Jack Eichel's Gambit

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Ogre said:

The issues with adjacent disc disease are mostly limited to individuals with a history of degenerative disease (those artificial discs don’t absorb shock like a natural disc), which I am assuming Jack doesn’t have at that age. 
I couldn’t imagine a surgeon performing a disc replacement on someone who could potentially be boarded in the near future.🤷

Whether or not he gets traded, I hope that at some point Jack realizes that the team docs were protecting him from himself.

[darksabre]

3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Whether or not he gets traded, I hope that at some point Jack realizes that the team docs were protecting him from himself.

I wouldn't even put that on the Sabres docs so much as the docs of every other team in the league. If none of these other teams would let him get the surgery he wants then they've basically justified the Sabres' approach. 

[Doohicksie]

10 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I wouldn't even put that on the Sabres docs so much as the docs of every other team in the league. If none of these other teams would let him get the surgery he wants then they've basically justified the Sabres' approach. 

Yeah... that's another point I've made:  Even if he gets traded, will any other team let him have that surgery?

[I-90 W]

My prediction is that Jack will be traded, will never have the surgery, and will be playing for his new team at the start of the season and will say he is fine and feeling great. Time will tell if I’m right.

[ExWNYer]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

Whether or not he gets traded, I hope that at some point Jack realizes that the team docs were protecting him from himself.

"Youth is wasted on the young." - George Bernard Shaw

[Doohicksie]

Tru dat.

[Thorner]

On 7/26/2021 at 9:44 PM, darksabre said:

I wouldn't even put that on the Sabres docs so much as the docs of every other team in the league. If none of these other teams would let him get the surgery he wants then they've basically justified the Sabres' approach. 

It's been mentioned in rumors there are teams willing to allow him the surgery, just depends if you can trust those or not

[Thorner]

On 7/8/2021 at 8:24 AM, Brawndo said:

Michael Russo of the Athletic mentioned that the Wild are one of the teams Ok with Him having surgery 

 

[Pimlach]

On 5/12/2021 at 3:22 PM, darksabre said:

I know we already have multiple threads going about Jack being traded, etc, but I have a specific thought that I want to explore as it relates to strategy.

The Eichel presser, followed several days later by the Adams presser, seems to paint the picture that these are two parties at odds with each other.

Eichel blasts the team for not letting him pursue the treatment he wants. He says that there's a disconnect. The team, rightfully having no benefit of the doubt, is painted as inept. Not hard to do.

Adams comes to the stand today and essentially quashes Eichel's line of argument. There is no disconnect. They know exactly what the situation is with Jack's injury. He's not surprised, he's not mad. 

Which makes me go "hmmm".

Regardless of the goal of the Eichel presser, it's safe to assume it was deliberate and calculated. And he and his team surely must have been anticipating the rebuttal from Adams after several days of outrage. They couldn't possibly have been anticipating a different response from Adams, right? No, they knew they were getting this.

So we're all sitting here saying "Well, clearly he's trying to force a trade" by making the team look bad. But has he succeeded at that? I would say he hasn't, and that Adams made a compelling argument in the team's favor. He turned the lense back on Jack. Jack's presser suddenly doesn't pack the punch that it seemed to at the time. Adams responds predictably, and that's the problem.

So Jack, in the war room with his team, is saying "Have I increased my chances of being traded by taking this approach?" I wouldn't be so confident. It relies on a lot of assumptions being true.

It assumes:

-Other teams' doctors wouldn't also reject the medical procedure he wants to have done;

-That the Sabres aren't willing to play hardball in order to avoid being seen as a team that you can just force your way off of;

-That Adams' reputation in the league is weak;

-That the Pegulas' reputation in the league is weak;

-That Eichel's reputation in the league is strong;

-That calling out the organization publicly was necessary to facilitate his movement.

