Shopping Jack Eichel: Seattle

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The value of the cap space is infinitely smaller than Jack’s Trade Return in terms of value here though. I do not want to sacrifice a young roster player or prospect for cap space in this situation. 
 

The Sabres already have 32.6 Million in space.

Trading Jack, Sam and Risto opens another 21 Million, before any returns. 

Add Skinner to that and You have close to 62.6 Million in Cap Space. 
 

I’m not worried about cap space if they want to go big game hunting. 

Yet if lose all those players what big name is going to want to sign here? 

[Brawndo]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Yet if lose all those players what big name is going to want to sign here? 

No one, but that wasn’t the point of the post. I do not want to include Skinner in an Eichel Trade thereby, reducing the return.

If someone did want to sign with Buffalo, there would be enough space to do so with Skinner still being a Sabre. 

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

No one, but that wasn’t the point of the post. I do not want to include Skinner in an Eichel Trade thereby, reducing the return.

If someone did want to sign with Buffalo, there would be enough space to do so with Skinner still being a Sabre. 

I agree, I don't mind losing Risto at this point but Eichel and Reinhart to me are keepers unless someone ends up giving us a top 6 player and more in return. 

[Doohicksie]

2 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

I agree, I don't mind losing Risto at this point but Eichel and Reinhart to me are keepers unless someone ends up giving us a top 6 player and more in return. 

Eichel is under contract and therefore if the Sabres want him, a keeper.  The whole herniated disc thing (and how well it's healing or not) may color whether they want to keep him.

Reino is only a keeper if they can sign him to a multi-year deal.  If he doesn't want to be here it's in his hands.  He can walk after next season.  If that's the case, he will probably never have more value than he does right now.  If he doesn't sign long term they pretty much have to move him.

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Eichel is under contract and therefore if the Sabres want him, a keeper.  The whole herniated disc thing (and how well it's healing or not) may color whether they want to keep him.

Reino is only a keeper if they can sign him to a multi-year deal.  If he doesn't want to be here it's in his hands.  He can walk after next season.  If that's the case, he will probably never have more value than he does right now.  If he doesn't sign long term they pretty much have to move him.

I can agree with that. Yet I don't want picks and prospects as to me, we need to get back NHL talent back. 

[OhMyDahlin]

2 hours ago, Zamboni said:

And if Hall scored 30 goals this past season… He would not be among your list of “negative things“ KA has done.

so don’t you think that maybe… Just maybe you’re blaming KA for Halls lack of production? And does it need to be reminded yet again… That Hall was the biggest… Yes the biggest UFA on the market when KA landed him. and sure you can be pessimistic and say well Hall only came the Buffalo because of Kruger. That very well may be true… Nevertheless KA is the GM… He is the one that targeted and landed him. He gets credit for that. Hall gets credit for being practically useless all season long. There was a big gaping hole at 2C. And even though I hate Staal with a passion, it was a reasonable, logical acquisition to get Staal to fill that hole. Could he have done better? Possibly. He also could’ve done a hell of a lot worse. The other points you made… I completely agree with. Especially the goaltending. KA dropped the ball to improve there.

Taylor Hall came to Buffalo for three reasons...Ralph Krueger, Jack Eichel and $8M.

Kevyn Adams had nothing to do with it, it would've happened no matter who the GM was.

[Doohicksie]

If both want out, my feeling is get what you can for them and move on.  I'd like to keep both if I could though.  I think you take the team at the end of the season with Granato or better coaching, and a healthy stud 1C, and some goaltending help, and I think we're looking at a pretty good team.

If we trade Eichel and/or Reino, we trade players in their prime for what will likely be players just hitting their stride in the NHL (think Mitts/Cozens/Tage- not really prospects anymore but not in their prime just yet) and we're probably needing to age them another year or two before the team is solid.  But if we keep both Jack and Sam, I think we might be pretty good right now.

[Brawndo]

Krueger’s Influence over Front Office Decisions last offseason cannot be understated.

Eakin, Hall, Chris Taylor not being re-upped was His Handy Work 

[Zamboni]

5 minutes ago, OhMyDahlin said:

Taylor Hall came to Buffalo for three reasons...Ralph Krueger, Jack Eichel and $8M.

