Report Sabres preparing for An Additional Top Ten Pick

[Weave]

11 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

That’s the thing, a competent front office easily pulls off Step 2 even with the gutting that occurred with the Tank. 
It still would have taken the better part of Three Seasons, but towards the end of Jack and Sam’s ELCs the team could have been competitive. 
 

The Blueprint sent out by the Sabres bragged about the all the picks they had in the First And Second Rounds. Those were supposed to be the building blocks the team was built on. We all know what happened with most of those picks. 

Spending around one million dollars on an analytics department that would have helped to find quality players to fill out the bottom six roles. It would help with drafting, it would help the GM not to make stupid trades and decisions. 
 

 

NFW  The gutting of that team was unprecedented.  It was a rebuild to an extent never before done.  Lesser guttings (Pittsburgh for Mario for example) took the better part of a decade to show fruit. The idea that we could do what has never been done before in 3 years is nuts.

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

That’s the thing, a competent front office easily pulls off Step 2 even with the gutting that occurred with the Tank. 
It still would have taken the better part of Three Seasons, but towards the end of Jack and Sam’s ELCs the team could have been competitive. 
 

The Blueprint sent out by the Sabres bragged about the all the picks they had in the First And Second Rounds. Those were supposed to be the building blocks the team was built on. We all know what happened with most of those picks. 

Spending around one million dollars on an analytics department that would have helped to find quality players to fill out the bottom six roles. It would help with drafting, it would help the GM not to make stupid trades and decisions. 

I have been mulling over this for much of the day when I was not working.  Does it seem to you that XGMTM and XGMJB had way too much faith in his drafting ability and player evaluation skills over anything analytics would tell them?  Because they sure acted as if all their draft picks would hit, all their FA signing would work, and all their trades were good.

[Brawndo]

5 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I have been mulling over this for much of the day when I was not working.  Does it seem to you that XGMTM and XGMJB had way too much faith in his drafting ability and player evaluation skills over anything analytics would tell them?  Because they sure acted as if all their draft picks would hit, all their FA signing would work, and all their trades were good.

Pretty much.  Even using a basic NHL Scoring Equivalency in 2014, would have told you that the WHL Draft Eligible Forward who was Third Scoring that year behind Reinhart and Draistal would have been worth drafting.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Pretty much.  Even using a basic NHL Scoring Equivalency in 2014, would have told you that the WHL Draft Eligible Forward who was Third Scoring that year behind Reinhart and Draistal would have been worth drafting.

That's how you draft Seth Jarvis too

[Brawndo]

55 minutes ago, Weave said:

NFW  The gutting of that team was unprecedented.  It was a rebuild to an extent never before done.  Lesser guttings (Pittsburgh for Mario for example) took the better part of a decade to show fruit. The idea that we could do what has never been done before in 3 years is nuts.

They had 5 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds in 2014. Zero play for the team. Hit on 2 of those.

They had 4 picks in the First 31 in the 2015, they have Eichel now. I would still have done the ROR Trade, that’s one of the best moves in the past decade.  The 2015 Draft was also one of the deepest drafts since 2003. Those other two picks could have easily produced 2 NHLers, particularly if you look at who was taken with or after those picks. For argument sake let’s say it was only one.

Perhaps giving 21 to Colorado instead of 31 allows you to keep Compher and Joel Armia is still here because the Kane/Bogo Deal doesn’t happen.
 

Do not trade McNabb and two second round picks for Hudson Fasching.  That’s an extra second in 2014 and 2015. 

That’s six players right there in addition to ROR, Eichel and Reinhart.  That’s Eight you have drafted. One acquired in trade. 

 A Saavy GM finds teams with dumb GMs and makes trades with them, not the colossal blunders the Sabres GMs make. 

The Analytics Department finds value UFAs to sign.

In three years you have a competitive team,Stanley Cup Contender absolutely not, but at least a team that flirts with the playoffs in 2017. 

It doesn’t take a seven years much less a decade. 
 

[SwampD]

I find the (IMO) mental gymnastics needed to believe that the tank worked interesting.

I also think everyone is arguing the wrong thing.

If a "successful" Tank is only successful if there is then a successful rebuild afterward, then whyTF tank? Just F'n rebuild!!

It's even more confusing when I see the continued defense of the tank juxtaposed with the adoration of "how Carolina is doing it."

Whether it was a success or not (I think not) it was not our only option and we didn't need to do it ,as some have said.

[PerreaultForever]

This Vancouver article that was posted on the title page might be a starting point but as much as I don't like Reinhart, he's worth more than just the #9 overall pick in a weak draft.

https://theprovince.com/sports/canucks-why-theres-buzz-to-deal-ninth-overall-pick-for-sam-reinhart

 

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

This Vancouver article that was posted on the title page might be a starting point but as much as I don't like Reinhart, he's worth more than just the #9 overall pick in a weak draft.

https://theprovince.com/sports/canucks-why-theres-buzz-to-deal-ninth-overall-pick-for-sam-reinhart

 

Wait ... there are people who don’t like Samson Reinhart? How?

