Sabres Associate GM Jason Karmanos Interview on the Sports Bar with Danger and Battaglia on Friday

[Doohicksie]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Wasn't that why he was fired in Pittsburgh for advocating rebuild time over one last run with Malkin and Crosby? I might have that wrong, but I thought that was the crux of it and I thus thought he was probably transferring the same type of rebuild plan to his hiring here. So trade Eichel/Reinhart instead of Crosby/Malkin but otherwise the same basic plan.  maybe I have it wrong. 

Even if you have it right, it doesn't mean that, given the state of the Sabres right now, he wouldn't be inclined to build with EichReinoRisto.  They're not in decline, they're in their prime, which might drive Karmanos in a different direction with the Sabres than he wanted to take with the Pens.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 My Fear is if the Sabres do not let Him have surgery and He is still on the roster next season, and shuts Himself down after 10-15 games while allowing His NMC to kick in and asks for a trade. 

Well if the Sabres are stupid enough to not let him have the surgery AND not trade him then they are officially the dumbest franchise in pro sports and they deserve what happens. 

Oh, and we should all find a new team.

I can't imagine them doing that. The smartest thing imo is trade him and let the next team decide on surgery vs. rehab. No longer our problem. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Even if you have it right, it doesn't mean that, given the state of the Sabres right now, he wouldn't be inclined to build with EichReinoRisto.  They're not in decline, they're in their prime, which might drive Karmanos in a different direction with the Sabres than he wanted to take with the Pens.

You're right, they are in their prime, so it's not the same in that regard but they are the core and they do have the years of losing stink stuck on them and their mindsets. Hard to set a new direction and keep them. 

[Doohicksie]

Maybe so.  Maybe not.

[gilbert11]

15 hours ago, darksabre said:

Things are really reading to me that it's not Eichel who wants to be traded, it's that the Sabres FO has decided to move on from him. I really hope it's not true, but the language being used by both Adams and Karmanos sure seems to be hinting at it.

This is similar to the O’Reilly situation.  To me, when Ryan, as captain, says he’s not having fun playing hockey, he had to go.  Unfortunately they got garbage in return for him.  
 

Eichel does not seem to be a good leader, so him being captain is sketchy.  Keeping him but making someone else the captain wouldn’t work.  He expressed disappointment in losing at the end of last season, which can be good but now comes off as a whiner that doesn’t want to be in Buffalo any longer.  If Adams is going to trade him, he just needs to hold out for the best possible package.  They just can’t get garbage back for him.  If they don’t feel offers are good enough, don’t trade him then.  Some team will likely up the ante eventually.  
 

Also, unless the best offer by far comes from an eastern team, they need to trade him to the west.

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, gilbert11 said:

This is similar to the O’Reilly situation.  To me, when Ryan, as captain, says he’s not having fun playing hockey, he had to go.  Unfortunately they got garbage in return for him.  
 

Eichel does not seem to be a good leader, so him being captain is sketchy.  Keeping him but making someone else the captain wouldn’t work.  He expressed disappointment in losing at the end of last season, which can be good but now comes off as a whiner that doesn’t want to be in Buffalo any longer.  If Adams is going to trade him, he just needs to hold out for the best possible package.  They just can’t get garbage back for him.  If they don’t feel offers are good enough, don’t trade him then.  Some team will likely up the ante eventually.  
 

Also, unless the best offer by far comes from an eastern team, they need to trade him to the west.

To the bolded, respectfully disagree completely.  O'Reilly was venting at the end of an embarrassingly bad season.  Don't care that he did.

He's in the discussion for best 2 way C's in the league & the Sabres would be far ahead of where they are if he was still on the roster.  Not to mention any of the return on that trade, but odds are they don't end up bringing in Skinner if they still have O'Reilly.  Which also puts the Sabres in a better situation today.

[Thorner]

This is the state of Sabres twitter, if anyone is interested

 

"Nothing they can do for 2 years minimum." There's just nothing we can do.