Kevyn Adams had nothing to do with it, it would've happened no matter who the GM was.

That is, IF the GM even wanted to pursue Hall. And Hall would not have been a Buffalo Sabre, unless KA agreed and pursued it. If Krueger wanted Hall, but for some reason KA disagreed… He wouldn’t have been here. Krueger may have had influence… But he didn’t have the ultimate say over KA.  I can’t believe he had that much power. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Zamboni

[Doohicksie]

14 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

But he didn’t have the ultimate say over KA.  I can’t believe he had that much power. 

During last offseason?  I think that yeah, he might have had that much power.  It was the massive losing streak that sealed his fate.  Up until then I think he was still well regarded by management/ownership.  And Hall coming because of Krueger's influence fit the optimistic narrative of last offseason.

[Zamboni]

4 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

During last offseason?  I think that yeah, he might have had that much power.  It was the massive losing streak that sealed his fate.  Up until then I think he was still well regarded by management/ownership.  And Hall coming because of Krueger's influence fit the optimistic narrative of last offseason.

I am not denying he had power I guess I’m just saying and maybe I’m saying it poorly more than once… I don’t think he had ultimate veto power over what KA wanted. 
if for some reason KA did not want Hall under no circumstances. I don’t think Kruger would’ve had more say over KA as to what the roster is going to be. this is all a moot point really 😂

[OhMyDahlin]

44 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

That is, IF the GM even wanted to pursue Hall. And Hall would not have been a Buffalo Sabre, unless KA agreed and pursued it. If Krueger wanted Hall, but for some reason KA disagreed… He wouldn’t have been here. Krueger may have had influence… But he didn’t have the ultimate say over KA.  I can’t believe he had that much power. 

Oh, see that's where we really differ...I think Krueger had more power than we'll ever know.

I think he was the de facto GM last offseason, given the players we signed.

[Zamboni]

7 minutes ago, OhMyDahlin said:

Oh, see that's where we really differ...I think Krueger had more power than we'll ever know.

I think he was the de facto GM last offseason, given the players we signed.

At this point… Anything is/was possible  😂

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

The value of the cap space is infinitely smaller than Jack’s Trade Return in terms of value here though. I do not want to sacrifice a young roster player or prospect for cap space in this situation. 
 

The Sabres already have 32.6 Million in space.

Trading Jack, Sam and Risto opens another 21 Million, before any returns. 

Add Skinner to that and You have close to 62.6 Million in Cap Space. 
 

I’m not worried about cap space if they want to go big game hunting. 

Agree with the 2nd sentence, but I don't know about the "infinitely."

Each offer has to be considered as a whole, and it has to be considered how many players may be acquired or kept over the remaining 6 years of Skinner's contract if Skinner is moved.

[Doohicksie]

47 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

if for some reason KA did not want Hall under no circumstances. I don’t think Kruger would’ve had more say over KA as to what the roster is going to be. this is all a moot point really 😂

...and it occurs to me that maybe Krueger wanted Hall and wanted to lock him up for multi years, but KA had the good sense to limit it to a single year "let's see" deal.

[Doohicksie]

26 minutes ago, OhMyDahlin said:

Oh, see that's where we really differ...I think Krueger had more power than we'll ever know.

I think he was the de facto GM last offseason, given the players we signed.

I think it was KA trying to accommodate RK to give him the team he wanted.  With KA being new, he sought to cooperate with the brain trust which was basically Krueger.  I think as the season progressed he realized how much that just wasn't going to work.  I don't knock KA for accommodating Krueger; I think it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.  At that point the jury was still out on Krueger and if you want him to succeed, you try to give him the players he wants.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

I think it was KA trying to accommodate RK to give him the team he wanted.  With KA being new, he sought to cooperate with the brain trust which was basically Krueger.  I think as the season progressed he realized how much that just wasn't going to work.  I don't knock KA for accommodating Krueger; I think it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.  At that point the jury was still out on Krueger and if you want him to succeed, you try to give him the players he wants.

This is fair, but it doesn't excuse some of KA's decisions and as the GM you are responsible for all the decisions regardless.  Accommodating the coach is one thing, not fixing obvious hole in your roster (like the backup goalie) is another. 