The NHL, we know, is a bit of an old boys club. The NHL has a lot of "unwritten rules". Have Jack and his team committed a sin against the unwritten rules? Would a team look at Jack and say "He might be talented, but we don't need this."? Has Jack strengthened his position, or has he inadvertently put the Sabres back on a more solid footing?

The picture isn't very clear to me. But what I see from Jack is a pretty aggressive move, reckless, desperate even. I'm not sure it's the genius move he and his team might think it is...

Lots of good info.  The Sabres may look bad, but so does Jack.  He has a reputation, but his skills are so high that many teams would still  love to get him.  So far none are willing to pay the price.  The injury risk and the contract are real factors.  
 

I have been speculating that GMs will only make low ball offers.    If Adams cannot get fair value then he should not trade him.  That would put the next move in Jack’s  court.  It will be interesting to see how he handles it.  Jack could have supported his team once Granato was put in, as requested.  He could have requested a trade behind closed doors, without the media circus he created, which only highlighted the injury and made everything complicated.  
 

I question how he is being handled.  

Edited July 28, 2021 by Pimlach

[Radar]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Lots of good info.  The Sabres may look bad, but so does Jack.  He has a reputation, but his skills are so high that many teams would still  love to get him.  So far none are so far willing to pay the price.  The injury risk and the contract are real factors.  
 

I have been speculating that GMs will only make low ball offers.    If Adams cannot get fair value then he should not trade him.  That would put the next move in Jack’s  court.  It will be interesting to see how he handles it.  Jack could have supported his team once Granato was put in as requested.  He could have requested a trade behind closed doors, without the media circus he created, which only highlighted the injury and everything complicated.  
 

I question how he is being handled.  

I question how he's being handled and question more how this franchise has and is being handled.

[Pimlach]

On 7/28/2021 at 2:57 PM, Pimlach said:

Lots of good info.  The Sabres may look bad, but so does Jack.  He has a reputation, but his skills are so high that many teams would still  love to get him.  So far none are willing to pay the price.  The injury risk and the contract are real factors.  
 

I have been speculating that GMs will only make low ball offers.    If he Adams cannot get fair value then he should not trade him.  That would put the next move in Jack’s  court.  It will be interesting to see how he handles it.  Jack could have supported his team once Granato was put in, as requested.  He could have requested a trade behind closed doors, without the media circus he created, which only highlighted the injury and made everything complicated.  
 

I question how he is being handled.  

Ok Jack, you hired a new agent.  A high profile one.  
 

You made the next move.  Perhaps now willing to work together?  Let’s see what happens next.  
 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:10 PM, Radar said:

I question how he's being handled and question more how this franchise has and is being handled.

What say you now?

[Radar]

8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What say you now?

Just what I said. This has been mishandled. His switching agents seems to possibly indicate he agrees. What change? We have to wait and see.

[Eleven]

The change of agent can only be a good thing.  Some change is needed to break the stalemate.

[Pimlach]

30 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What say you now?

I know you are asking someone else but I’ll chime in.  
 

With Jack switching agents it appears that the Sabres, while not looking great to even be in this situation, have held strong and used their leverage (I.e the contract) without panicking and giving in to a low ball offer.   

Jack is now seeing that Fish was not handling this correctly … which was my point.  This did not have to be a public spectacle.  Things can hopefully progress from here.  
 

I think Adams is showing some balls too.  

Edited August 27, 2021 by Pimlach

[kas23]

7 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The change of agent can only be a good thing.  Some change is needed to break the stalemate.

What’s the stalemate though and who is holding all the cards? There’s never been a stalemate between Fish and Adams. They both want(ed) Jack traded, maybe even to the same degree. The stalemate is between the true stakeholders, Adams and his fellow GMs. GMs are unwilling to trade fair value for an injured player and I actually agree with both sides here. I don’t see how changing agents alters this. 

[Digger]

I did find it interesting that Peters and Rivet on WGR Instigators (last week if I recall correctly) had previously talked about Eichel's agent (Fish) and how their previous NHL agents would have handled the situation much differently.  Maybe Eichel got similar advice from other players while skating.

