Official Don Granato Named New Sabres Head Coach

[Sabres Fan in NS]

17 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I want some of what you're smoking.

Nothing ... it's all haram.

[Doohicksie]

I knew in your case that's true... it's an expression of speech.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 minute ago, Doohickie said:

I knew in your case that's true... it's an expression of speech.

I know that you knew and I know the expression.

😉

[Doohicksie]

7 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I know that you knew and I know the expression.

😉

I know that you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew that you knew the expression.

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, freester said:

No evidence whatsoever that Terry not Botterill was responsible for the horrible Skinner contract. People love to blame the Pegulas when it was the incompetent GMs who caused the Sabres to be in the position where there at. You can blame the. Pegulas for hiring the 3 incompetent GMs and that is fair  

 

Disagree. It's been reported that Botterill was against LT deals and that Pegula was the instigator behind both the Eichel deal and Skinner's. 

2 hours ago, SDS said:

Skinner’s slump started a 1/4 season prior to his contract. It was just overlooked. 

After he got hurt, yes. 

[Thorner]

@freester

https://www.nhltradetalk.com/real-reason-for-sabres-changes-where-pegulas-and-botterill-butted-heads/

See Elliote Friedman's reporting:

“I don’t think Botterill wanted to give Jack Eichel that contract and ownership said “we’re doing it”. And I don’t think Botterill wanted to give Jeff Skinner that deal. I think what Botterill wanted to do was offer big money for a low term. … Jason Botterill, from what I heard, is not a “term guy”. He says too many teams get burned by those mistakes and I think he was overruled. I think what they’re looking at right here is: There’s a finite amount of time here before Eichel says “I had enough.””

Edited July 4, 2021 by Thorny

[Marvin]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

@freester

https://www.nhltradetalk.com/real-reason-for-sabres-changes-where-pegulas-and-botterill-butted-heads/

See Elliote Friedman's reporting:

“I don’t think Botterill wanted to give Jack Eichel that contract and ownership said “we’re doing it”. And I don’t think Botterill wanted to give Jeff Skinner that deal. I think what Botterill wanted to do was offer big money for a low term. … Jason Botterill, from what I heard, is not a “term guy”. He says too many teams get burned by those mistakes and I think he was overruled. I think what they’re looking at right here is: There’s a finite amount of time here before Eichel says “I had enough.””

I would say Terry went 1-for-2.  The Eichel deal, if he wanted to stay here, looks like fricking genius.  The Skinner deal looks like idiocy.

This is why XGMJB getting a free pass from the NHL old boys club puzzles me.  He was flat out wrong in diagnosing O'Reilly as part of the problem here.  (IMHO, you blame XGMJB for wanting to move O'Reilly and TP for wanting it done before the bonus was paid.)  IMHO, he was right about Evander Kane not being right for the youth.  He was the yahoo who wanted Kreuger first.  He was wrong on the Eichel contract.  He was right about the Skinner contract.  He could not get more than two and change useful lines for his coaches.  His drafts looks solid so far.

That is a very mixed bag.  How he gets absolved of all of the gaffes just baffles me.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I really believe that both will be Sabres long-term.

Jack has a contract and I believe Samson will be signed to a cap friendly 7, or 8, year deal.

They want out.  Eichel may be stuck, he is on contract.  Sam will be gone soon. He has one year left and he has to desire to stay.  

[nfreeman]

7 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I would say Terry went 1-for-2.  The Eichel deal, if he wanted to stay here, looks like fricking genius.  The Skinner deal looks like idiocy.

This is why XGMJB getting a free pass from the NHL old boys club puzzles me.  He was flat out wrong in diagnosing O'Reilly as part of the problem here.  (IMHO, you blame XGMJB for wanting to move O'Reilly and TP for wanting it done before the bonus was paid.)  IMHO, he was right about Evander Kane not being right for the youth.  He was the yahoo who wanted Kreuger first.  He was wrong on the Eichel contract.  He was right about the Skinner contract.  He could not get more than two and change useful lines for his coaches.  His drafts looks solid so far.

