Chicago Blackhawks Sexual Assault Allegations

[bob_sauve28]

29 minutes ago, etiennep99 said:

Then why are we even discussing what is at least three degrees of separation hearsay?   Players told a coach who told TSN which wrote an article.

We can all agree that sexual assault is wrong.  But we're not even sure of the details.  We shouldn't be assuming the guy is guilty until a jury says so.

And I know that predators target the weak, but these were not little children.  We need to stop infantilizing adults.   The same even holds true for teens.  In

Jewish tradition, at 13 a person should know right from wrong.  If you're 23 and value your AHL career more than reporting an assault to the police, then

something is wrong.

Quoting the Bible is nothing that I will ever be ashamed of.  Quite the opposite.   You have your ways, but they are not God's ways.

Why isn’t America in the Bible? 

[etiennep99]

America is in the Bible.  Just not in name per se.  So, like, I'm not going to get sucked into that kind of debate. OK.  I've quoted a passage relevant to the situation.   Nothing else belongs in this thread.   The moderators don't like it.  Most of you have made it clear that you hate Christianity. What else is there to say?

Edited June 28, 2021 by etiennep99

[WildCard]

6 minutes ago, etiennep99 said:

Let me get this straight.  You all are complaining about a guy who is assaulting hockey players.  You defend the guys for not coming forward because they were afraid of the organization.  I tell you that I've been a victim of assault, and what do y'all do?  You attack me.  Acting just like you said that the Big Organization would do to the hockey players.   So what are y'all doing here? Rubbernecking?  You don't want solutions. And you're currently acting exactly like you say is doing bad.  Ever seen a mirror before?

You seriously don't see the difference between a young kid with his career on the line battling a billion dollar corporation vs yourself telling an anonymous internet forum?

Edited June 28, 2021 by WildCard

[etiennep99]

Just now, WildCard said:

You seriously don't see the difference between a young kid with his career on the line battling a billion dollar corporation vs yourself telling an anonymous internet forum?

You seriously don't see the difference between a young kid with his career on the line battling a billion dollar corporation vs yourself telling an anonymous internet forum?

You're still attacking me and being mean to me.   If it quacks like a duck...if the shoe fits...you know.  Be the change that you want to see.  Don't attack people if you think that attacking people is wrong, regardless the situation.    So, like what is the line for you?   Internet forums, be nasty as hell, but say, at the office, only use passive aggression?   Wait until you're the boss to exact retribution?   What about your neighbor?  Your friends? Your spouse?  When is it OK to be a jerk to other people.  Really.  Just answer me that?

[WildCard]

In other news...

If this really his the fan a-la Carolina Panthers then I wonder if so many people get fired and the Hawks are out of the Eichel sweepstakes

[Marvin]

36 minutes ago, etiennep99 said:

Most of you have made it clear that you hate Christianity.

Where would you get that idea?  Honestly, I find that broad generalisation very hurtful.  Just because I am not Christian does not mean I am anti-Christian.

[ubkev]

See what ya do here is, take something that isn't about you, make it about you then cry victim.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, etiennep99 said:

Then why are we even discussing what is at least three degrees of separation hearsay?   Players told a coach who told TSN which wrote an article.

We can all agree that sexual assault is wrong.  But we're not even sure of the details.  We shouldn't be assuming the guy is guilty until a jury says so.

And I know that predators target the weak, but these were not little children.  We need to stop infantilizing adults.   The same even holds true for teens.  In

Jewish tradition, at 13 a person should know right from wrong.  If you're 23 and value your AHL career more than reporting an assault to the police, then

something is wrong.

Quoting the Bible is nothing that I will ever be ashamed of.  Quite the opposite.   You have your ways, but they are not God's ways.

Ppl don't become victims because they are weak. You talk about not knowing details yet immediately blamed the alleged victims calling them weak and doubting them because they didn't immediately seek police intervention. An adult, especially a young adult can be taken advantage of and manipulated and you suggesting that's "infantile" is disgusting. You're not weak or infantile if your a man who's been sexual assaulted. 

55 minutes ago, etiennep99 said:

Let me get this straight.  You all are complaining about a guy who is assaulting hockey players.  You defend the guys for not coming forward because they were afraid of the organization.  I tell you that I've been a victim of assault, and what do y'all do?  You attack me.  Acting just like you said that the Big Organization would do to the hockey players.   So what are y'all doing here? Rubbernecking?  You don't want solutions. And you're currently acting exactly like you say is doing bad.  Ever seen a mirror before?

No one is attacking you for saying you were assaulted. Although what you mean by "assaulted" just like this case is unclear. The push back comes from the things I've conjectured above. 

