Andrew Amerk Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 3 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said: Even further than that, why isn’t he just getting the surgery done the Sabres want? They seem to have the backing of the medical community. Doesn’t he want to get better? If I understand correctly, the surgery the Sabres want isnt normal for someone who is 24, and would require multiple other surgeries as he gets older. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said: If I understand correctly, the surgery the Sabres want isnt normal for someone who is 24, and would require multiple other surgeries as he gets older. That is not a given. Also ADR is fairly new in pro athletes. There's no real track record if it works long term or can take a hit.
darksabre Posted September 29, 2021 Author Report Posted September 29, 2021 11 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said: If I understand correctly, the surgery the Sabres want isnt normal for someone who is 24, and would require multiple other surgeries as he gets older. The sticking point is not an unreasonable one, in my opinion anyway. I think Jack believes the ADR is the surgery that is the best for him. Even if it would have been the quickest recovery, I don't think that was the only factor. I think he's convinced that it's the one that offers him the best quality of life. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's just that the team is not necessarily obligated to care about Jack's long term health. They only care about his viability as a hockey player. It is what it is. 1
dudacek Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, darksabre said: The sticking point is not an unreasonable one, in my opinion anyway. I think Jack believes the ADR is the surgery that is the best for him. Even if it would have been the quickest recovery, I don't think that was the only factor. I think he's convinced that it's the one that offers him the best quality of life. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's just that the team is not necessarily obligated to care about Jack's long term health. They only care about his viability as a hockey player. It is what it is. The team would almost certainly respond that playing NHL hockey with an artificial disc is a bigger risk to his long-term health than fusion would be. That said, I am surprised at how few on here seem perturbed by the concept of corporate business interests taking precedence over personal health interests, no matter their feelings on the surgery options themselves, or how rich Jack might be. It’s a cultural thing maybe? Edited September 29, 2021 by dudacek
bob_sauve28 Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: The team would almost certainly respond that playing NHL hockey with an artificial disc is a bigger risk to his long-term health than fusion would be. That said, I am surprised at how few on here seem perturbed by the concept of corporate business interests taking precedence over personal health interests, no matter their feelings on the surgery options themselves, or how rich Jack might be. It’s a cultural thing maybe? Is it corporate interest or expert advice? Adams is standing behind the advice he is getting from the doctors while Jack seems to be going for a largely untested procedure.
Doohicksie Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: I am surprised at how few on here seem perturbed by the concept of corporate business interests taking precedence over personal health interests, no matter their feelings on the surgery options themselves, or how rich Jack might be. It's not a business interest over personal interest issue to me. It's strictly business. Jack is free to do whatever he wants, but he signed a business contract that says if he wants to earn tens of millions of dollars, he has to agree to the team's medical direction. If he doesn't want to get paid, he's more than free to do whatever he wants. It's Jack who's putting business interests over his own personal health interests. 3
darksabre Posted September 29, 2021 Author Report Posted September 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: The team would almost certainly respond that playing NHL hockey with an artificial disc is a bigger risk to his long-term health than fusion would be. That said, I am surprised at how few on here seem perturbed by the concept of corporate business interests taking precedence over personal health interests, no matter their feelings on the surgery options themselves, or how rich Jack might be. It’s a cultural thing maybe? I see Jack's side of it, for sure. I understand fully why he feels like he should be able to get the surgery he wants. But the tradeoff for big sports money tends to be handing over control of your body to the machinery of the league. That's why the NHLPA and the league negotiate the CBA: to try to balance the players interests vs the leagues interests. It's not always perfect though. This is one of those times. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 2 hours ago, dudacek said: The team would almost certainly respond that playing NHL hockey with an artificial disc is a bigger risk to his long-term health than fusion would be. That said, I am surprised at how few on here seem perturbed by the concept of corporate business interests taking precedence over personal health interests, no matter their feelings on the surgery options themselves, or how rich Jack might be. It’s a cultural thing maybe? You're making a leap that Jack desire for ADR is in his best interest. He's been sold on a procedure that probably works great on regular folks but is unproven among professional hockey players who regularly get shoved head-first into the boards. ADR isn't a tonsillectomy or LASIK.
darksabre Posted September 29, 2021 Author Report Posted September 29, 2021 7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: You're making a leap that Jack desire for ADR is in his best interest. He's been sold on a procedure that probably works great on regular folks but is unproven among professional hockey players who regularly get shoved head-first into the boards. ADR isn't a tonsillectomy or LASIK. I mean, ultimately Jack should be allowed to assume the risks of getting the ADR if he wants to. The problem is that they have to figure out how to actually put that risk on Jack instead of on the team.
bob_sauve28 Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 12 minutes ago, darksabre said: I mean, ultimately Jack should be allowed to assume the risks of getting the ADR if he wants to. The problem is that they have to figure out how to actually put that risk on Jack instead of on the team. I'd love to hear from Jack on why he wants one surgery over the other.
darksabre Posted September 29, 2021 Author Report Posted September 29, 2021 8 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said: I'd love to hear from Jack on why he wants one surgery over the other. I think we can safely infer. Some here have posted that the fusion might require additional surgeries since he's so young, whereas if the disc replacement is successful it could last a lot longer. I could see that being a real good reason to have the cost/benefit analysis come down in favor of the ADR in Jack's mind. He's well within his rights to believe that a certain course of treatment, as outlined by the medical professionals whose advice he has sought, is the correct one for him, without suffering much criticism over it. It just doesn't matter as long as the pro sports team that he is contracted to play for gets to override him.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 48 minutes ago, darksabre said: I mean, ultimately Jack should be allowed to assume the risks of getting the ADR if he wants to. The problem is that they have to figure out how to actually put that risk on Jack instead of on the team. Exactly! Nothing is simple when millions of dollars are involved. 1
bob_sauve28 Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Exactly! Nothing is simple when millions of dollars are involved. And the future course of an NHL franchise
Taro T Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, darksabre said: I mean, ultimately Jack should be allowed to assume the risks of getting the ADR if he wants to. The problem is that they have to figure out how to actually put that risk on Jack instead of on the team. Eichel really needs someone he trusts to ACCURATELY sum of the pros and cons of each option & what the likely, best, & worst courses of outcomes are for him to allow HIM to accurately assess what makes the most sense. It may be that what he wants is the best path forward, but it is also very possible that people who have a vested interest in the path forward have gotten him convinced that the downside is much less likely than it really is. He's not just a world class athlete, he's elite. Not sure that that status at only 24 gives him the best perspective to be able to choose the best path forward, because there is so much money on the line for not just himself but those advising him. Who'd've thunk just 20 or so months ago that there'd be a reason besides the hair to not be willing to trade places with the guy. 😉 Edited September 29, 2021 by Taro T
PromoTheRobot Posted September 29, 2021 Report Posted September 29, 2021 5 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said: And the future course of an NHL franchise I don't think this matters as much as potential future liability.
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