Sabres' options: Owen Power

[dudacek]

Am I wrong to see Power as the combination of the best qualities of Samuelsson and Johnson with a tad more offence?

Is it wrong to project him as the guy always on the ice when you are up a goal, playing against the other teams top forwards?

[pi2000]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Am I wrong to see Power as the combination of the best qualities of Samuelsson and Johnson with a tad more offence?

Is it wrong to project him as the guy always on the ice when you are up a goal, playing against the other teams top forwards?

You're not wrong.   He's already filling that role for Team Canada at the WCs.    He was on the ice the final minute of regulation and started the 3-on-3 OT session, winning player of the game for Canada.

That said, he's not as physical as a Samuelsson maybe more in the mold of a Brett Burns or Shea Theodore.

Edited June 4, 2021 by pi2000

[dudacek]

8 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

It makes zero sense to take power when you have 2 players that make up 90% of the offense and will be gone.

 

8 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

Did you forget about all the LHD we have ? 

Look at our wing and centers we have nothing 

 

So Quinn and Peterka and Thompson and Mittelstadt and Cozens (not to mention Eichel, Reinhart or their returns) aren’t reasons for not drafting a forward, but Samuelsson and Johnson mean drafting a defenceman is a mistake?

Not following your reasoning there.

I have no idea who the best player is, but if there is a player who is better than the rest, that’s the one I want, regardless of position.

You don’t not draft Malkin because you have Crosby. 

[dudacek]

13 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

You're not wrong.   He's already filling that role for Team Canada at the WCs.    He was on the ice the final minute of regulation and started the 3-on-3 OT session, winning player of the game for Canada.

That said, he's not as physical as a Samuelsson maybe more in the mold of a Brett Burns or Shea Theodore.

I know he has nowhere near the physical presence, but am I wrong to think he can evolve into playing the role Ristolainen plays for Buffalo, except do it well?

[pi2000]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I know he has nowhere near the physical presence, but am I wrong to think he can evolve into playing the role Ristolainen plays for Buffalo, except do it well?

That's my vision for him.   

He's the guy you can throw out there in all key situations, PP/PK/OT, end of periods, close games, etc... and eat 25min/night.... eventually.     

[DarthEbriate]

21 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Good point, but now you're talking about drafting for need... or lack of need at D.   

I'd argue that big, skilled, smart D is more valuable than a top 6 F... they're certainly much more difficult to acquire than a similarly skilled forward.   
You draft Beniers and then if you move Risto and McCabe doesn't come back, suddenly the D is looking pretty thin.   

I say draft BPA Power and then if you suddenly have a surplus of left shot D, throw in a guy like a Borgen or Bryson as part of some package (Reinhart?) to sweeten the return.     Having Power in the cupboard opens up all kinds of possibilities and shores up a top pairing or top 4 spot for the next 15 years.  

That's remains the great debate -- is he demonstrably the BPA or is he the most noticeable since Hughes is hurt and Team Canada is icing a really poor roster at the Worlds that barely eked out an elimination round ahead of Latvia and Kazakhstan? And I must say, I'm good with taking Power if the Sabres deem him the BPA. My reservation is the future. What this team needs is ROR or Bergeron. If that's Beniers, then that's the tiebreaker. This team also needs a scoring winger who can stay on the top line (looking at you, Skinner) and push Olofsson to 3W or even specialist 4W like Kotalik was. Maybe Guenther is that guy. That's the fun of these discussions.

What I'm reluctant to become is a team like Anaheim where they've got Lindholm, Fowler, and Manson (and had Theodore and Montour) and still were floundering because they could only ice one quality forward line whose best players were past their prime and carrying all the cap (for us that's Skinner, and I guess Eichel if he's still here). We need more balanced lines for all the young D we've already got on the way.

Note: I don't count McCabe or Risto for the future. McCabe should get a one-year rehab-prove-it deal as he'll only be about 9 months from his major knee injury during training camp. He'll be untrustworthy to start the season, but I would like him to sign as it would allow Samuelsson to get more time in Rochester logging top-pair minutes. If McCabe signs as the 7D after next year, fine. Risto is gone at the deadline if we're not contending (likely) and gone after the playoffs if we (somehow) make it.

(And, only half-sarcastically, if we did draft for need, I'd point out Wallstedt. 1st is too high, but this team needs all the goalies.)

[Hoss]

18 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

With the graduation of Mitts and Cozens to the NHL, please name our top Center prospect? We have goalies, we have D and we have two top flight wingers in JJP and Quinn.  
 

Beniers reminds me of one player in the NHL and his name is Patrice Bergeron.  

Powers is a fine player but with Dahlin, Joker, Bryson, Samuelson, Borgen and Laaksonen and Johnson coming we have plenty of young D to work with.  
This draft is deep with D and a good one should be available in the second Rd.

Grab the next Bergeron and we can say good bye to tank 1.0 and get on with a proper rebuild and a great young spine of Mitts, Cozens and Beniers.  