[JohnC]

28 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is fair, but it doesn't excuse some of KA's decisions and as the GM you are responsible for all the decisions regardless.  Accommodating the coach is one thing, not fixing obvious hole in your roster (like the backup goalie) is another. 

I agree with you that not addressing the backup goalie position was a mistake that ended up quickly haunting this team. It seems as if KA thought he could get by with Hutton and his expiring contract. In hindsight that was a damaging decision. But as others have stated Krueger was the most influential hockey person in the organization. The personnel decisions that you have justifiably criticized were Krueger decisions. 

[Thorner]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with you that not addressing the backup goalie position was a mistake that ended up quickly haunting this team. It seems as if KA thought he could get by with Hutton and his expiring contract. In hindsight that was a damaging decision. But as others have stated Krueger was the most influential hockey person in the organization. The personnel decisions that you have justifiably criticized were Krueger decisions. 

This doesn't jive. Krueger can't be the most influential because someone gave him that power willingly. 

[dudacek]

To me it is fairly obvious that Kevyn was hired and told that Ralph says we’re close and knows what we need, work with him, and that’s what Kevyn did.

That in no way excuses him for what happened last year. But I do chalk a large chunk of it up to naïveté and eagerness to please more so than anything.

Let’s see what he learned and how he will use it.

[JohnC]

26 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This doesn't jive. Krueger can't be the most influential because someone gave him that power willingly. 

It does jive. A person was hired without experience to be the GM to replace the former GM who wouldn't follow the draconian instructions of the owner/s. Adams got the GM job but in reality he wasn't a fully fledged GM. What were his credentials? He was involved with the business side of the Pegula operation and not the hockey operation. From a credential standpoint his hiring was an absurdity. That was an owner decision. The personnel decisions were mostly Krueger decisions. In name KA was the GM but in reality Krueger was driving the operation. It was a crazy setup that I blame the owners for.  

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is fair, but it doesn't excuse some of KA's decisions and as the GM you are responsible for all the decisions regardless.  Accommodating the coach is one thing, not fixing obvious hole in your roster (like the backup goalie) is another. 

Yeah, the goalie thing was a disaster.

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

To me it is fairly obvious that Kevyn was hired and told that Ralph says we’re close and knows what we need, work with him, and that’s what Kevyn did.

That in no way excuses him for what happened last year. But I do chalk a large chunk of it up to naïveté and eagerness to please more so than anything.

Let’s see what he learned and how he will use it.

I think after a bad start, finally standing up to TPeg and letting Krueger go was a big step forward.  I think his balls dropped that day.

[Curt]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But your asking Kevyn Adams to spend money wisely and your hoping good FAs want to come here.  Those are huge ifs with zero evidence that KA is like capable of making those decisions.

Regardless of the path forward that the team takes, this could be said, in one form or another.

It boils down to: “Do you trust Adams to do X well?”

X could be anything: make a hockey trade, make a trade for futures, select players in the draft, negotiate with RFAs, sign players in UFA, select a coach.  It’s endless.

For most, the answer is no, because it’s hard to trust a guy you haven’t seen do it yet, but it is the same for anything.  Whatever the team does Adams will be doing it, so to me it doesn’t make sense to worry about him doing X, because if he isn’t doing that you’ll just worry about him doing Y instead.

If Adams is bad at his job, it’s not going to go well regardless of the strategy pursued.

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, Brawndo said:

No one, but that wasn’t the point of the post. I do not want to include Skinner in an Eichel Trade thereby, reducing the return.

If someone did want to sign with Buffalo, there would be enough space to do so with Skinner still being a Sabre. 

As much as I'd love to get rid of Skinner (in any way) there's simply no point in these things. Skinner isn't going anywhere. He wanted to be near southern Ontario and he just don't care so he's here until his contract is over unless we excommunicate him to some remote place as we've done before. We're stuck with him like it or not. 

[Rasmus_]

If you can get rid of Skinner's contract, then this is viable.  That's the only way a "Seattle" trade makes sense to me, while also procurring the 2nd overall pick.  Then you can take two of Beniers, Power, Eklund, Guenther, Edvinsson depending on your preference.