- - - 

The Pegula's did know something the fans didn't - the knew that they've conditioned the fans to think long-scale rebuilds are the only answer. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

This is the state of Sabres twitter, if anyone is interested

 

"Nothing they can do for 2 years minimum." There's just nothing we can do.

- - - 

The Pegula's did know something the fans didn't - the knew that they've conditioned the fans to think long-scale rebuilds are the only answer. 

Not sure if it's conditioning, or people wanting to be able to say THEY predicted what was going to happen.  Either way, this summer is setting up to stink on the Sabres front.

[Brawndo]

19 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Fair enough, but would you rather have that scoundrel Melnynk?  What a dooshnozzle that guy is.

Who defies stay near home orders by renting a mega yaght (I can't spell worth *****, but I'm rolling here ...) out of your 'second home' in Barbados and then complains and sews everybody in sight 'cus you and the misses gets sea sick.  Spare me that stuff ...

Melnyk is a despicable human being. 
 

That being said His Hockey Team was one goal away from the Stanley Cup Final in 2017 In the four years since they traded Duchenne, Mark Stone and Erik Karlsson for picks and prospects and managed to rebuild a team that will be in playoff contention in the next year or two. 
 

The Karlsson Trade netted them Stutzle and Josh Norris alone.  Getting Stutzle was a lot of luck, but that’s some good GMing by Pierre Dorian.

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Not sure if it's conditioning, or people wanting to be able to say THEY predicted what was going to happen.  Either way, this summer is setting up to stink on the Sabres front.

I saw those posts yesterday and just shook my head.

We've seen so many teams go from the basement to the playoffs with one good off-season put together by a savvy GM.

Whether or not Adamanos is up to the task remains to be seen, but there's just no reason to think they can't or shouldn't try to make the playoffs next year.

You can absolutely build a competitive team in one off-season.

It just requires that you not be completely incompetent.

[SwampD]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

I saw those posts yesterday and just shook my head.

We've seen so many teams go from the basement to the playoffs with one good off-season put together by a savvy GM.

Whether or not Adamanos is up to the task remains to be seen, but there's just no reason to think they can't or shouldn't try to make the playoffs next year.

You can absolutely build a competitive team in one off-season.

It just requires that you not be completely incompetent.

We’ve seen teams do it during a season.

[Thwomp!]

22 hours ago, darksabre said:

I'm curious if perhaps there was a deal on the table for him at some point in the last 12 months and it was close enough to done that his agent knew and therefore Jack knew. That's the way I'm reading his language at the moment: that they've actually already tried to trade him and he knows they're still looking at it. 

A guy at my local bar told me Columbus had a deal in place right before Eichel got injured.  Could make sense.  They have a ton of cap space and goalies to spare.

[Curt]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

This is the state of Sabres twitter, if anyone is interested

 

"Nothing they can do for 2 years minimum." There's just nothing we can do.

- - - 

The Pegula's did know something the fans didn't - the knew that they've conditioned the fans to think long-scale rebuilds are the only answer. 

This is a good post.  While I can accept that trading Eichel, Reinhart and Risto may be something that this team needs to do.  I can not accept that this team needs to be bottom 5 for a couple years.

[Marvin]

I don't accept that we can't compete for a playoff spot next year.  Ice 4 lines of real players (even 12 genuinely 3rd/4th liners), combine that with solid team defence, and then add average goaltending and you can escape the basement.  Create a couple of 2-way lines of veterans who are higher-end middle-6 players to insulate the youth after that and you can threaten the playoffs.

Start with Skinner-Eichel-Cozens, Ruotsalainen-Reinhart-Olofsson, Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson, Bjork-Girgensons-Okposo, Eakin.  On defence, you have Dahlin-Bryson, Borgen-Jokiharu, Samuelsson-Ristolainen, McCabe-Miller.  Assume the Sabres protect Skinner (NMC), Eichel, Reinhart, Olofsson, Asplund, Mittlestadt, Okposo (mNTC), Dahlin, Borgen and Jokiharu.  Let us assume we lose Thompson or Miller, ad arguendum.