Assuming any of those D you named will turn out to be stellar and reliable NHL dmen is a mistake. Take BPA (it's Power).

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I keep asking. There's 6 defenders and 12 forwards but we're in here worried about defensive depth on a team that doesn't score. 

So much is going to change on this roster between now and the time that Power (or whoever is drafted) comes into their own ... So if Power is your clear number one you take him and don't even think about anyone else.

[Curt]

7 hours ago, pi2000 said:

He has better skill and hockey sense than Parayko did at his age.

I have him somewhere between Tyler Myers and Bobby Orr.

Love it

[Hoss]

I think we’re honestly overthinking this and a lot of people are talking themselves out of Power because it’s not flashy or fun. 

 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

I think we’re honestly overthinking this and a lot of people are talking themselves out of Power because it’s not flashy or fun. 

 

 

This board is 90-95% on board with taking Power. The 5% who have spoken against him or suggested someone else have been LOUDLY shouted down and told basically that they are ***** idiots. 

Best part is I like Power as a player a lot but when we draft him and I say that I will get to listen to all the BS and venom I do when Ryan Johnson comes up. So very excited for Power to be a Sabre because I wont be allowed to enjoy a good player for the simply reason I put another player above him in my personal opinion.

You question anything about Power and you get "he's the BPA" so shut it. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Am I wrong to see Power as the combination of the best qualities of Samuelsson and Johnson with a tad more offence?

Is it wrong to project him as the guy always on the ice when you are up a goal, playing against the other teams top forwards?

Kinda... Samuelsson has a physical edge we have yet to see in Power consistently. His offense is a step below Johnson but Johnson is older and being shorter probably means he's ahead in that dev curve. I would expect Power to overtake Johnson this year and idk about his physicality, I am skeptical that can be taught. 

I am fairly certain Beniers and Power were out a lot late in Michigan. If his defensive game keeps developing (he really should stay at Michigan until March) then yes I think that is what we could expect. He could be paired with a Will Borgen type and shut down a lot of things.  My only concern will be that I think our forwards lack enough talent to support the defense still. The really nice thing is that Power can bring the puck up ice like a poor man's Dahlin so there's that in his toolbox outside of just his passing (he's a very good passer). 

[French Collection]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Please keep posting draft material, I love that stuff and the debates and evaluations on prospective picks. 

I have not made up my mind yet but as of today I would take Power. However, I think there is a need for Beniers and would move down a pick or two to get him.

Edited June 4, 2021 by French Collection

[LGR4GM]

Just now, French Collection said:

Please keep posting draft material, I love that stuff and the debates and evaluations on prospective picks. 

I have not made up my mind yet but as of today I would take Power. However, I think there is a need for Beniers and would move down a pick or two to get him.

please delete my quote, I edited what I said for clarity

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Please keep posting draft material, I love that stuff and the debates and evaluations on prospective picks. 

I have not made up my mind yet but as of today I would take Power. However, I think there is a need for Beniers and would move down a pick or two to get him.

Power is a good defender and liking him makes sense. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

I think we’re honestly overthinking this and a lot of people are talking themselves out of Power because it’s not flashy or fun. 

 

It seems like majority are on board with taking Power.  I many more have talked themselves into him than vice versa.

I think as the season has gone on, Power seems to have improved a lot.  Personally I think I’m going to need to reevaluate from where I was a couple months ago.  I like Beniers a lot, but I want to take another look at Power vs Clarke and Hughes.

[Flashsabre]

8 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

That's remains the great debate -- is he demonstrably the BPA or is he the most noticeable since Hughes is hurt and Team Canada is icing a really poor roster at the Worlds that barely eked out an elimination round ahead of Latvia and Kazakhstan? And I must say, I'm good with taking Power if the Sabres deem him the BPA. My reservation is the future. What this team needs is ROR or Bergeron. If that's Beniers, then that's the tiebreaker. This team also needs a scoring winger who can stay on the top line (looking at you, Skinner) and push Olofsson to 3W or even specialist 4W like Kotalik was. Maybe Guenther is that guy. That's the fun of these discussions.

What I'm reluctant to become is a team like Anaheim where they've got Lindholm, Fowler, and Manson (and had Theodore and Montour) and still were floundering because they could only ice one quality forward line whose best players were past their prime and carrying all the cap (for us that's Skinner, and I guess Eichel if he's still here). We need more balanced lines for all the young D we've already got on the way.

Note: I don't count McCabe or Risto for the future. McCabe should get a one-year rehab-prove-it deal as he'll only be about 9 months from his major knee injury during training camp. He'll be untrustworthy to start the season, but I would like him to sign as it would allow Samuelsson to get more time in Rochester logging top-pair minutes. If McCabe signs as the 7D after next year, fine. Risto is gone at the deadline if we're not contending (likely) and gone after the playoffs if we (somehow) make it.