Also agreed on pick number 9 not being enough. If the Eichel deal lands a top ten pick I also have very little interest in even getting a pick in a Reinhart deal because I’d like the pieces in the second big deal we make to be more “real”/now pieces. I want Horvat or Boeser in a Vancouver deal. That likely means  it becomes a bigger deal that involves another piece from each side since just shuffling those bodies wouldn’t make sense value wise for either side.

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

This Vancouver article that was posted on the title page might be a starting point but as much as I don't like Reinhart, he's worth more than just the #9 overall pick in a weak draft.

https://theprovince.com/sports/canucks-why-theres-buzz-to-deal-ninth-overall-pick-for-sam-reinhart

 

Nothing in there but speculation.

But @nfreemanneeds to give this reporter a call.

"He’s a speedy playmaker..."

 

[SDS]

12 hours ago, SwampD said:

If a "successful" Tank is only successful if there is then a successful rebuild afterward, then whyTF tank? Just F'n rebuild!!

Really? Because your chances of getting an asymptotically better centerpiece is better at number one or number two than at number 13 or 14…

weak sauce. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, SDS said:

Really? Because your chances of getting an asymptotically better centerpiece is better at number one or number two than at number 13 or 14…

weak sauce. 

I keep trying to remind ppl of this. I don't understand how this team would be better off with the same owners but drafting 12th a couple times instead of 2nd or 1st. The point of the tank was to get an elite talent you could build around because they are hard to get outside the top of the draft. 

[SwampD]

19 minutes ago, SDS said:

Really? Because your chances of getting an asymptotically better centerpiece is better at number one or number two than at number 13 or 14…

weak sauce. 

 

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I keep trying to remind ppl of this. I don't understand how this team would be better off with the same owners but drafting 12th a couple times instead of 2nd or 1st. The point of the tank was to get an elite talent you could build around because they are hard to get outside the top of the draft. 

um, I’m trying to understand how this team could be worse off having picked 13 or 14...

Edited June 17, 2021 by SwampD

[SDS]

5 minutes ago, SwampD said:

 

um, I’m trying to understand how could this team could worse off having picked 13 or 14...

Because you are using one specific outcome of a known past versus an unknown outcome in the future? 🤦🏻

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

Because you are using one specific outcome of a known past versus an unknown outcome in the future? 🤦🏻

You mean, there is something worse than last place?!

[SDS]

Just now, SwampD said:

You mean, there is something worse than last place?!

Just like you don’t know the outcome would’ve been last place, no one knows if we would’ve actually been 13th or 14th with a rebuild. Given the state of our team, it’s just as easy to think we would be in last anyway. Unless you’re a grand plan to rebuild around Thomas Vanek, Jason Pominville, and Ryan Miller was a foolproof strategy.

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, SDS said:

Just like you don’t know the outcome would’ve been last place, no one knows if we would’ve actually been 13th or 14th with a rebuild. Given the state of our team, it’s just as easy to think we would be in last anyway. Unless you’re a grand plan to rebuild around Thomas Vanek, Jason Pominville, and Ryan Miller was a foolproof strategy.

All true.

But we would not have intentionally lost for 2+ years.

 

Still trying to figure out why the right path to getting better now is to draft well and build a solid prospect pool, but it wasn’t back then.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I keep trying to remind ppl of this. I don't understand how this team would be better off with the same owners but drafting 12th a couple times instead of 2nd or 1st. The point of the tank was to get an elite talent you could build around because they are hard to get outside the top of the draft. 

[Rasmus_]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

This Vancouver article that was posted on the title page might be a starting point but as much as I don't like Reinhart, he's worth more than just the #9 overall pick in a weak draft.

https://theprovince.com/sports/canucks-why-theres-buzz-to-deal-ninth-overall-pick-for-sam-reinhart

 

#9 and Woo or Rathbone.  I would prefer to target Nils Hoglander, but that's probably a non-starter.   Sam Reinhart, is my current favorite on the roster, but as with Ristolainen and Eichel, I understand the sentiment of moving in a different direction.  He gets to out west, and Benning, has usually made smarter trades than signings, but this could maybe be one where we get a touch more?  Not in love with a lot of their other prospects.  Karlsson, had a great year in the Allsvenskan, but that's a step down from the SHL. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by TheCerebral1

[PerreaultForever]

How about their first this year and their first for 2023? 

In all these trades/scenarios I'd be all for adding 2023 first rounders (obviously not lottery protected).