Shopping Jack Eichel: New York

[dudacek]

Wrapping up this series...

Will they be interested?

One would have to think so, considering this is the team that apparently planted the idea of trading the captain into Kevyn Adams' head. Of course that was a management team that was abruptly fired by a wild card owner. Since then we've had a brief hint that James Dolan had ordered his management team to go out and get Eichel, one credible report that new GM Chris Drury had kicked some tires, and a notable lack of Rangers hype from the Insiders crowd.

Do they have the pieces?

From this distance, the Rangers seem better positioned to make an Eichel deal than any team other than perhaps L.A. They have $22 million in cap space with only two significant contracts this summer and they have one of the deepest lists of prospects and young NHL players in the league. And, unlike L.A., their window is opening now. Despite their kids, their current core — Trouba, Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome and Krieder — is all in their prime, and looking at its back half.

Would this work?

Lafreniere, Chytil, Georgiev and Trouba for Eichel and Ristolainen (50% retained)

One of the most frustrating things about internet Ranger fans is their absolute insistence they can get Eichel without anyone at all that they value. The fact is the Rangers — with Buchnevich, Kakko and Kravtsov already backing up Panarin and Kreider on the depth chart, and Strome likely moving to wing with Eichel arriving — are in a position where they can absorb the loss of Lafreniere if it means adding Eichel.

And in my view, putting Lafreniere on the table pretty much guarantees the Rangers will get Eichel, no matter what other pieces are included. In this case Chytil and Georgiev fill needs and Chytil has some middle-six centre upside.

A retained Risto for Trouba is essentially two similar players, giving the Rangers a massive cap dump to accommodate Eichel now and moving forward. It could be accommodated in different ways, Strome or Buchnevich perhaps, or some retention on Eichel.

Is there a deal to be made with the Rangers?

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by dudacek

[dudacek]

The silence from Ranger-land in the Eichel talks is troubling to me.

I think they are downplaying their interest, lurking and hoping to sway Adams with a high-volume Buchnevich-Chytil-Schneider-15OA-Georgiev offer. And I'm worried that — lacking an elite prospect from other suitors — Adams will bite.

Eichel makes far more sense to New York than their fans would have you believe. If they wait until Kakko and Lafreniere blossom they run the risk of watching Zibby and the Breadman wilt. Eichel makes them a contender right now, and gives them a star. If I was Drury, I'd give up Lafreniere to get Eichel, but only if I had to. And I'm hoping their owner agrees with me.

We really need Minny or Anaheim to step up with a strong enough offer for Adams to accept, which he then gives New York a chance to beat, forcing Drury to play his true hand.

Stay strong Kevyn.

Edited July 17, 2021 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

I think a trade hasn't happened because there's a roster freeze at 3pm and then an expansion draft. 

Thursday and Friday are still the most logical times and as always, Adams doesn't have to trade him. 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

The silence from Ranger-land in the Eichel talks is troubling to me.

I think they are downplaying their interest, lurking and hoping to sway Adams with a high-volume Buchnevich-Chytil-Schneider-15OA-Georgiev offer. And I'm worried that — lacking an elite prospect from other suitors — Adams will bite.

Eichel makes far more sense to New York than their fans would have you believe. If they wait until Kakko and Lafreniere blossom they run the risk of watching Zibby and the Breadman wilt. Eichel makes them a contender right now, and gives them a star. If I was Drury, I'd give up Lafreniere to get Eichel, but only if I had to. And I'm hoping their owner agrees with me.

We really need Minny or Anaheim to step up with a strong enough offer for Adams to accept, which he then gives New York a chance to beat, forcing Drury to play his true hand.

Stay strong Kevyn.

There is a simple ground rule for the Sabres: No Lafreniere-- no deal. From everything that I have read the Rangers are adamant that they will not trade him. And the same line of thinking should apply to Anaheim: No Zegras---no deal. And everything that I have read about the Ducks is they are adamant that Zegras not be included in a deal. My recommendation is to hang up the phone.  

[Thorner]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

The silence from Ranger-land in the Eichel talks is troubling to me.

I think they are downplaying their interest, lurking and hoping to sway Adams with a high-volume Buchnevich-Chytil-Schneider-15OA-Georgiev offer. And I'm worried that — lacking an elite prospect from other suitors — Adams will bite.

Eichel makes far more sense to New York than their fans would have you believe. If they wait until Kakko and Lafreniere blossom they run the risk of watching Zibby and the Breadman wilt. Eichel makes them a contender right now, and gives them a star. If I was Drury, I'd give up Lafreniere to get Eichel, but only if I had to. And I'm hoping their owner agrees with me.

We really need Minny or Anaheim to step up with a strong enough offer for Adams to accept, which he then gives New York a chance to beat, forcing Drury to play his true hand.

