Shopping Jack Eichel: Anaheim

[Randall Flagg]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

MAF has never had back to back seasons below 910sv% going back 14 years. They aren't really comparable considering how Gibson has been bad the last 2 seasons and worse than Ullmark. Gibson being a center piece of the Eichel trade is a joke if that is the route they take. 

He was never on a team that came within like 30 points of how bad Anaheim is either. Gibson will have plenty of seasons left in which he is a stud 

 

14 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I agree, I'd love to acquire Gibson and keep Eichel. 

Wait, he'll be a key piece in losing our 1C? 

No thanks. Imagine trading your franchise C and replacing 65% of his salary with a slumping goalie about to play on a team inferior to the one he just did

Would be a laughable trade

In the suggested trade he's one of 4 pieces all better better anything we got in the ROR trade, it's not like it was eichel for Gibson and a 2nd.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

He was never on a team that came within like 30 points of how bad Anaheim is either. Gibson will have plenty of seasons left in which he is a stud 

 

In the suggested trade he's one of 4 pieces all better better anything we got in the ROR trade, it's not like it was eichel for Gibson and a 2nd.

Linus Ullmark just played on a crappier team and did better than Gibson. Not interested unless he's a cap dump in the deal to make money work. If he's a center piece this is a major screw up. 

[Randall Flagg]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Would be like trading ROR in his prime for 1 3rd line center, a 4th line grinder, a b level prospect and the 32nd overall pick. Same energy. 

No, because every single piece listed is more valuable than the most valuable thing st Louis gave us. They only gave us 3 things with net positive value anyway

[LGR4GM]

Ryan Miller outplayed Gibson in the 2019 season. 

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

No, because every single piece listed is more valuable than the most valuable thing st Louis gave us. They only gave us 3 things with net positive value anyway

Well Eichel is better than ROR but centering it on Gibson is absurd. 

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Linus Ullmark just played on a crappier team and did better than Gibson. Not interested unless he's a cap dump in the deal to make money work. If he's a center piece this is a major screw up. 

Ullmark is good yes. Is he staying ? Because he's a UFA and we have no NHL goalies besides him.

Gibson was too good and his "decline" is too correlated with the exact same kind of abominable fancy stat hockey that would make you reflexively defend a goalie when the context suited you

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

He was never on a team that came within like 30 points of how bad Anaheim is either. Gibson will have plenty of seasons left in which he is a stud 

 

In the suggested trade he's one of 4 pieces all better better anything we got in the ROR trade, it's not like it was eichel for Gibson and a 2nd.

I see Gibson as a good shot at negative value. 

A b prospect (I'd have the 1st we got for ROR above this)

Comtois - a good winger

3rd overall 

= a pittance for a top 10 league C at 24 years old

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Ryan Miller outplayed Gibson in the 2019 season. 

Well Eichel is better than ROR but centering it on Gibson is absurd. 

I don't view a trade of 3, Comtois, Perreault (who I think can be a stud) nd Gibson as centered on Gibson. He honestly looks more like funneling the salary we have to take back into a position of need instead of to Henrique than the centerpiece of that deal.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Ullmark is good yes. Is he staying ? Because he's a UFA and we have no NHL goalies besides him.

Gibson was too good and his "decline" is too correlated with the exact same kind of abominable fancy stat hockey that would make you reflexively defend a goalie when the context suited you

We'd be adding him to a team worse than Anaheim. For SIX.5 mil

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, Thorny said:

We'd be adding him to a team worse than Anaheim. For SIX.5 mil

The implication here is the always present and always failed expectation of making sure this is a good team next year haha.

[LGR4GM]

Let's actually look at this...

Tage Thompson at the time of the draft was a B level prospect expected to be a middle 6 forward. Maxim Comtois is better but at the time Tage was probably considered to be able to reach Comtois (didn't happen but this is equivalent). 

a 1st round pick : 3oa is better but we didn't know what the St Louis pick was going to be but better. 

2 dumps: Gibson

So basically the only improvement is the 3oa. Other than that it is the ROR trade all over again. Without Zegras or Drysdale the trade should be dead in the water. Gibson doesn't move the needle much. 

 

[Randall Flagg]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I see Gibson as a good shot at negative value. 

A b prospect (I'd have the 1st we got for ROR above this)

Comtois - a good winger

3rd overall 

= a pittance for a top 10 league C at 24 years old

I absolutely would push for a better trade than this and add to it. I just won't melt down like I did for ror if we get this. If it's worse than this then I sure will.

 

Part of it is watching some Perreault and seeing something there. I think his tools are very nice and I think he has a shot at being the best piece of those 4

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

I absolutely would push for a better trade than this and add to it. I just won't melt down like I did for ror if we get this. If it's worse than this then I sure will.

 

Part of it is watching some Perreault and seeing something there. I think his tools are very nice and I think he has a shot at being the best piece of those 4

You won't melt down if we trade Jack Eichel for a goalie who might be a decent backup, a 2nd line winger, and 3oa in mediocre draft... hell, I might become a Kraken fan if that is the way they go. 

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

The implication here is the always present and always failed expectation of making sure this is a good team next year haha.

My opinions are on the precipice of admittedly being obsolete around here because I funnel most of them through the idea of making the playoffs next year. I've accepted that to be the case I'm just not done complaining about it yet. 