The Sabres move out Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen.  We need to add a couple of veteran defencmen, at least 2 top 6 forwards (preferably 4), and 2 goaltenders.

What if we get two each of #2 centres (probably 1 each in from Eichel and Reinhart), a couple of younger potential top-6 prospects, take on a couple of older stay-at-home defencemen with limited term as "cap dumps", and sign a couple of decent goaltenders.  That seems eminently feasible with trades and FA.

"No one will sign in Buffalo unless they stink" cuts no ice with me.  If you make the right kinds of trades for largely the right kinds of players, there is no reason for some FAs to like what we are doing.  They key is to find the "right kinds of player."  GMKA should look in the mirror and ask, "is this guy a more talented version of myself, Gaustad, Mair, and others like us?"  If that answer is "yes", then he is acceptable as part of the return.

[Thorner]

16 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I don't accept that we can't compete for a playoff spot next year.  Ice 4 lines of real players (even 12 genuinely 3rd/4th liners), combine that with solid team defence, and then add average goaltending and you can escape the basement.  Create a couple of 2-way lines of veterans who are higher-end middle-6 players to insulate the youth after that and you can threaten the playoffs.

Start with Skinner-Eichel-Cozens, Ruotsalainen-Reinhart-Olofsson, Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson, Bjork-Girgensons-Okposo, Eakin.  On defence, you have Dahlin-Bryson, Borgen-Jokiharu, Samuelsson-Ristolainen, McCabe-Miller.  Assume the Sabres protect Skinner (NMC), Eichel, Reinhart, Olofsson, Asplund, Mittlestadt, Okposo (mNTC), Dahlin, Borgen and Jokiharu.  Let us assume we lose Thompson or Miller, ad arguendum.

The Sabres move out Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen.  We need to add a couple of veteran defencmen, at least 2 top 6 forwards (preferably 4), and 2 goaltenders.

What if we get two each of #2 centres (probably 1 each in from Eichel and Reinhart), a couple of younger potential top-6 prospects, take on a couple of older stay-at-home defencemen with limited term as "cap dumps", and sign a couple of decent goaltenders.  That seems eminently feasible with trades and FA.

"No one will sign in Buffalo unless they stink" cuts no ice with me.  If you make the right kinds of trades for largely the right kinds of players, there is no reason for some FAs to like what we are doing.  They key is to find the "right kinds of player."  GMKA should look in the mirror and ask, "is this guy a more talented version of myself, Gaustad, Mair, and others like us?"  If that answer is "yes", then he is acceptable as part of the return.

I'd honestly really like to see Jack Eichel with the emerging younger players. And an emerging Dahlin. It's a shame that we are potentially so close to seeing it, and may willingly pass up that opportunity.

Didn't get to see ROR with MVP level Jack Eichel. Cut the cord a little too quick. 

About to not get to see MVP Eichel with a legit 1st pairing Dahlin. Too quick?

[thewookie1]

The Pegulas are well-intentioned inept hockey owners. Typically involving some amount of overconfidence in their own skills and lack of an ability to read the crowd. But at their core, they do want the Sabres to succeed for both money, prestige and the city itself.

Melnyk is honestly a terrible individual whom happens to have money and uses it at every chance he gets to punch down and around. He doesn't care if the Senators win per say as he does if they are profitable.  If someone convinced him that injecting his players with a special serum could help cut down on food costs, he would immediately ask for free samples.

[Stoner]

7 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

The Pegulas are well-intentioned inept hockey owners. Typically involving some amount of overconfidence in their own skills and lack of an ability to read the crowd. But at their core, they do want the Sabres to succeed for both money, prestige and the city itself.

