Shopping Jack Eichel: Vegas

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I cannot fathom thinking so highly of and getting so excited about the idea of having first round picks. Almost every first round pick I've ever seen the Sabres make was absent from making real impact on this team for years, if not forever. Persson,  Myers, Kassian, Pysyk, Armia, Grigs, Girgs, Risto, Reinhart, Eichel, Nylander, Mitts, Dahlin, Cozens, Quinn. Three of those guys have scored more than like 30 points for this team, and we are about to trade two of those 3 after failing with them. Yay, we get six more of this spread over many years such that it'll be another 7 years before we verify that most of them failed! Exciting!!!

Exciting for Kevy Adams, because he gets to keep the GM job for a few years and tout the development of the team, even if the results aren’t there.

Unless they are top-5 picks, despite being a needed part of team building, they aren’t worth getting really excited over in the short term.

[Thorner]

21 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I cannot fathom thinking so highly of and getting so excited about the idea of having first round picks. Almost every first round pick I've ever seen the Sabres make was absent from making real impact on this team for years, if not forever. Persson,  Myers, Kassian, Pysyk, Armia, Grigs, Girgs, Risto, Reinhart, Eichel, Nylander, Mitts, Dahlin, Cozens, Quinn. Three of those guys have scored more than like 30 points for this team, and we are about to trade two of those 3 after failing with them. Yay, we get six more of this spread over many years such that it'll be another 7 years before we verify that most of them failed! Exciting!!!

You hit on it right at the end w/the bold: before we verify. 

The Schrodinger's Cat method of fandom is not one to sneeze at in terms of it's popularity - as a team full of futures and prospects and endless pieces of which no actual current expectation for team performance is derived, people can be happy "not looking in the box", to see if we are actually good, content enough by the thought that maybe, one day, we will be. That we are on that course. After all, we don't need to expect anything this year, we don't need to look too closely at what's actually happening, the results - things could work out for us, it shouldn't be right now, that would require "mortgaging the future". 

Pretend like things are going to work out, set your barometer for measurement sometime in the distant future, and when that time comes, if winning hasn't been achieved through ineptitude? Just blow it all up again and sell the future 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Thorny

[Hoss]

The more I look at Vegas the more I like what they have to offer. Especially Alex Tuch.

He's not a center, sure, but he's a 25-year-old BIG RW who has played and performed in a lot of big games. He put up 20-32-52 in 74 games at 22 years old and this year at 24 he put up 18-15-33 in a 55 game season (27-22-49 in 82 games). You also have him locked up for $4.75M over the next five seasons and a semi-local factor in him being from Syracuse if you care about such things. You can't beat that deal for what you're getting out of this kid.

Peyton Krebs is the prospect everyone likes and others are definitely higher on him than I am but he's the center prospect you want to get in a deal like this. Then if you can continue to build on those two knowing their firsts have very little value in a deal you're really starting to get a good package going.

Tuch, Krebs, Hague and a 1st (probably too rich for Vegas but shoot your shot) is a nice looking package. You have to take on another contract to make it work and Reilly Smith is the popular pick there. So let's add him and we'll add a mid-round pick and one of our lefty dmen (Bryson?) going to Vegas.

Gives a lineup something like:

Skinner - Reinhart - Tuch

Krebs - Mittelstadt - Smith

Bjork - Cozens - Olofsson

Asplund - Girgensons - Okposo

Dahlin - Joker

McCabe - Borgen

Samuelsson - Hague

FIND GOALIE

 

This is before other moves and I didn't "add" anyone here with a Risto deal but if you can add an NHL forward in his deal you're cooking something if you can convince Samson to stay and be a part of the solution.

[rakish]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

 

Skinner - Reinhart - Tuch

Krebs - Mittelstadt - Smith

Bjork - Cozens - Olofsson

Asplund - Girgensons - Okposo

Dahlin - Joker

McCabe - Borgen

Samuelsson - Hague

FIND GOALIE

 

You can't send send Tuch to Rochester, or Dahlin...wait a minute, nevermind

[nfreeman]

If Vegas is the trade partner and we need to take back salary, which will almost certainly be the case, I'd like it to be MAF.  He is exactly what the Sabres need.

