Shopping Jack Eichel: New York

[kas23]

33 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I disagree with the poster's memory. I have heard at least a half a dozen analysts and media people involved in hockey say that the Rangers are adamant that they won't include Lafreniere in a trade deal. On WGR I have heard hockey media people who cover the Rangers say on the radio they don't believe the Rangers will include Lafreniere in a trade package for Jack. 

Of course opinions from a variety of sources don't conclusively prove anything one way or the other. But based on the opinions of people who cover the sport and affirmed by people who cover the Rangers the belief is that they are firm in their stance that they are not dealing Lafreniere.  

I think they should absolutely put Lafreniere on the table. They got incredibly lucky and the hockey gods dropped him in their lap. Now just imagine, if at the expense of Lafreniere, they had Jack drop into their lap for basically doing nothing. That’s how the Rag should be viewing trading Lareniere for Jack. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

I think they should absolutely put Lafreniere on the table. They got incredibly lucky and the hockey gods dropped him in their lap. Now just imagine, if at the expense of Lafreniere, they had Jack drop into their lap for basically doing nothing. That’s how the Rag should be viewing trading Lareniere for Jack. 

The Sabre perspective is not the same as the Ranger perspective. As I said in a prior post all indications (from outsiders and those who follow the Rangers) is that they are not willing to put Lafreniere on the trade table. Is that a good decision by them? That's their call. My preference is that Lafreniere be included in a Jack trade. On the other hand the Rangers have many good young players on their current roster and their farm system is loaded with high quality prospects. Would it make sense even if Lafreniere was not included in the package to acquire 4 or 5 players with at least three of them ready to play in the NHL? Maybe? 

[Randall Flagg]

Wherever Jack goes I hope he averages 5 points per game against the Rangers' fifteen immaculate untouchables

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Not to be that guy, but I’d love to see a link.

I’m talking about a Larry Brooks or a Darren Dreger type citing sources, not stating their opinion.

I'm not going back into the WGR vault and go through their shows. I clearly remember more than one media person who covers the Rangers say on the Howard Simon Show that the Rangers are adamant that they will not include Lafreniere in a trade package. One NY reporter stated that the Rangers have a number of talented young players on their roster and their system is loaded with high end prospects. They are receptive to working out a deal with those players. But they have some no touch players. And Lafrienere falls in that unattainable category. 

Could the Rangers' stance change? Maybe. But I wouldn't count on it. 

[dudacek]

Brooks posted a week or so ago that he’d heard the Rangers had offered Kravtsov, Jones, Georgiev and a 1st rounder.

Lavoie was the guy who initially reported the Sabres wanted 4 young pieces, each roughly the equivalent of a 1st-rounder, others have reported Adams has stayed firm on his ask.

Of course, “equivalent of a 1st rounder” can mean anything from Rasmus Dahlin to Tage Thompson so that leaves a ton of wriggle room.

I want to take a deeper look at the Rangers’ pieces to see how they stack up.

[dudacek]

Kravtsov qualifies as a 1st-rounder, but barely.

He was the 9th pick in the 2018 draft. He’s 21, a big, skilled RW.

His stock has clearly dropped since he was picked - he ranks about 25th in his class in terms of games played (20) and NHL points (4). He’s already left NA for Russia once and has not put up significant points at any level, including the KHL.

I don’t think it’s a stretch to compare his stock at this point to Tage Thompson’s at the time of the ROR deal, plus he has the added negative of being a flight risk.

The Hockey News Future Watch poll of NHL scouts ranked him 38th.

Edited August 6, 2021 by dudacek

[dudacek]

Zach Jones probably would not qualify as a 1st-round value, but he’s rising.

He was a 3rd round pick in 2019. He’s 20, a smallish skilled LD.

His stock has improved since the draft. Considering that only about a half-dozen players from the draft have made it as NHL regulars, his 4 points in 10 games after being a late-season signing was impressive. He put up a lot of points in two college seasons.

He’s one of those difficult-to-read prospects who might turn into Torrey Krug or Lawrence Pilut. He’s the type where your scouts will have to earn their money.

He was not ranked in the Future Watch top 100.

[dudacek]

Only the best young goalies warrant 1st-round value in pick or trade. That’s not Georgiev.

He was undrafted. He’s 25 with less than ideal size, but is proven at the NHL level.