Maybe it's really annoying. I get that. It's just...the Sabres are really annoying. Urgh. I'll get on board with the development year once the games start. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Let's actually look at this...

Tage Thompson at the time of the draft was a B level prospect expected to be a middle 6 forward. Maxim Comtois is better but at the time Tage was probably considered to be able to reach Comtois (didn't happen but this is equivalent). 

a 1st round pick : 3oa is better but we didn't know what the St Louis pick was going to be but better. 

2 dumps: Gibson

So basically the only improvement is the 3oa. Other than that it is the ROR trade all over again. Without Zegras or Drysdale the trade should be dead in the water. Gibson doesn't move the needle much. 

 

Lol, no. Wanna do a charity bet on John Gibson's impact on an NHL team in the next 2 years over the worst offensive forward in the NHL, sobotka, and guy who quits on his team, Berglund? You state the terms.

Tage Thompson was someone nobody had ever heard of and was left off of most Blues fans top 5 prospects lists months prior to trade. The first was guaranteed to not be a top 10 pick by trade stipulations. This trade was, the second it happened, obviously one of the biggest losing trades in franchise history and I would take every single piece in the potential Anaheim deal over the best piece in the ROR trade. It's not ideal and I'd push for more, but you cannot say with a straight face that these trades are interchangeable in their ability to impact buffalo sabres success over the following 5 years.

[Thorner]

Gibson isn't going to win you hockey games. If he "returns to form", the idea would be to keep the young players of our team "in the game" for as long as possible so as to facilitate growth

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You won't melt down if we trade Jack Eichel for a goalie who might be a decent backup, a 2nd line winger, and 3oa in mediocre draft... hell, I might become a Kraken fan if that is the way they go. 

I'm keeping these receipts r.e. Gibson

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

Lol, no. Wanna do a charity bet on John Gibson's impact on an NHL team in the next 2 years over the worst offensive forward in the NHL, sobotka, and guy who quits on his team, Berglund? You state the terms.

Tage Thompson was someone nobody had ever heard of and was left off of most Blues fans top 5 prospects lists months prior to trade. The first was guaranteed to not be a top 10 pick by trade stipulations. This trade was, the second it happened, obviously one of the biggest losing trades in franchise history and I would take every single piece in the potential Anaheim deal over the best piece in the ROR trade. It's not ideal and I'd push for more, but you cannot say with a straight face that these trades are interchangeable in their ability to impact buffalo sabres success over the following 5 years.

You are so far lost on this it is shocking. John Gibson is a reclamation project and you are arguing that he is a major piece of the Jack Eichel trade.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I absolutely would push for a better trade than this and add to it. I just won't melt down like I did for ror if we get this. If it's worse than this then I sure will.

 

Part of it is watching some Perreault and seeing something there. I think his tools are very nice and I think he has a shot at being the best piece of those 4

Better than 3OA? This surprises me

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

I'm keeping these receipts r.e. Gibson

Keep them all you want. When Gibson goes from a .904 to a .910 for one season I am sure you will let me know all about it. 

[Randall Flagg]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

My opinions are on the precipice of admittedly being obsolete around here because I funnel most of them through the idea of making the playoffs next year. I've accepted that to be the case I'm just not done complaining about it yet. 

Maybe it's really annoying. I get that. It's just...the Sabres are really annoying. Urgh. I'll get on board with the development year once the games start. 

Getting Gibson would be our best shot at making next year matter because of uncertainty in UFA goalie pool. I get that it's a bit of a risk but goalies go on roller coasters and that decline doesn't scare me 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You are so far lost on this it is shocking. John Gibson is a reclamation project and you are arguing that he is a major piece of the Jack Eichel trade.

He thinks he's a lower asset in the equation

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You are so far lost on this it is shocking. John Gibson is a reclamation project and you are arguing that he is a major piece of the Jack Eichel trade.

You are arguing that John Gibson maps to Vlad Sobotka. Again, I have the receipts. This guy isn't done being a top 10 goalie 

Just now, Thorny said:

He thinks he's a lower asset in the equation

Thank you. He'd be the necessary salary balance. I'd rather have him do that than Henrique

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

Getting Gibson would be our best shot at making next year matter because of uncertainty in UFA goalie pool. I get that it's a bit of a risk but goalies go on roller coasters and that decline doesn't scare me 

 

Just now, Thorny said:

He thinks he's a lower asset in the equation

Does he? Seems like he thinks Gibson is a valuable asset coming back that will fix our goaltending. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Getting Gibson would be our best shot at making next year matter because of uncertainty in UFA goalie pool. I get that it's a bit of a risk but goalies go on roller coasters and that decline doesn't scare me 

To me I see a very slim chance he can elevate the team we are going to ice to more wins - the WAR of goalies league -wide doesn't support that - nevermind a goalie with the falling numbers of Gibson. Like I said, I don't think he makes the team much better particularly considering who we are giving up, but if by "matter" you mean "keep us IN games", with a return to form I could see that yes. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Randall Flagg said:

You are arguing that John Gibson maps to Vlad Sobotka. Again, I have the receipts. This guy isn't done being a top 10 goalie 

Thank you. He'd be the necessary salary balance. I'd rather have him do that than Henrique

No, actually what I mapped was Gibson maps to the cap dump of Sobotka and Berglund which is exactly what it would be. Could he be more useful? Yes I would assume he will be but Eichel is also better.