Stay strong Kevyn.

Holy hell you hit the nail on the head with the bolded bit. Rangers twitter is a sh*t show right now. We also have Sens twitter turning down Eichel in proposals because they have Shane Pinto or something.

Mystery!!Box ftw. 

Buchnevich and Chytil coming back was something I mentioned on here a while ago, I could see that being what the Rags are sitting on right now. 

 

[Thorner]

This is just to illustrate the majority sentiment 

"even if he gets a clean bill of health I wouldn't contemplate Suzuki in a deal."

I tell you, there's nothing stronger in sports than the bond between a fan and that fan's regard for players who haven't yet been subject to any real expectations yet. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Thorny

[Hoss]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is just to illustrate the majority sentiment 

"even if he gets a clean bill of health I wouldn't contemplate Suzuki in a deal."

I tell you, there's nothing stronger in sports than the bond between a fan that fan's regard for players who haven't yet been subject to any real expectations yet. 

I love how absolutely ridiculous fandom is.

[dudacek]

There is nothing more valuable to a fan base - or blinding to common sense - than a likeable kid who just had a good playoff.

Edited July 17, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorner]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There is nothing more valuable to a fan base - or blinding to common sense - than a likeable kid who just had a good playoff.

I don't even think the last part is a prerequisite. Even Sabres fans have our "untouchables" like Cozens. We've also seen lesser names floated as untouchables, up to and including the likes of Jokiharju shortly after acquiring him. 

To your point Suzuki's playoff will have them extra bullish, but the fact they made it so far when their best centre didn't score a goal until like the last game of the finals is even more reason for why adding Eichel would make sense. Isn't Price still their meal ticket? Whether they want it to be or not, I'd imagine, given his contract. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This is just to illustrate the majority sentiment 

"even if he gets a clean bill of health I wouldn't contemplate Suzuki in a deal."

I tell you, there's nothing stronger in sports than the bond between a fan and that fan's regard for players who haven't yet been subject to any real expectations yet. 

I mean, you are right, but Suzuki is a good young important part of a team that just went to the Cup Finals.

That will create an emotional attachment from the fan base in a hurry.

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

I mean, you are right, but Suzuki is a good young important part of a team that just went to the Cup Finals.

That will create an emotional attachment from the fan base in a hurry.

And?

They aren't arguing from the position of emotional attachment. They are framing their arguments through the context of talent analysis. 

[Digger]

We're talking Montreal in the New York post.  😊

I don't see New York willing to give up Lafreniere in a deal but I would have to think they would consider Kakko who had a poor rookie season.  I'm not convinced the Rangers are willing to give enough to make the trade work for us.

Montreal?  I don't think they have enough to make it work unless they are willing to include Caufield and I doubt they do that.

For both I would rather have a A+ prospect that has a good chance to become a first line center for us (playing for the team this year).

[Thorner]

 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

This is just to illustrate the majority sentiment 

"even if he gets a clean bill of health I wouldn't contemplate Suzuki in a deal."

I tell you, there's nothing stronger in sports than the bond between a fan and that fan's regard for players who haven't yet been subject to any real expectations yet. 

Yup.  And we are as guilty of it as any.

[DHawerchuk10]

12 hours ago, dudacek said:

Wrapping up this series...

Will they be interested?

One would have to think so, considering this is the team that apparently planted the idea of trading the captain into Kevyn Adams' head. Of course that was a management team that was abruptly fired by a wild card owner. Since then we've had a brief hint that James Dolan had ordered his management team to go out and get Eichel, one credible report that new GM Chris Drury had kicked some tires, and a notable lack of Rangers hype from the Insiders crowd.

Do they have the pieces?

From this distance, the Rangers seem better positioned to make an Eichel deal than any team other than perhaps L.A. They have $22 million in cap space with only two significant contracts this summer and they have one of the deepest lists of prospects and young NHL players in the league. And, unlike L.A., their window is opening now. Despite their kids, their current core — Trouba, Panarin, Zibanejad, Strome and Krieder — is all in their prime, and looking at its back half.

Would this work?

Lafreniere, Chytil, Georgiev and Trouba for Eichel and Ristolainen (50% retained)

One of the most frustrating things about internet Ranger fans is their absolute insistence they can get Eichel without anyone at all that they value. The fact is the Rangers — with Buchnevich, Kakko and Kravtsov already backing up Panarin and Kreider on the depth chart, and Strome likely moving to wing with Eichel arriving — are in a position where they can absorb the loss of Lafreniere if it means adding Eichel.

And in my view, putting Lafreniere on the table pretty much guarantees the Rangers will get Eichel, no matter what other pieces are included. In this case Chytil and Georgiev fill needs and Chytil has some middle-six centre upside.