He’s been mostly an NHL backup for 4 years and put up average numbers and hasn’t really grabbed the opportunity to be more. He’s asked for a trade, thinking his opportunity to be a #1 is not going to happen with the Rangers. He’s at a bit of a crossroads as to whether he’s headed for a James Reimer type career or whether he can be a starter.

Adin Hill just went for a 2nd rounder, and he is of a similar age with a similar track record.

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Zach Jones probably would not qualify as a 1st-round value, but he’s rising.

He was a 3rd round pick in 2019. He’s 20, a smallish skilled LD.

His stock has improved since the draft. Considering that only about a half-dozen players from the draft have made it as NHL regulars, his 4 points in 10 games after being a late-season signing was impressive. He put up a lot of points in two college seasons.

He’s one of those difficult-to-read prospects who might turn into Torrey Krug or Lawrence Pilut. He’s the type where your scouts will have to earn their money.

He was not ranked in the Future Watch top 100.

Just what we need from the Eichel trade... another Left Handed Defender under 22. That would give us 5 including 2 first overall picks. 

[Hoss]

As a whole the Rangers prospects and pieces are all overrated except Lafreniere but he’s not going to be in the deal. Kakko needs to be in this deal even if I’m not incredibly high on him. I saw a comparison of he and Barkov at this point in their careers and Kakko actually has the edge so that’s the track you hope he takes.

[triumph_communes]

Rangers trades suck

[dudacek]

I’d put that Rangers offer at the rough equivalent of picks 18, 28, 40 and 45.

Which generally means  1-2 NHL players and no guarantee any of them will be a core piece.

Not much risk there for the Rangers at all. Laughable offer.

[dudacek]

Kakko still has 1st-line power forward upside. I’m not high on him, but the skillset is there.

Power forwards take time. He’s ahead of Rantanen at the same age.

Braden Schneider is someone I am very high on. He’s got Risto size, edge and talent. Hopefully he is developed a little better and grows into a steadier player.

Those are two 1st-rounders who will almost certainly play in the NHL for a long time and have the potential to be part of our core.

A deal with those two coming back is something worth talking about.

[Pimlach]

35 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’d put that Rangers offer at the rough equivalent of picks 18, 28, 40 and 45.

Which generally means  1-2 NHL players and no guarantee any of them will be a core piece.

Not much risk there for the Rangers at all. Laughable offer.

Thanks for digging this information out.  Sure confirms my thoughts and comments on the offers Adams would get for an injured player forcing his way out. 

[Eleven]

49 minutes ago, Hoss said:

As a whole the Rangers prospects and pieces are all overrated except Lafreniere but he’s not going to be in the deal.

Then the Rangers don't get Eichel.

I have trouble comprehending the Sabres trading Eichel without getting another team's best prospect back.

Just keep him if that's going to be the case.

[Hoss]

17 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Then the Rangers don't get Eichel.

I have trouble comprehending the Sabres trading Eichel without getting another team's best prospect back.

Just keep him if that's going to be the case.

In general I agree they should be receiving best prospects with ease but one team’s best prospect is much better than the next. If I were in the Rangers position there’s no way I’m trading Lafreniere for Eichel. There’s very few players I’d trade a guy like Lafreniere for.

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

In general I agree they should be receiving best prospects with ease but one team’s best prospect is much better than the next. If I were in the Rangers position there’s no way I’m trading Lafreniere for Eichel. There’s very few players I’d trade a guy like Lafreniere for.

And I'm fine with that.  They just can't have Eichel then.  Well, until July 2026.

[dudacek]

Chytil is an interesting player. Same draft as Mitts.

He's big and fast and plays hard. His point totals — 22 points in 42 games as a no-PP 3C — are pretty good for 21-year-old.

He's got skill but so far the NHL game hasn't slowed down for him; he's not great at setting up his teammates. Really, his game at that moment is a lot like where Zemgus was in his second year: if you squint hard enough, you can project him turning into Ryan Kesler-esque 2C, but he could just as easily be a useful bottom-6er.

I like him, but not as a key piece in an Eichel trade.

[inkman]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Kakko still has 1st-line power forward upside. I’m not high on him, but the skillset is there.

Power forwards take time. He’s ahead of Rantanen at the same age.

Braden Schneider is someone I am very high on. He’s got Risto size, edge and talent. Hopefully he is developed a little better and grows into a steadier player.

Those are two 1st-rounders who will almost certainly play in the NHL for a long time and have the potential to be part of our core.