Melnyk is honestly a terrible individual whom happens to have money and uses it at every chance he gets to punch down and around. He doesn't care if the Senators win per say as he does if they are profitable.  If someone convinced him that injecting his players with a special serum could help cut down on food costs, he would immediately ask for free samples.

I have assumed and will continue to do so that they are well-intentioned. But how long do they get the benefit of the doubt? Dad's well-intentioned — he works but he just can't resist losing his paycheck at the casino. The two of them should know by now they suck. Changes in how they run the team must be made. If the big change has already been made and Terry told Kevyn down in Florida that he's butting out, awesome. I'd like to hear someone acknowledge that it happened. POHO would be also awesome because there's so little experience in the current front office. But if it's going to be Kevyn, Jason and new blood being brought in, that's good, too. No way, no how should Kevyn have to take three phone calls a day from Terry. It's a fact. Shove your link where the sun don't shine.

Edited May 17, 2021 by PASabreFan
extra goodliness added

[thewookie1]

54 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I have assumed and will continue to do so that they are well-intentioned. But how long do they get the benefit of the doubt? Dad's well-intentioned — he works but he just can't resist losing his paycheck at the casino. The two of them should know by now they suck. Changes in how they run the team must be made. If the big change has already been made and Terry told Kevyn down in Florida that he's butting out, awesome. I'd like to hear someone acknowledge that it happened. POHO would be also awesome because there's so little experience in the current front office. But if it's going to be Kevyn, Jason and new blood being brought in, that's good, too. No way, no how should Kevyn have to take three phone calls a day from Terry. It's a fact. Shove your link where the sun don't shine.

To be honest I would never expect any public admittance to guilt. We’ll likely just see a drastic change after it has occurred and we will all draw conclusions from that.

That being said, I doubt they’ll ever fess up to running the team badly as it is rarely something done from the negative angle in any situation. One basks in the light of success and hides or downplays the darkness of defeat. 

[Marvin]

51 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I have assumed and will continue to do so that they are well-intentioned. But how long do they get the benefit of the doubt? Dad's well-intentioned — he works but he just can't resist losing his paycheck at the casino. The two of them should know by now they suck. Changes in how they run the team must be made. If the big change has already been made and Terry told Kevyn down in Florida that he's butting out, awesome. I'd like to hear someone acknowledge that it happened. POHO would be also awesome because there's so little experience in the current front office. But if it's going to be Kevyn, Jason and new blood being brought in, that's good, too. No way, no how should Kevyn have to take three phone calls a day from Terry. It's a fact. Shove your link where the sun don't shine.

I have seen NOTHING aside from the chunder spewed on this board which indicates that the Pegulas are anything other than well-intentioned ****-ups.  (IMHO, what they have spent money on downtown is more important than the trivialities of the Sabres, so I view them more favourably than most.)  There is no evidence of malice with respect to the Sabres whatsoever which cannot be explained by abject incompetence.  I just think that his model for always hiring people who are green and grow into the job -- which is what he did to become a billionaire, so what the **** do I know -- is an idiotic way to run a hockey team.  And he will keep doing it until he gets to the McBeane of the hockey side.

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I have seen NOTHING aside from the chunder spewed on this board which indicates that the Pegulas are anything other than well-intentioned ****-ups.  (IMHO, what they have spent money on downtown is more important than the trivialities of the Sabres, so I view them more favourably than most.)  There is no evidence of malice with respect to the Sabres whatsoever which cannot be explained by abject incompetence.  I just think that his model for always hiring people who are green and grow into the job -- which is what he did to become a billionaire, so what the **** do I know -- is an idiotic way to run a hockey team.  And he will keep doing it until he gets to the McBeane of the hockey side.

McAdams and Granbeano???

[Doohicksie]

On 5/17/2021 at 11:24 AM, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I don't accept that we can't compete for a playoff spot next year. 

If Granato is the coach we won't be competing for a playoff spot.  We will be improving individually and as a team.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler:  If he's successful, we will be competing for a playoff spot.