A retained Risto for Trouba is essentially two similar players, giving the Rangers a massive cap dump to accommodate Eichel now and moving forward. It could be accommodated in different ways, Strome or Buchnevich perhaps, or some retention on Eichel.

Is there a deal to be made with the Rangers?

 

Ranger fans are master gaslighters.  They will have you believe the Rangers are doing the Sabres a favor for taking Eichel.

Personally, I’m just not super high on the majority of their guys.  Kakko is a big “meh”, and I can see him having a mostly mediocre career if not brought along with the right line mates.  Lafreniere is really the only guy that moves the needle for me (outside Fox, Panarin).

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

And?

They aren't arguing from the position of emotional attachment. They are framing their arguments through the context of talent analysis. 

I’m saying that for many, the emotional attachment colors the talent analysis.  Not that that’s everyone, but surely some.  If the team had lost first round, who they be saying the same?

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

I’m saying that for many, the emotional attachment colors the talent analysis.  Not that that’s everyone, but surely some.  If the team had lost first round, who they be saying the same?

Well, ya...I'm not saying people can't look at and understand the numbers and even their own eyeballs. Of course there are things going on that are coloring their talent evaluations of the players..I wasn't ever suggesting otherwise. 

My initial argument was about how people think about and process prospects. 

[dudacek]

Right now fandom (certainly Montreal’s) sees Nick Suzuki as another Jon Toews in the making and they don’t want to change their mix. A majority look at Eichel right now and can’t see past a two-goal scorer with a bad neck and a big contract.

Last summer, can you imagine how many Habs fans would have offered Caufield and Kotkaniemi for Eichel and how many Sabres fans would have laughed at them?

Fandom is definitely a what have you done for me lately world. One would hope GMs look at things a little differently.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

New York ?????

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

There is a simple ground rule for the Sabres: No Lafreniere-- no deal. From everything that I have read the Rangers are adamant that they will not trade him. And the same line of thinking should apply to Anaheim: No Zegras---no deal. And everything that I have read about the Ducks is they are adamant that Zegras not be included in a deal. My recommendation is to hang up the phone.  

That is the case. Rangers have stated that Lafreniere would not be part of any Eichel deal. A NY deal would likely be veterans and draft picks. They like their young core, and why wouldn't they? Like LA, they're a team with big potential and a solid group of youngsters. Big markets however so impatience might push them towards an Eichel addition, but again, not at the expense of the youngsters. 

[SDBillsfan]

Eichel is 24! It's not as if they'd be destroying their youth movement by adding some over the hill guy who doesn't fit into their window of opportunity.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

That is the case. Rangers have stated that Lafreniere would not be part of any Eichel deal. A NY deal would likely be veterans and draft picks. They like their young core, and why wouldn't they? Like LA, they're a team with big potential and a solid group of youngsters. Big markets however so impatience might push them towards an Eichel addition, but again, not at the expense of the youngsters. 

With respect to the Rangers their roster is already full of young and upcoming players. On top of that their farm system is deep with a lot of players who are close to being NHL ready. The Rangers are in as good position to trade some of their emerging talent without very much depleting their system. 

The owner of the Rangers recently fired the coach and GM who were responsible for successfully rebuilding the Rangers. Their often mocked owner wants to win now and not later. If Jack were traded to the Rangers they would get a star who was in the prime of his career with many optimum playing years ahead of him. My point is the Rangers are in a good position to trade for Jack without depleting their talent pool. And again I emphasize without Lafreniere included in a Jack trade there should be no deal. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

That is the case. Rangers have stated that Lafreniere would not be part of any Eichel deal. A NY deal would likely be veterans and draft picks. They like their young core, and why wouldn't they? Like LA, they're a team with big potential and a solid group of youngsters. Big markets however so impatience might push them towards an Eichel addition, but again, not at the expense of the youngsters. 

Have Rangers actually stated that Lafreniere would not be part of any Eichel deal?

I could be forgetting something, but I don’t remember that one.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Curt said:

Have Rangers actually stated that Lafreniere would not be part of any Eichel deal?

I could be forgetting something, but I don’t remember that one.

Don't think there's any actual definitive statements, cause that would confirm that there has been actual trade negotiation, but it has been rumoured and talked about by insiders (don't remember which one(s) of the Dreger LeBrun MacKenzie types). 

I mean i don't even think there's any official statements about trying to trade Eichel at all. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Don't think there's any actual definitive statements, cause that would confirm that there has been actual trade negotiation, but it has been rumoured and talked about by insiders (don't remember which one(s) of the Dreger LeBrun MacKenzie types). 

I mean i don't even think there's any official statements about trying to trade Eichel at all. 

I don’t think any insiders have actually said that the Rangers will not include Lafreniere in an Eichel deal.  Again, I could be forgetting it.