I'm sorry you were assaulted, I find assault to be an awful thing especially if sexual in nature. 

52 minutes ago, etiennep99 said:

America is in the Bible.  Just not in name per se.  So, like, I'm not going to get sucked into that kind of debate. OK.  I've quoted a passage relevant to the situation.   Nothing else belongs in this thread.   The moderators don't like it.  Most of you have made it clear that you hate Christianity. What else is there to say?

Not following Christianity and hating it are 2 different things. Also I don't hate Christianity because I don't accept the Bible at face value or as my main guidance or moral compass. Just like I don't hate Islam because I don't use the Quran as guidance. 

I'm indifferent to religions and ppl can do as they please. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

Etienne, saddened that you were assaulted.  Hope you had/ have a good support network.

Not entirely certain that the points you are attempting to make about the 2 former Blackhawks are clear.  From at least 1 of the articles about this, 1 of the players did come forward to a coach, but not to the police.  While it does make sense to go to the police instead, here in the US people are often encouraged to bring these matters to their university (if students & the alleged assault happens on campus or in situation related to campus events) or their employer (if it was a coworker or superior that allegedly committed the assault) first rather than going directly to the police.  

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, ubkev said:

It never had a chance.

😂

The Thread Slayer has returned.

[etiennep99]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Ppl don't become victims because they are weak. You talk about not knowing details yet immediately blamed the alleged victims calling them weak and doubting them because they didn't immediately seek police intervention. An adult, especially a young adult can be taken advantage of and manipulated and you suggesting that's "infantile" is disgusting. You're not weak or infantile if your a man who's been sexual assaulted. 

No one is attacking you for saying you were assaulted. Although what you mean by "assaulted" just like this case is unclear. The push back comes from the things I've conjectured above. 

I'm sorry you were assaulted, I find assault to be an awful thing especially if sexual in nature. 

Not following Christianity and hating it are 2 different things. Also I don't hate Christianity because I don't accept the Bible at face value or as my main guidance or moral compass. Just like I don't hate Islam because I don't use the Quran as guidance. 

I'm indifferent to religions and ppl can do as they please. 

Thank you for showing some sympathy.   I'm not attacking the players and calling them children.  I'm saying that society puts low expectations on them encouraging them to remain childlike.   I am saying that it's normal to be upset about being assaulted and to want some kind of righting of the wrong.  I'm not saying that not going to the police makes them sissies.  I'm saying that you need to make up your mind soon after the fact to decide the right path.   Each player his a right to keep silent. I cannot force him to talk.  But if the perp goes on to commit more crimes, the first victim had a chance to stop it.   Come on, y'all have seen cop shows where the mob tries to silence witnesses and victims.  If people don't come forward, some day we could end up like Central America where many countries are so overwhelmed by crime and gansterism that the government ceases to function.    Why is sexual assault such a taboo subject that you are afraid to report it, but you wouldn't hesitate to report someone stealing your newspapers?    It looks like the Blackhawks dropped the ball. It looks like these guys' support networks were not functional.   Sh%t happens.  It's fact of life.  Accept what you cannot change and move on.

I was victim of another assault, but it was a he said, he said.  I had no way of proving my case.  So, I gave up.   I have faith that God would make things right.  That's what I'm saying, don't worry about losing your AHL/NHL career. Do the right thing, and the Lord above will reward you.  Vengeance belongs to the Lord.  Don't take matters into your own hands, take them to God's Court (and maybe the local justice system too).   As one preacher said, "the Bible is full of laws against killing, but there are no laws against being killed."   Jesus and many prophets and apostles ended up being killed.  I have faith that whatever happens to me, God has my back in the end, even if that means an express ride to heaven.   But it would be nice if we could all (myself included) be more civil.

[etiennep99]

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Etienne, saddened that you were assaulted.  Hope you had/ have a good support network.

Not entirely certain that the points you are attempting to make about the 2 former Blackhawks are clear.  From at least 1 of the articles about this, 1 of the players did come forward to a coach, but not to the police.  While it does make sense to go to the police instead, here in the US people are often encouraged to bring these matters to their university (if students & the alleged assault happens on campus or in situation related to campus events) or their employer (if it was a coworker or superior that allegedly committed the assault) first rather than going directly to the police.  

Thank you for your kind words.   I worry that people are encouraged to go to their superiors exactly because the organization wants to avoid being embroiled in a police matter.   Like when a someone is poisoned by an impure drug or dies from something like Vioxx, the person often ends up settling and signing an hush agreement, and then no one else finds out about the problems.   There has got to be a better way.

