IIHF worlds

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Marco Rossi projected out at a level akin to Jack Eichel. Draft Eligible Players don't score that many points in the OHL often. Byfield was the next closest comparable followed by Svechnikov. That's crazy good production and we passed on it. I like Quinn, and in a lot of years he would be the perfect #8 pick but not in 2020. If Quinn were in this draft he would be a top 5 guy but again not in 2020. The Sabres as an organization seem to channel Kim Pegula's mantra of "we know a little more than the fans" and this results in them thinking they are clever when they just come off as dumb. Now Quinn could absolutely have a better career and Rossi getting covid gave that feeble theory some life but the numbers tell us that is not the most likely outcome. 

Pure supposition but I've said before I think they actively wanted to avoid taking the guy the GM they just canned had pegged as his man. 

3 minutes ago, inkman said:

Huh.  I haven’t heard anyone say this before. 

Say what?

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Pure supposition but I've said before I think they actively wanted to avoid taking the guy the GM they just canned had pegged as his man. 

Say what?

I wonder if that also played into it and I wonder if they thought Rossi was at his peak. The problem I have is that Rossi might have been at his OHL peak but that isn't the same as being at his NHL peak. 

[dudacek]

It was Pronman who had Quinn to the Sabres:

Buffalo Sabres: Jack Quinn, RW, Ottawa-OHL

Trying to figure out the Sabres has been tough with the moving pieces from new management coming in, but the two names I’ve heard the most are the two Ottawa forwards in Quinn and Marco Rossi. I’ve been hearing Quinn more often now and think that could be the pick

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It was Pronman who had Quinn to the Sabres:

Buffalo Sabres: Jack Quinn, RW, Ottawa-OHL

Trying to figure out the Sabres has been tough with the moving pieces from new management coming in, but the two names I’ve heard the most are the two Ottawa forwards in Quinn and Marco Rossi. I’ve been hearing Quinn more often now and think that could be the pick

So perhaps the closer we get, there's reason to think the names we hear will be reasonably dialed in. The above certainly fits - we weren't hearing a lot about Quinn at first because he wasn't going to be the guy under JB, but Quinn "more often" started coming up as we got closer (and the GM change happened). 

Who have we heard again so far that the Sabres like? Beniers?

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

So perhaps the closer we get, there's reason to think the names we hear will be reasonably dialed in. The above certainly fits - we weren't hearing a lot about Quinn at first because he wasn't going to be the guy under JB, but Quinn "more often" started coming up as we got closer (and the GM change happened). 

Who have we heard again so far that the Sabres like? Beniers?

Beniers is literally the only name I’ve seen linked with them, although I’ve yet to really dive into the draft.

They are likely picking at three, and I will be surprised if Beniers isnt the pick. Given Power’s growing consensus as #1 and your well-considered arguments as to what that means, it also seems likely Power is the man at #1.

Therefore, they will be picking #2.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Beniers is literally the only name I’ve seen linked with them, although I’ve yet to really dive into the draft.

They are likely picking at three, and I will be surprised if Beniers isnt the pick. Given Power’s growing consensus as #1 and your well-considered arguments as to what that means, it also seems likely Power is the man at #1.

Therefore, they will be picking #2.

2 or 3? Do you think Beniers makes it past 2?

Also, do you think we take Power at 1 if we win the lotto?

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

2 or 3? Do you think Beniers makes it past 2?

Depends on the team picking there and their need for offence.

Ive seen Beniers ranked in the 7-8 range. Pronman and McKenzie each had him at 4.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Depends on the team picking there and their need for offence.

Ive seen Beniers ranked in the 7-8 range. Pronman and McKenzie each had him at 4.

Where? Genuinely curious as I don't know anyone off the top of my head who has him ranked below 4. 

Wait, I lied Puck Authority is the only place I know that has him below 4, they have him at 8. 

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Depends on the team picking there and their need for offence.

Ive seen Beniers ranked in the 7-8 range. Pronman and McKenzie each had him at 4.

Ok, I've heard enough about his aptitude from liger and the likelihood he'll be the pick, from you: my expectation is Beniers will be the pick, and if not I'll have no choice but to conclude that the entirety of Adams' tenure is an objective failure, and that he should be fired immediately. 

I'm locked in. 

[LGR4GM]

Puck Authority hasn't released new rankings since January. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Where? Genuinely curious as I don't know anyone off the top of my head who has him ranked below 4. 

Great question. I know I saw it, but I don’t remember where, or how old or credible the list was.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thorny said:

Ok, I've heard enough about his aptitude from liger and the likelihood he'll be the pick, from you: my expectation is Beniers will be the pick, and if not I'll have no choice but to conclude that the entirety of Adams' tenure is an objective failure, and that he should be fired immediately. 

I'm locked in. 