[Digger]

On 6/27/2021 at 12:19 PM, Randall Flagg said:

I cannot fathom thinking so highly of and getting so excited about the idea of having first round picks. Almost every first round pick I've ever seen the Sabres make was absent from making real impact on this team for years, if not forever. Persson,  Myers, Kassian, Pysyk, Armia, Grigs, Girgs, Risto, Reinhart, Eichel, Nylander, Mitts, Dahlin, Cozens, Quinn. Three of those guys have scored more than like 30 points for this team, and we are about to trade two of those 3 after failing with them. Yay, we get six more of this spread over many years such that it'll be another 7 years before we verify that most of them failed! Exciting!!!

This hits the nail on the head for me.  As fans we get excited every year for the draft and we should but that excitement wears off when training camp rolls around and we see our new draft prospects are not ready to make the team this year or not ready to make an impact right away.  Then teams and fans want to protect their prospects and say that they are untouchable which seems illogical when trading for a player like Eichel (proven 1st line star center that rarely becomes available via trade).  Teams should be asking will their untouchable prospect develop into a player as good as Eichel and do they want to wait for that to happen while their older star players get older (example Byfield while Kopitar and Doughty wait for the team to get better).  Yes I know money and health play a role but if health was that bad everyone would be out. 

Make the best trades available for blue chip prospects that can play this year for the team, NHL players under contract for the next few years (that fill a need), and then draft picks that can play in 1-2 years.   I'd rather have the blue chip prospect as the priority rather than saying we need 4 or 5 pieces.

 

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Hoss said:

The more I look at Vegas the more I like what they have to offer. Especially Alex Tuch.

He's not a center, sure, but he's a 25-year-old BIG RW who has played and performed in a lot of big games. He put up 20-32-52 in 74 games at 22 years old and this year at 24 he put up 18-15-33 in a 55 game season (27-22-49 in 82 games). You also have him locked up for $4.75M over the next five seasons and a semi-local factor in him being from Syracuse if you care about such things. You can't beat that deal for what you're getting out of this kid.

Peyton Krebs is the prospect everyone likes and others are definitely higher on him than I am but he's the center prospect you want to get in a deal like this. Then if you can continue to build on those two knowing their firsts have very little value in a deal you're really starting to get a good package going.

Tuch, Krebs, Hague and a 1st (probably too rich for Vegas but shoot your shot) is a nice looking package. You have to take on another contract to make it work and Reilly Smith is the popular pick there. So let's add him and we'll add a mid-round pick and one of our lefty dmen (Bryson?) going to Vegas.

Gives a lineup something like:

Skinner - Reinhart - Tuch

Krebs - Mittelstadt - Smith

Bjork - Cozens - Olofsson

Asplund - Girgensons - Okposo

Dahlin - Joker

McCabe - Borgen

Samuelsson - Hague

FIND GOALIE

 

This is before other moves and I didn't "add" anyone here with a Risto deal but if you can add an NHL forward in his deal you're cooking something if you can convince Samson to stay and be a part of the solution.

Don't mind this, it's so dependent on Reinhart staying, though. And that left side of the D isn't ok as that's counting on McCabe for top 4 without a viable replacement behind him. But of course, you said this is before other moves. If we end up having to deal Sam, we need a now centre back in that deal, or the Risto trade. 

I quite like Krebs and you are right that getting that big C prospect back in an Eichel deal is mandatory (my word, I guess but seems you are on the same wavelength)

Edited July 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Hoss]

5 hours ago, nfreeman said:

If Vegas is the trade partner and we need to take back salary, which will almost certainly be the case, I'd like it to be MAF.  He is exactly what the Sabres need.

I would also like this but he has a NTC and I don’t believe he’d have any interest in coming here. I also believe, despite assumptions to the contrary, that he has real value in a trade coming off a season where he was voted the literal best goalie in the league.

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Don't mind this, it's so dependent on Reinhart staying, though. And that left side of the D isn't ok as that's counting on McCabe for top 4 without a viable replacement behind him. But of course, you said this is before other moves. If we end up having to deal Sam, we need a now centre back in that deal, or the Risto trade. 

I quite like Krebs and you are right that getting that big C prospect back in an Eichel deal is mandatory (my word, I guess but seems you are on the same wavelength)

The viable replacement behind McCabe is Owen Power. He’s just in Michigan. This lineup isn’t final it’s just what it would be in the immediate aftermath of that deal.