[Zamboni]

There is a difference between disagreeing with passion and conviction. And internet bully tough guy rhetoric. Which one are you displaying? 

 

I hope the full truth comes out and let the chips fall where they may. 

[etiennep99]

1 hour ago, ubkev said:

See what ya do here is, take something that isn't about you, make it about you then cry victim.

What I do here is input my 2 cents, and then see people rolling their eyes, telling me to get lost, dissing my faith, dissing my politics, giving beers and thumbs up to the people opposing me.  They say that they don't hate Christianity but then thumbs down anything that I post from the Bible.  But anyhow, so far, I haven't see too much dissing on my pure hockey posts; I've never claimed to be a hockey guru.  As I've said elsewhere, that's why I came here, to get food for thought.  This isn't the only place I look for hockey info.

We all know that the hockey world has some major problems. Just look at how many people are complaining about the officiating and director of player safety this year.  Talking about the assaults is a valid hockey issue.  But my 2 cents were why weren't they reported earlier.

 I don't make myself a victim.  Some of the members of this board are.  Today, what I'm doing is showing that I can empathize with these Blackhawks players to some degree. That puts me in their shoes, you know, don't criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes.  And in my case, since I thought that I had enough evidence to prove my case, I went straight to the police; and I mean immediately after the event took place.  

 

That's more than enough for one day.  Go ahead and say what you will.  I'll try to restrain myself from posting again on this thread.

[Eleven]

5 hours ago, etiennep99 said:

Then why are we even discussing what is at least three degrees of separation hearsay?   Players told a coach who told TSN which wrote an article.

 

Dude.  The players told some higher-up, and that higher-up failed to take action.  Again, this was about a decade ago.  That's why it is a story.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Eleven

[LGR4GM]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:33 PM, etiennep99 said:

Thank you for showing some sympathy.   I'm not attacking the players and calling them children.  I'm saying that society puts low expectations on them encouraging them to remain childlike.   I am saying that it's normal to be upset about being assaulted and to want some kind of righting of the wrong.  I'm not saying that not going to the police makes them sissies.  I'm saying that you need to make up your mind soon after the fact to decide the right path.   Each player his a right to keep silent. I cannot force him to talk.  But if the perp goes on to commit more crimes, the first victim had a chance to stop it.   Come on, y'all have seen cop shows where the mob tries to silence witnesses and victims.  If people don't come forward, some day we could end up like Central America where many countries are so overwhelmed by crime and gansterism that the government ceases to function.    Why is sexual assault such a taboo subject that you are afraid to report it, but you wouldn't hesitate to report someone stealing your newspapers?    It looks like the Blackhawks dropped the ball. It looks like these guys' support networks were not functional.   Sh%t happens.  It's fact of life.  Accept what you cannot change and move on.

Thank you for clarifying your responses. I understand better what you are saying even if I still disagree. 

 

It's crazy that the cover up may go all the way to the GM.

[ubkev]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's crazy that the cover up may go all the way to the GM.

You think it only goes to the GM?

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, ubkev said:

You think it only goes to the GM?

You think it goes to the NHL or you talking ownership?

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, ubkev said:

You think it only goes to the GM?

 It goes all the way up to the President!

/homer

[ubkev]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You think it goes to the NHL or you talking ownership?

Ownership for sure.

[ubkev]

5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 It goes all the way up to the President!

/homer

The people who cut the checks must be informed of when they might have more checks to cut.

[Drag0nDan]

20 hours ago, Eleven said:

We've seen it in the NBA.

It is very strange indeed; normally the victims are on the other side of the power imbalance.

Kinda did the same with Jerry Richardson and the carolina panthers.

[That Aud Smell]

Checking in on this thread had me like

[Stoner]

38 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Checking in on this thread had me like

All these threads degenerate for one reason... there's pushback against assumptions and that above all can't be tolerated. Then comes moral outrage and "shut 'er down."

No one has any idea whether something happened and where it lies on the assault spectrum if it did.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

All these threads degenerate for one reason... there's pushback against assumptions and that above all can't be tolerated. Then comes moral outrage and "shut 'er down."

No one has any idea whether something happened and where it lies on the assault spectrum if it did.

This thread degenerated because one poster suggested an adult hockey player couldn't have been sexual assaulted because they could have hit the person and also hinted at the person being gay as possible reasons. But yea, go with your pushback against assumptions theory because that's not a crock of $#!t. Wasn't like someone came in and said "hey guys, maybe the team didn't know anything" and everyone told that person they suck and to go away. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by LGR4GM