Shopping Jack Eichel: Vegas

[JohnC]

28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It would be one extra prospect. Singular, either Dorofeyev OR Korczak. 

Tuch just had surgery and is out 6 months if you want to talk major risks. That's an unproven prospect, an unknown 1st round pick, and an injured Tuch for Eichel. That is a bad deal. 

That isn't good. Krebs has to hit as a top 6 forward. Maybe Vegas shouldn't be the enemy of a good deal instead of getting Eichel. 

I'm aware that Tuch's is going to need six months for recovery and rehab to get back on the ice. He is expected to come back to full health. So I don't see the health risk that you do. That's in contrast to Eichel's injury where there are some legitimate questions whether he will play this season at all. And it should be noted that is not out of the realm that he may never regain the elite form that he previously had.  

Of course if the Sabres could get more then I'm all for it. But if they can't attain the higher return then adjusting to the situation and the market isn't an unreasonable approach to take. I understand why you wouldn't want to make the deal that I would find reasonable but I would make the deal if given the opportunity.  

[Flashsabre]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

What’s their value compared to Hague?  Cause I like his potential. 

Dorofeyev is an offensive winger with top 6 potential.  Korczak is a big RHD that plays a tough, physical game and has some offensive potential. Hague is a LHD which they seem to have in spades at the moment.  Any of the 3 would be good gets if paired with Krebs in a package.

[Gabrielor]

Krebs = top 6 center potential

Korczak = suitable Borgen replacement, and younger.

 

The rest of the deal can almost just be salary assistance from me. I'd take their 1st, but I'm not going to hang the deal on it.

[LGR4GM]

53 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm aware that Tuch's is going to need six months for recovery and rehab to get back on the ice. He is expected to come back to full health. So I don't see the health risk that you do. That's in contrast to Eichel's injury where there are some legitimate questions whether he will play this season at all. And it should be noted that is not out of the realm that he may never regain the elite form that he previously had.  

Of course if the Sabres could get more then I'm all for it. But if they can't attain the higher return then adjusting to the situation and the market isn't an unreasonable approach to take. I understand why you wouldn't want to make the deal that I would find reasonable but I would make the deal if given the opportunity.  

Since when? Fusion surgery is a longer recovery and replacement is shorter (in time for the season). No one has said this in the know. 

You don't know that Tuch won't have any lingering effects from knee surgery. All surgery presents risks of never getting back to elite form. 

[JimS]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Since when? Fusion surgery is a longer recovery and replacement is shorter (in time for the season). No one has said this in the know. 

You don't know that Tuch won't have any lingering effects from knee surgery. All surgery presents risks of never getting back to elite form. 

Shoulder surgery

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Since when? Fusion surgery is a longer recovery and replacement is shorter (in time for the season). No one has said this in the know. 

You don't know that Tuch won't have any lingering effects from knee surgery. All surgery presents risks of never getting back to elite form. 

I'm aware that the fusion surgery requires a longer recovery and the replacement surgery requires a shorter timeframe. I have not said otherwise. But what makes this outcome tougher to predict is that he will eventually return to the ice playing in a crash sport. 

Just a side note: Tuch is having shoulder surgery. That is a common surgery in hockey. The outcomes are usually good. 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I'm aware that the fusion surgery requires a longer recovery and the replacement surgery requires a shorter timeframe. I have not said otherwise. But what makes this outcome tougher to predict is that he will eventually return to the ice playing in a crash sport. 

Just a side note: Tuch is having shoulder surgery. That is a common surgery in hockey. The outcomes are usually good. 

I am going to start using "I'm am aware" when you tell me things about prospects I already know. 

Outcomes for both neck surgeries are usually good. idk what a "crash sport" is but if you mean a contact sport than sure, Eichel will be involved in contact with other players. That still does not lower his value below Seth Jones. 

[LGR4GM]

There's risk and question trading for any player and any player who has surgery. Idk why we are debating that. Also there is 0 indication Eichel will not play next year. If teams don't want the risk and won't pay up, don't trade him, it is that simple. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I am going to start using "I'm am aware" when you tell me things about prospects I already know. 

Outcomes for both neck surgeries are usually good. idk what a "crash sport" is but if you mean a contact sport than sure, Eichel will be involved in contact with other players. That still does not lower his value below Seth Jones. 

Apparently based on the reported offers the injured Jack value is less than Jones's value. If completely healthy there is no question that Jack has more market value. But in this situation that is not the case. 

[JohnC]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

There's risk and question trading for any player and any player who has surgery. Idk why we are debating that. Also there is 0 indication Eichel will not play next year. If teams don't want the risk and won't pay up, don't trade him, it is that simple. 