[Digger]

3 minutes ago, kas23 said:

What’s the stalemate though and who is holding all the cards? There’s never been a stalemate between Fish and Adams. They both want(ed) Jack traded, maybe even to the same degree. The stalemate is between the true stakeholders, Adams and his fellow GMs. GMs are unwilling to trade fair value for an injured player and I actually agree with both sides here. I don’t see how changing agents alters this. 

Maybe stalemate is not the right word but they definitely were not both pulling in the same direction.  Adams would make a statement and then the agents would come out and disagree.

If he wants out have his new agent work with Adams in cooperation to get the deal done and completed.

[darksabre]

5 minutes ago, Digger said:

I did find it interesting that Peters and Rivet on WGR Instigators (last week if I recall correctly) had previously talked about Eichel's agent (Fish) and how their previous NHL agents would have handled the situation much differently.  Maybe Eichel got similar advice from other players while skating.

Interesting...

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Digger said:

I did find it interesting that Peters and Rivet on WGR Instigators (last week if I recall correctly) had previously talked about Eichel's agent (Fish) and how their previous NHL agents would have handled the situation much differently.  Maybe Eichel got similar advice from other players while skating.

Fish's statement after Adams spoke was peak "tank the value" garbage and I think ***** parts of the trade market. I think Fish was trying to angle Jack to the Rangers for his buddy Chris. 

[Marvin]

I found King's Gambit, Queen's Gambit, the Sicilian Wing Gambit, From's Gambit, several Marshall Gambits, Evans Gambit, and many other gambits, but no Eichel's Gambit.  What is its ECO code?

[darksabre]

[darksabre]

On 5/12/2021 at 4:04 PM, nfreeman said:

As a related point, I've been kinda wondering whether Jack's primary goal was to force the Sabres to consent to the surgery, not to force a trade -- i.e. maybe he's OK with staying here (although he'd doubtless be fine with a trade to a good team), but no matter what he wants to quit screwing around, have the surgery and get in shape for next season.

 

On 5/12/2021 at 4:42 PM, darksabre said:

I'm glad you said this because it's something I was thinking but couldn't find a way to work into the post. It would be absolutely wild if Jack isn't trying to get traded and this whole thing is ONLY about the surgery. Look at all this chaos. He wants a surgery that no one in the league would recommend and he's bringing hell down on his team over it.

For his reputation's sake he better be trying to force a trade.
 

I was thinking about this exchange specifically today. I believe, now more than ever, that what Jack was trying to do was force the surgery AND the trade, and now, over 4 months later, he has not gotten either.

It seems very possible that this timeline (wait and see on the hernia, fusion surgery in the fall, no Olympics) was what Adams proposed to him way back in May and caused Jack and his team to go nuclear because Jack wanted to be back on the ice (and for a different team) ASAP.

Regardless of how this all eventually shakes out, I don't think this was the result Jack wanted. Which is why he and his team did what they did.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, darksabre said:

 

I was thinking about this exchange specifically today. I believe, now more than ever, that what Jack was trying to do was force the surgery AND the trade, and now, over 4 months later, he has not gotten either.

It seems very possible that this timeline (wait and see on the hernia, fusion surgery in the fall, no Olympics) was what Adams proposed to him way back in May and caused Jack and his team to go nuclear because Jack wanted to be back on the ice (and for a different team) ASAP.

Regardless of how this all eventually shakes out, I don't think this was the result Jack wanted. Which is why he and his team did what they did.

Jack can bet on his doctor and get ADR surgery, and let the chips fall.

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Jack can bet on his doctor and get ADR surgery, and let the chips fall.

There's one very good reason why he wouldn't do this: money.

Jack is stuck. He wants the surgery, but he also wants to get paid.

If he does the ADR, it goes wrong and ends his playing career, and the Sabres void his contract, he's broke and out of a job. 

That's why he wants the Sabres to approve it. He doesn't want to lose that money if he ends up as damaged goods.