That is a very mixed bag.  How he gets absolved of all of the gaffes just baffles me.

And goaltending!!

[Marvin]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

And goaltending!!

Ack!  Yeah, how could I have forgotten that?

[Thorner]

35 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I would say Terry went 1-for-2.  The Eichel deal, if he wanted to stay here, looks like fricking genius.  The Skinner deal looks like idiocy.

This is why XGMJB getting a free pass from the NHL old boys club puzzles me.  He was flat out wrong in diagnosing O'Reilly as part of the problem here.  (IMHO, you blame XGMJB for wanting to move O'Reilly and TP for wanting it done before the bonus was paid.)  IMHO, he was right about Evander Kane not being right for the youth.  He was the yahoo who wanted Kreuger first.  He was wrong on the Eichel contract.  He was right about the Skinner contract.  He could not get more than two and change useful lines for his coaches.  His drafts looks solid so far.

That is a very mixed bag.  How he gets absolved of all of the gaffes just baffles me.

So in the end, we look at the record. And the record was bad. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

40 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

They want out.  Eichel may be stuck, he is on contract.  Sam will be gone soon. He has one year left and he has to desire to stay.  

Have either of them actually said that they want out?  I have not seen a report, or heard a report of that.

Samson is RFA now.  His contract expired on July 1st, no?

[Pimlach]

26 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Have either of them actually said that they want out?  I have not seen a report, or heard a report of that.

Samson is RFA now.  His contract expired on July 1st, no?

To my knowledge there are no direct quotes from Jack saying it, but this is the 2nd off season in a row that he and KA are in “discussions”, I highly doubt they are very positive given KA’s “we want people that want to be here” mantra.  Eichel not listening to Sabres/Bills or his own original doctors is a ploy to force a trade.  
 

Sam is an RFA in 2021.  If we doesn’t sign an offer sheet somewhere, or extend with us, then he will be gone next season.  Sam did not say he wanted out but he sure didn’t say he wanted to stay.  He did say he cannot do another rebuild, which is where we seem to be.   He said something like they will did with it later, another time.  
 

Everyone knows they both want out.  
 

 

[pi2000]

27 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Have either of them actually said that they want out?  I have not seen a report, or heard a report of that.

Samson is RFA now.  His contract expired on July 1st, no?

The only hint from Eichel was in his season ending presser when he said his main goal this offseason was to get healthy and be ready to play "wherever that may be".

When asked if he'll ask for a trade Samson said "that stuff is all going to get figured out when the time comes".

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Mostly, if not all, without Jack.  That's the big difference.

Shouldn't a guy making his money bring offense to the team? Your basically saying Skinner needs everything teed up for him.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Shouldn't a guy making his money bring offense to the team? Your basically saying Skinner needs everything teed up for him.

Skinner is a goal scorer that needs to be fed the puck.  Alwasys has been and always will be.  He was brought in here to score goals off a good feed from a good setup man.  He will not create goals on his own and rarely sets them up for someone else.  He's a finisher.

[nfreeman]

40 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I agree with all of this, but who's going to be the center feeding Skinner the puck?

 

30 minutes ago, freester said:

He won’t be successful without a quality Center. Jack barely played and was not healthy, Staal is a 4th line Center that we put on the 2nd line. I don’t feel that we currently have a first or second line quality center if we move Reinhart and Jack. 

I don't disagree that Skinner needs a real NHL center, but at the same time I thought his goal-scoring decline was not due to lack of chances generated by his center as much as it was a failure by him to make the elite in-tight moves to bury his chances that he was able to convert a couple of seasons ago.  I think that is mostly about confidence and feeling it and maybe DG can help him get it back.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Shouldn't a guy making his money bring offense to the team? Your basically saying Skinner needs everything teed up for him.

Skinner is not a conventional talent.  To deploy him as such is to waste that talent.  Krueger had no idea what to do with Skinner.  Krueger was not about to change his system to better utilize any player.