I agree with the highlighted segment. I have stated that position. Where I fundamentally disagree with you is that I would be willing to deal him if an offer was reasonable. Obviously, my expected return is less than yours.  

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Apparently based on the reported offers the injured Jack value is less than Jones's value. If completely healthy there is no question that Jack has more market value. But in this situation that is not the case. 

Only the reported rangers offers

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I agree with the highlighted segment. I have stated that position. Where I fundamentally disagree with you is that I would be willing to deal him if an offer was reasonable. Obviously, my expected return is less than yours.  

We fundamentally disagree on what a ppg center is worth, yes. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Zamboni]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Only the reported rangers offers

We fundamentally disagree on what a ppg center is worth, yes. 

I think you both disagree on what a “need spine surgery ASAP” PPE center is worth.

 

I personally want as much as KA can squeeze out of a GM before Eichel’s NMC kicks in.

[thewookie1]

Here's another run at a Vegas trade

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/2695992

[Flashsabre]

4 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Here's another run at a Vegas trade

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/2695992

I really think the Pegulas don’t want to take on more money then they have to. Adams wants mainly futures in any trades but that just isn’t going to be possible without some money coming back. I think it would cut down on the Vegas deal and rule out the Henrique deal. Koskinen for a year could happen as they do need something in net this season.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

I really think the Pegulas don’t want to take on more money then they have to. Adams wants mainly futures in any trades but that just isn’t going to be possible without some money coming back. I think it would cut down on the Vegas deal and rule out the Henrique deal. Koskinen for a year could happen as they do need something in net this season.

I think the avoidance of veterans coming back is more about bringing in yet another player that doesn’t want to be here and will pout to get out than it has to do with salary.

[dudacek]

I will say that as a guy who throughly enjoyed the play of Team Canada at the World Juniors this year, the thought of potentially adding Krebs to our team puts a huge smile on my face.

That was a team that outscored their opponents 41-6 and didn’t allow an even strength goal until their seventh game, and it’s best players were Byrum, Drysdale, Krebs, Levi and Cozens, with Jack Quinn chipping in 5 points and a tourney 3rd best overall +10.

[LGR4GM]

On 8/5/2021 at 11:36 AM, Weave said:

I think the avoidance of veterans coming back is more about bringing in yet another player that doesn’t want to be here and will pout to get out than it has to do with salary.

I don't think Reilly is that type of person

[Hoss]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think Reilly is that type of person

I legitimately don’t believe there’s a single veteran in the NHL who has other options who would want to be here.

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I legitimately don’t believe there’s a single veteran in the NHL who has other options who would want to be here.

I agree with you that most veterans with options wouldn't want to come to Buffalo. But when a player reaches the veteran status he is well aware of the nature of the business of not always being able to control one's destiny. Being in a business of frequent player relocation is an inescapable part of the business. If you are a FBI agent you don't dictate what field office you are assigned to. If you are a soldier you go to wherever you are sent. It's simply the nature of the business. Good organizations make wise decisions on getting players who are suited for their team and their location. So I'm not overly concerned about who the organization brings in because they have a sense who fits or doesn't. 

[LGR4GM]

Reilly Smith is from Ontario so it wouldn't be all awful for him to play in Buffalo. 

[kas23]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Reilly Smith is from Ontario so it wouldn't be all awful for him to play in Buffalo. 

Plus, it’s all but guaranteed he’s flipped at the trade deadline. He’s get to play close to home for 75% of the season. 

[LabattBlue]

If, and that’s a big IF, Vegas is willing to part with Krebs, I wouldn’t mess around too much if I were KA.  I’d settle for Krebs, Tuch(missing at least 1/2 of 21-22 season), Smith(cap dump/rental) and a 2nd round pick and call it a day. 

[tom webster]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

I legitimately don’t believe there’s a single veteran in the NHL who has other options who would want to be here.

I’m sorry, you are again showing your youth. I have learned through the years that everyone is motivated by different things and to make such a blanket statement reveals a youthful bias.  

[steveoath]

I'm hoping that Tuch being injured helps balance out the injury to Jack somewhat and we can scoop him up. I would like to see:

Krebs, Tuch, Smith, and take your pick from - Brisson, Elvenes, Morozov, Korczak.

[dudacek]

Vegas 1st = St.Louis 1st

Elvenes = 2nd

Krebs > Thompson

Smith > Berglund, Sobotka

If anyone is keeping score

Edited August 8, 2021 by dudacek