[LGR4GM]

17 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I would also like this but he has a NTC and I don’t believe he’d have any interest in coming here. I also believe, despite assumptions to the contrary, that he has real value in a trade coming off a season where he was voted the literal best goalie in the league.

The viable replacement behind McCabe is Owen Power. He’s just in Michigan. This lineup isn’t final it’s just what it would be in the immediate aftermath of that deal.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, Hoss said:

I would also like this but he has a NTC and I don’t believe he’d have any interest in coming here. I also believe, despite assumptions to the contrary, that he has real value in a trade coming off a season where he was voted the literal best goalie in the league.

The viable replacement behind McCabe is Owen Power. He’s just in Michigan. This lineup isn’t final it’s just what it would be in the immediate aftermath of that deal.

Right, I meant for next season though 

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Right, I meant for next season though 

It’s not really worth diving into since that wasn’t a final list by any means but I’ll note that the group posted had four LHD on it so you can replace McCabe with either a lefty or a righty by moving things around if he’s not ready/gets hurt again.

[I-90 W]

Bumping this due to Vegas trading MAF. Possible cap space dump for a big move? 

[Thorner]

This feels likely (ha, have said that before). I'd bet he's Vegas bound now unless someone beats their offer. Ie Minnesota adds Boldy to Rossi

[Buffalonill]

No no no no no this would be so bad 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, I-90 W said:

Bumping this due to Vegas trading MAF. Possible cap space dump for a big move? 

They could have a UFA target in mind as well and that's why they dumped that 7 million. Hard to say. 

45 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Vegas has: 

Peyton Krebs, 5'11" 190lb C - 43 points in 24 WHL games and 5 points in 5 AHL games

Pavel Dorofeyev, 6'1" 178lb LW - 13 points in 24 AHL games

Brendan Brisson, 6' 185lb C - 21 points in 24 NCAA games

Zach Dean, 6' 176lb C - 20 points in 23 QMJHL games

Ivan Morozon, 6'1" 196lb C - 31 points in 55 KHL games

updated, now with Defenders! 

Kaeden Korczak, 6'4" 192lb RHD - 8 points in 15 WHL games and 2 points in 11 AHL games

Daniil Chayka, 6'3" 185lb LHD - 4 points in 5 MHL games and 2 points in 11 KHL games

 

Adding this for those wondering what Vegas has

[Buffalonill]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They could have a UFA target in mind as well and that's why they dumped that 7 million. Hard to say. 

Adding this for those wondering what Vegas has

Great all they have Krebs that's it 

And we get 2 second round picks thats not good 

[I-90 W]

The more I think about it, they probably are targeting a FA. They just don’t have the pieces for a Jack trade. 

[LGR4GM]

What I find interesting is that MAF hasn't been informed by the team yet and the Knights who usually post trades quickly have yet to comment from their social media. 

[Thorner]

Just now, I-90 W said:

The more I think about it, they probably are targeting a FA. They just don’t have the pieces for a Jack trade. 

They do have the pieces. Especially if Adams is willing to take back a good now player like Tuch. 

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

What I find interesting is that MAF hasn't been informed by the team yet and the Knights who usually post trades quickly have yet to comment from their social media. 

It's only quarter to 10 there, social media person is probably just getting their hangover iced coffee from Starbucks.

[I-90 W]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

They do have the pieces. Especially if Adams is willing to take back a good now player like Tuch. 

Syracuse guy too, he probably would want to be here long term.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, I-90 W said:

Syracuse guy too, he probably would want to be here long term.

He's already signed for another 5 years. Basically with him included in a deal, Eichel costs Vegas 5.25mil for the next 5 years. 

[I-90 W]

Would say Krebs, Tuch and a 2022 1st be enough though? How would everyone feel about this?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

Would say Krebs, Tuch and a 2022 1st be enough though? How would everyone feel about this?

no even close. 

Actually close-ish but I need another thing added to that. That 2022 1st is basically a 2nd round pick in all likelihood. I would rather have 2 of their prospects than the 2022 first. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Thorner]

Krebs would be on track to play in the NHL this coming season, correct?