting the equivalent of five first round picks is why I included Johnson as part of the deal.  He's not a throw in; he's included because:

- All of the assets obtained from the NYR are in areas of more urgent organizational requirement (centre, RD, goal)

- Johnson is one of only four 1st round picks in the entire 2018 and 2019 NHL draft classes who has yet to sign an NHL contract; I'm not too worried about this, but Schneider is signed and ready to play in Rochester next year.

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Archie Lee

[Rasmus_]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I guess we will see what we eventually receive.  We might get a return that includes 1 higher end prospect (Zegras, Rossi, Krebs), but that will put a lot of pressure on that prospect as "the player" we obtained for Jack Eichel.

My proposal is the equivalent of five 1st round picks (in my view).  Chytil, Schneider and the 1st are obvious 1st round equivalents.  There might be debate over Georgiev and Strome, but I think they equal two firsts (or very close).  Since arriving in NY, Strome has produced at basically the same level as Reinhart; I don't think know why this would be dismissed as the Panarin effect when he has not likely played more with Panarin than Reinhart got to play with Eichel.

That we are getting the equivalent of five first round picks is why I included Johnson as part of the deal.  He's not a throw in; he's included because:

- All of the assets obtained from the NYR are in areas of more urgent organizational requirement (centre, RD, goal)

- Johnson is one of only four 1st round picks in the entire 2018 and 2019 NHL draft classes who has yet to sign an NHL contract; I'm not too worried about this, but Schneider is signed and ready to play in Rochester next year.

 

 

 

That doesn't equate to the fact that former 1st round grades doesn't mean *****.  Yakupov, was a 1st overall pick, who is a complete bust, if he was in the deal, I wouldn't consider him a 7th.  Valuing draft status, means zilch in the return of tangible talent. Also, we shouldn't be giving up any additional assets in the Eichel return.  Unless the players in question are off the main roster that are expendable. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Rasmus_

[Archie Lee]

3 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

That doesn't equate to the fact that former 1st round grades doesn't mean *****.  Yakupov, was a 1st overall pick, who is a complete bust, if he was in the deal, I wouldn't consider him a 7th.  Valuing draft status, means zilch in the return of tangible talent. Also, we shouldn't be giving up any additional assets in the Eichel return.  Unless the players in question are off the main roster that are expendable. 

I completely agree.  There is no guarantee though that Rossi or Krebs won't bust. There was a time when Yakupov was as highly regarded, likely more so, as a prospect than either of those two.  

 

[Curt]

19 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

That doesn't equate to the fact that former 1st round grades doesn't mean *****.  Yakupov, was a 1st overall pick, who is a complete bust, if he was in the deal, I wouldn't consider him a 7th.  Valuing draft status, means zilch in the return of tangible talent. Also, we shouldn't be giving up any additional assets in the Eichel return.  Unless the players in question are off the main roster that are expendable. 

No one was using former draft spot to determine the current trade value of players.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Curt

[dudacek]

12 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

That doesn't equate to the fact that former 1st round grades doesn't mean *****.  Yakupov, was a 1st overall pick, who is a complete bust, if he was in the deal, I wouldn't consider him a 7th.  Valuing draft status, means zilch in the return of tangible talent. Also, we shouldn't be giving up any additional assets in the Eichel return.  Unless the players in question are off the main roster that are expendable. 

Not sure if you are one of those “not NY, no matter what the cost” posters, but I think you are drastically under-rating that package.

Chytil is legit. He’s played 3 NHL seasons and he’s only 21 and shown the ability to score close to a 40-point pace as a 3C with no PP time. Schneider is a very good NHL prospect with a profile that fills a huge organizational need. The 1st is a 1st.

They are a very good comparison to what Wilson, Peca and McKee were at the time of the Mogilny trade.

Plus you are getting two legit NHLers who fill current holes in our roster.

It’s become increasingly clear that no Eichel return is going to be “good” but it’s hardly garbage.

[Digger]

What's up with all the interest in the NY Rangers trade option today?  There really hasn't been any news of a fair value offer for Eichel and GM Drury coming out saying they have not really been in deep with any trade offers for him this off season.

Vegas and Minnesota still look to me to be the best trading partners.  Minnesota needs to work through arbitration for Fiala who wants big money and Kaprizov who wants a short term big money contract.  This is what is holding up the Eichel trade in my opinion.

[Archie Lee]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not sure if you are one of those “not NY, no matter what the cost” posters, but I think you are drastically under-rating that package.

Chytil is legit. He’s played 3 NHL seasons and he’s only 21 and shown the ability to score close to a 40-point pace as a 3C with no PP time. Schneider is a very good NHL prospect with a profile that fills a huge organizational need. The 1st is a 1st.

They are a very good comparison to what Wilson, Peca and McKee were at the time of the Mogilny trade.

Plus you are getting two legit NHLers who fill current holes in our roster.

It’s become increasingly clear that no Eichel return is going to be “good” but it’s hardly garbage.

I agree.

Unfortunately, I suspect the current reality is that no team is offering this good of a return.  Indeed, the Rangers would likely view each piece I have listed from them (Strome, Chytil, Schneider, Georgiev and the 1st) as more valuable than Johnson; maybe with the exception of Georgiev.  So you can probably just take Johnson and Schneider out of the trade.  Also, they are not likely to trade both Strome and Chytil in the deal.  Maybe they would if Eichel was sure to be ready from the start of the year.  As is, it would leave them very thin down the middle.  

A more likely offer from NY right now would be Strome, Kravtsov, Georgiev and a 1st.

 

[Gabrielor]

4 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

A trade of Eichel, the rights to Ryan Johnson and a depth goalie (Tokarski) for: Strome, Chytil, Schneider, Georgiev and a 1st, would be a fine return in my opinion. While there is risk to be sure in any trade that focuses on multiple pieces; it is also the case that there are no guarantees around prospects like Zegras, Rossi or Krebs.

bahahahahahahahaha.

 

No. That's a Rangers fan's dream.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, Digger said:

What's up with all the interest in the NY Rangers trade option today?  

Where is “all the interest”?  Twitter? This place?  No one is reporting any interest from NYR at all.  

[Gabrielor]

4 minutes ago, inkman said:

Where is “all the interest”?  Twitter? This place?  No one is reporting any interest from NYR at all.  

It's the echo chamber of their twitter followers and local media that Eichel is guaranteed coming with it won't cost them anything. For about a year now.