Granato didn't try hard to revitalize Skinner either.  It might have been because he was too focused on given younger players better minutes to develop their offense.  I hope in the coming season he tries to maximize Skinner's production.  Jack is so crazy good that he could adjust to Skinner's style.  If we don't have Jack I'm not sure anyone else can get the best out of him.  Maybe if they work hard on it, Mitts and Skinner could develop some chemistry. 

[Doohicksie]

I kind of have a feeling that once the roster is set, Granado will turn the "we want players who want to be here" mantra around, and convince each and every one one of the players that they are here because the Sabres want them on the team.  To feel wanted will improve morale and confidence.  The one thing that seems common among recent Sabres coaches is a certain level of aloofness.  Except for Nolan, every coach since Lindy has been kind of a reserved academic type of personality, and they seemed to put on airs that they knew more than everyone else.  Perhaps is because they didn't feel like they had the players to work with.  Rolston, Bylsma, Housley and Krueger all seemed frustrated because the players (aside from Jack and Sam once they got here) weren't the right players.

Granato took the players he had and made something out of them.  And he convinced the young guys that they could live up to the vision of themselves that Granato provided them.  Mitts really is a top six center.  Tage really is a finisher with a great shot and a physical side.  Asplund really is a high quality offensive-minded forechecker.  Dahlin really is that generational talent the Sabres drafted.

Where all the other recent coaches had a system they insisted the team play, Granato identifies a role for each player, a role where they can succeed.  And he worked with them to develop into those roles.  He sees potential and hones it into a finished product.  Other coaches just saw the deficiencies.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Doohickie

[kas23]

5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Sam is an RFA in 2021.  If we doesn’t sign an offer sheet somewhere, or extend with us, then he will be gone next season.  
 

 

Hypothetical question. If a team offer sheets Sam and he signs it, but then we match it, is he obligated to sign with us for that money and term? If he is, and he doesn’t wish to stay (under any circumstance), he probably won’t sign any offer sheets. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

Hypothetical question. If a team offer sheets Sam and he signs it, but then we match it, is he obligated to sign with us for that money and term? If he is, and he doesn’t wish to stay (under any circumstance), he probably won’t sign any offer sheets. 

Everybody has a price. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

Hypothetical question. If a team offer sheets Sam and he signs it, but then we match it, is he obligated to sign with us for that money and term? If he is, and he doesn’t wish to stay (under any circumstance), he probably won’t sign any offer sheets. 

Any offer sheet an rfa signs, his team can match and keep him. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Any offer sheet an rfa signs, his team can match and keep him. 

Which is what @kas23 is getting at ... if the Sabres match Samson, or whatever player, has no choice in the matter and has to stay a Sabre for whatever $ and term was in the offer sheet.

And I agree with @kas23 that if Samson has no desire to stay then it is very unlikely that he will sign any offer sheet.  He may gamble, if it is an outragous offer and he really likes the team making the offer, that the Sabres would not match.

Edited July 5, 2021 by New Scotland (NS)

[PromoTheRobot]

41 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Which is what @kas23 is getting at ... if the Sabres match Samson, or whatever player, has no choice in the matter and has to stay a Sabre for whatever $ and term was in the offer sheet.

And I agree with @kas23 that if Samson has no desire to stay then it is very unlikely that he will sign any offer sheet.  He may gamble, if it is an outragous offer and he really likes the team making the offer, that the Sabres would not match.

If the Sabres decline is there compensation? Sam was 1st round pick. Don't we get a couple #1s back? I remember the Vanek offer sheet from EDM could have netted the Sabres 4 #1s. In hindsight that would have been the play. But Buffalo had just let Briere and Drury walk. Letting Vanek leave would have caused the fanbase to riot.

 

[Eleven]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

If the Sabres decline is there compensation? Sam was 1st round pick. Don't we get a couple #1s back? I remember the Vanek offer sheet from EDM could have netted the Sabres 4 #1s. In hindsight that would have been the play. But Buffalo had just let Briere and Drury walk. Letting Vanek leave would have caused the fanbase to riot.

 

It's based upon the amount of the offer.