A deal with those two coming back is something worth talking about.

Power forward how so?  Like Thomas Vanek and just get beat down in front of the net without ever doing anything about it?  I’ve had enough of those guys.  I want the guy cross checking Krappo or Vanek not a receiver of punishment that we have to explain how tough he is because he gets pounded every shift. 

[Marvin]

On 8/6/2021 at 7:15 PM, inkman said:

Power forward how so?  Like Thomas Vanek and just get beat down in front of the net without ever doing anything about it?  I’ve had enough of those guys.  I want the guy cross checking Krappo or Vanek not a receiver of punishment that we have to explain how tough he is because he gets pounded every shift. 

You really need both the guy who takes it (to score more goals) and the guy who dishes it out (to yield fewer goals).  Otherwise, you have perimeter players on offence and no one to clear the crease on defence.

[I-90 W]

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

You really need both the guy who takes it (to score more goals) and the guy who dishes it out (to yield fewer goals).  Otherwise, you have perimeter players on offence and no one to clear the crease on defence.

Not being able (or willing) to clear our crease has haunted us for over a decade. Anyone remember our last playoff appearance against Philly? They camped out in front of our net the entire series. 

[Rasmus_]

**** the Rangers.  I'll trade him to Calgary, any day before I accept Drury's ***** offer.

[sabremike]

To me there is no chance he ends up with the rags as their offer is junk, they clearly have no plans to up it, any other offer can't be worse, we don't want him anywhere in the east and really Vegas makes far too much sense for both parties.

[Gabrielor]

7 hours ago, sabremike said:

To me there is no chance he ends up with the rags as their offer is junk, they clearly have no plans to up it, any other offer can't be worse, we don't want him anywhere in the east and really Vegas makes far too much sense for both parties.

Same.

 

All NYR ideas have only made sense from NYR's perspective, ie, 'let's make our ROR-STL trade with Buffalo!'

 

Vegas is win-win for both. Vegas becomes a heavy favorite, and drafted Krebs. Just need to finish this deal.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Gabrielor said:

Same.

 

All NYR ideas have only made sense from NYR's perspective, ie, 'let's make our ROR-STL trade with Buffalo!'

 

Vegas is win-win for both. Vegas becomes a heavy favorite, and drafted Krebs. Just need to finish this deal.

I actually think there are multiple Ranger options that are pretty good.  They are not my preferred trade partner for many reasons, but they have some great pieces that make sense if there is no team that is offering what we have identified as that single elite prospect that should be the starting point for a deal.

I don't agree at all on the St. Louis / O'Reilly comparison.  To begin with, the Rangers simply don't have any players in the Berglund/Sobotka category that could be included in the deal.  Strome is the one bigger contract that might have to come our way for salary reasons.  He has 108 points in 126 games over the past two seasons and has one year at $4.5 million left on his deal.  There is no comparison between him and the Blues' cap dumps.  If the Sabres were willing to retain 50% on Strome's contract, there would be at least a dozen NHL teams interested in him I would think. 

After Strome, even if you take out the big three of Laf, Kaako and Miller, it leaves a large pool of good young players in Chytil, Kravtsov, Lundkvist, Schneider and Georgiev; just to name the most prominent.

A trade of Eichel, the rights to Ryan Johnson and a depth goalie (Tokarski) for: Strome, Chytil, Schneider, Georgiev and a 1st, would be a fine return in my opinion. While there is risk to be sure in any trade that focuses on multiple pieces; it is also the case that there are no guarantees around prospects like Zegras, Rossi or Krebs.

I really think, at this point, that the Eichel trade will be about asset accumulation. If the Sabres were to make this trade with the Rangers, they would have the following 1st round picks since 2016 in their system:

Dahlin #1, 2018

Power #1, 2021

Cozens #7, 2019

Mittelstadt #8, 2017

Quinn #8, 2020

Rosen #14, 2021

Schneider #19, 2020

Chytil #21, 2017

Thompson #26, 2016

Jokiharju #29, 2017

That's 10 first round picks from the past 6 drafts with three additional 1st round picks coming in 2022 to go along with additional higher-end prospects like Ruotsalainen, Luukkonen, Samuelsson and Peterka. 

That would provide us with a combination of young NHL talent, prospect talent and draft capital at a level that we frankly never had before or after the tank years.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Archie Lee