(And, only half-sarcastically, if we did draft for need, I'd point out Wallstedt. 1st is too high, but this team needs all the goalies.)

But the counter argument is if Eichel and Reinhart stay the offence is much better and you have younger guys like Mitts and Tage and Cozens and Ruots that should take another step offensively and Quinn and JJ developing. And you can always trade for or sign a scorer.

If Eichel and Reinhart and Risto are moved then you are getting some top end young offensive talent in return and picks to use on offensive talent.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Flashsabre

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Flashsabre said:

But the counter argument is if Eichel and Reinhart stay the offence is much better and you have younger guys like Mitts and Tage and Cozens and Ruots that should take another step offensively and Quinn and JJ developing. And you can always trade for or sign a scorer.

If Eichel and Reinhart and Risto are moved then you are getting some top end young offensive talent in return and picks to use on offensive talent.

If Eichel and Reinhart and  

You can always trade for a defender. Hamilton has been traded I think twice. Top scoring is rarely traded. 

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Kinda... Samuelsson has a physical edge we have yet to see in Power consistently. His offense is a step below Johnson but Johnson is older and being shorter probably means he's ahead in that dev curve. I would expect Power to overtake Johnson this year and idk about his physicality, I am skeptical that can be taught. 

I am fairly certain Beniers and Power were out a lot late in Michigan. If his defensive game keeps developing (he really should stay at Michigan until March) then yes I think that is what we could expect. He could be paired with a Will Borgen type and shut down a lot of things.  My only concern will be that I think our forwards lack enough talent to support the defense still. The really nice thing is that Power can bring the puck up ice like a poor man's Dahlin so there's that in his toolbox outside of just his passing (he's a very good passer). 

Oh I looked it up. Power is above Johnson in points already. I think Power was on a better team but he's already at or above Johnson in terms of offense. Sorry, I thought Johnson topped 20 points for some reason. Basically Power and Johnson are probably equal and Power will overtake Johnson this season probably. 

[LGR4GM]

Power's ev primary and all primary points per game numbers are higher than Ryan Johnson's this past season. 

Power: 0.3462 EV/P1, 0.5385 P1/PG

Johnson: 0.2222EV/P1, 0.2592P1/PG

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Kinda... Samuelsson has a physical edge we have yet to see in Power consistently. His offense is a step below Johnson but Johnson is older and being shorter probably means he's ahead in that dev curve. I would expect Power to overtake Johnson this year and idk about his physicality, I am skeptical that can be taught. 

I am fairly certain Beniers and Power were out a lot late in Michigan. If his defensive game keeps developing (he really should stay at Michigan until March) then yes I think that is what we could expect. He could be paired with a Will Borgen type and shut down a lot of things.  My only concern will be that I think our forwards lack enough talent to support the defense still. The really nice thing is that Power can bring the puck up ice like a poor man's Dahlin so there's that in his toolbox outside of just his passing (he's a very good passer). 

I'm surprised to read the bold, considering Power put up better numbers this year than Johnson did despite being 1 1/2 years younger.

Also, how does Power's 16 points in 26 games compare historically? I think people were saying it's a very low NHLe, but on the surface they seem like pretty solid numbers for a true freshman college defenceman.

40 points in 45 games as a 16-year-old D in the USHL seems pretty damn good too.

EDIT: Posted before I read your latest.

Edited June 4, 2021 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Power's ev primary and all primary points per game numbers are higher than Ryan Johnson's this past season. 

Power: 0.3462 EV/P1, 0.5385 P1/PG

Johnson: 0.2222EV/P1, 0.2592P1/PG

 

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm surprised to read the bold, considering Power put up better numbers this year than Johnson did despite being 1 1/2 years younger.

Also, how does Power's 16 points in 26 games compare historically? I think people were saying it's a very low NHLe, but on the surface they seem like pretty solid numbers for a true freshman college defenceman.

See above and I will add Quinn Hughes who is the only other comparable defender in the pool.

Q Hughes: 0.3514 EV, 0.5405 P1

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by LGR4GM

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

See above and I will add Quinn Hughes who is the only other comparable defender in the pool.

Q Hughes: 0.3514 EV, 0.5405 P1

 

So very comparable to Quinn Hughes?

For a guy who's not known as offence-first, that's intriguing.

Thanks.

[LGR4GM]

List of D+1 players who topped Power 2018-2020

Zac Jones in 2020

K'andre Miller in 2019

Quinn Hughes actually went down in his D+1 year, probably due to the team more than him. That's the hard part to analyze is how much the team impacts numbers especially for defenders collecting assists. For defenders it is really important to cut out 2nd assists to see how they drive scoring. 

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

So very comparable to Quinn Hughes?

For a guy who's not known as offence-first, that's intriguing.

Thanks.

In terms of even strength and all primary points per game yes

Edited June 4, 2021 by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

Power has about 1.4845 p/60 which I don't have a comparable for because that stat is not measured on Pick224 back that far.