Adams was smart enough to draft JJ Peterka. Hard to get a read on Adams drafting when he only had 2 picks that have mattered thus far and only 5 picks in total. 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Where? Genuinely curious as I don't know anyone off the top of my head who has him ranked below 4. 

Wait, I lied Puck Authority is the only place I know that has him below 4, they have him at 8. 

Apparently "Neutral Zone" has him at 18

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/201739/matthew-beniers

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams was smart enough to draft JJ Peterka. Hard to get a read on Adams drafting when he only had 2 picks that have mattered thus far and only 5 picks in total. 

Fired immediately. 

 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Apparently "Neutral Zone" has him at 18

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/201739/matthew-beniers

Fired immediately. 

 

How much are we reading into Jeremiah Crowe leading last year’s draft, and now being moved out of amateur scouting altogether?

Is that an indictment of who we picked?

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Apparently "Neutral Zone" has him at 18

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/201739/matthew-beniers

Fired immediately. 

 

idk what Neutral Zone is but they also haven't updated ***** since December. 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

How much are we reading into Jeremiah Crowe leading last year’s draft, and now being moved out of amateur scouting altogether?

Is that an indictment of who we picked?

I'm not sure how likely it is that they'd feel they could make any kind of accurate judgement on the success of the picks from that draft yet, particularly given all the specific unusualness to this season.

Didn't Crowe get moved to Head of Pro Scouting or something? Just going off memory, could be wrong. Seems a lateral move if not a promotion so I can't imagine they have too much of a negative view of the work he's done, draft included, probably. 

[Thorner]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

idk what Neutral Zone is but they also haven't updated ***** since December. 

Federation and Romulan safe space 

[dudacek]

19 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'm not sure how likely it is that they'd feel they could make any kind of accurate judgement on the success of the picks from that draft yet, particularly given all the specific unusualness to this season.

Didn't Crowe get moved to Head of Pro Scouting or something? Just going off memory, could be wrong. Seems a lateral move if not a promotion so I can't imagine they have too much of a negative view of the work he's done, draft included, probably. 

It was a demotion. He was a random pro scout with a USNDP background elevated to being the head of all scouting - pro and amateur.

He was asked to re-rank the work of Botterill’s large team on grading the 2020 draft based on new criteria from Adams, with greater analytics input from Nightengale, but no further input from any new scouts.

This resulted in the somewhat controversial pick of Quinn, and in moving up for Peterka. 

He oversaw a skeleton group of scouts gathering info on this year’s prospects while also leading the pro scouts through a patchwork pandemic few months of hockey before being shuffled into a strictly pro scouting role again, with his amateur duties handed over to Jerry Forton, a pre-existing college scout.

It seems like his scouting director responsibilities have been passed over to Karmanos, who will lead the still-small staff through creating the list, based on whatever information has been acquired under Crowe’s part-time direction.

It has also been hinted that a real scouting director will be hired after this year’s draft.

All told, it doesn’t bode well for this year’s draft.

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

Matt Beniers

 

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It was a demotion. He was a random pro scout with a USNDP background elevated to being the head of all scouting - pro and amateur.

He was asked to re-rank the work of Botterill’s large team on grading the 2020 draft based on new criteria from Adams, with greater analytics input from Nightengale, but no further input from any new scouts.

This resulted in the somewhat controversial pick of Quinn, and in moving up for Peterka. 

He oversaw a skeleton group of scouts gathering info on this year’s prospects while also leading the pro scouts through a patchwork pandemic few months of hockey before being shuffled into a strictly pro scouting role again, with his amateur duties handed over to Jerry Forton, a pre-existing college scout.

It seems like his scouting director responsibilities have been passed over to Karmanos, who will lead the still-small staff through creating the list, based on whatever information has been acquired under Crowe’s part-time direction.

It has also been hinted that a real scouting director will be hired after this year’s draft.

All told, it doesn’t bode well for this year’s draft.

 

Karmanos is the only name in here that doesn't make me twitch slightly. Yet.

The bold - I expect them to lean into what they know, and the trends they've felt comfortable in in the past

[Norcal]

Craig Ramsay is coaching Slovakia in the Worlds!? Cool. 

Man, what a grinder he was. 

[Buffalonill]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Matt Beniers

 

How he only got five minutes game play Is ridiculous.

[Flashsabre]

13 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

How he only got five minutes game play Is ridiculous.

Especially with the guys playing in front of him but the old NHL adage of vet pecking order.

[Flashsabre]

I’m thinking Power or Beniers depending on draft spot so just like last year:

”The Sabres are proud to select from the University of Michigan......Kent Johnson”

”We really see Johnson as a Sabre”

The only one I really don’t want is Edvinsson so I am preparing myself for that selection.😆

[LGR4GM]

30 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

How he only got five minutes game play Is ridiculous.

 

16 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Especially with the guys playing in front of him but the old NHL adage of vet pecking order.

vet pecking order is the answer. NHL teams are willing to fall face first if it means getting that over the hill vet more playing time.