Jack Eichel's Gambit

[darksabre]

I know we already have multiple threads going about Jack being traded, etc, but I have a specific thought that I want to explore as it relates to strategy.

The Eichel presser, followed several days later by the Adams presser, seems to paint the picture that these are two parties at odds with each other.

Eichel blasts the team for not letting him pursue the treatment he wants. He says that there's a disconnect. The team, rightfully having no benefit of the doubt, is painted as inept. Not hard to do.

Adams comes to the stand today and essentially quashes Eichel's line of argument. There is no disconnect. They know exactly what the situation is with Jack's injury. He's not surprised, he's not mad. 

Which makes me go "hmmm".

Regardless of the goal of the Eichel presser, it's safe to assume it was deliberate and calculated. And he and his team surely must have been anticipating the rebuttal from Adams after several days of outrage. They couldn't possibly have been anticipating a different response from Adams, right? No, they knew they were getting this.

So we're all sitting here saying "Well, clearly he's trying to force a trade" by making the team look bad. But has he succeeded at that? I would say he hasn't, and that Adams made a compelling argument in the team's favor. He turned the lense back on Jack. Jack's presser suddenly doesn't pack the punch that it seemed to at the time. Adams responds predictably, and that's the problem.

So Jack, in the war room with his team, is saying "Have I increased my chances of being traded by taking this approach?" I wouldn't be so confident. It relies on a lot of assumptions being true.

It assumes:

-Other teams' doctors wouldn't also reject the medical procedure he wants to have done;

-That the Sabres aren't willing to play hardball in order to avoid being seen as a team that you can just force your way off of;

-That Adams' reputation in the league is weak;

-That the Pegulas' reputation in the league is weak;

-That Eichel's reputation in the league is strong;

-That calling out the organization publicly was necessary to facilitate his movement.

The NHL, we know, is a bit of an old boys club. The NHL has a lot of "unwritten rules". Have Jack and his team committed a sin against the unwritten rules? Would a team look at Jack and say "He might be talented, but we don't need this."? Has Jack strengthened his position, or has he inadvertently put the Sabres back on a more solid footing?

The picture isn't very clear to me. But what I see from Jack is a pretty aggressive move, reckless, desperate even. I'm not sure it's the genius move he and his team might think it is...

[Thorner]

There's a lot there, good stuff. Need to think about it more. 

- - - 

My first instinct is that Jack's game plan is probably less to do with drumming up sympathy, and more to do with basically going Full Joker. Drum up as much press as possible. Ya, there will be the GM who says it reflects too poorly on JE, it's too much of a distraction or whatever, but in the end, the smart ones rely most on accurately identified talent and I think the GM that acquires Jack is a smart GM, so that informs my opinion here. 

Create enough chaos, a team is going to move you just to be rid of it. They can't exactly preach all this stuff about harmony and allow an atmosphere like that to continue, can they? It doesn't really matter who's right, and who's wrong - people are going to argue and take their sides anyways. It's all about garnering that attention. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Taro T]

22 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I know we already have multiple threads going about Jack being traded, etc, but I have a specific thought that I want to explore as it relates to strategy.

The Eichel presser, followed several days later by the Adams presser, seems to paint the picture that these are two parties at odds with each other.

Eichel blasts the team for not letting him pursue the treatment he wants. He says that there's a disconnect. The team, rightfully having no benefit of the doubt, is painted as inept. Not hard to do.

Adams comes to the stand today and essentially quashes Eichel's line of argument. There is no disconnect. They know exactly what the situation is with Jack's injury. He's not surprised, he's not mad. 

Which makes me go "hmmm".

Regardless of the goal of the Eichel presser, it's safe to assume it was deliberate and calculated. And he and his team surely must have been anticipating the rebuttal from Adams after several days of outrage. They couldn't possibly have been anticipating a different response from Adams, right? No, they knew they were getting this.

So we're all sitting here saying "Well, clearly he's trying to force a trade" by making the team look bad. But has he succeeded at that? I would say he hasn't, and that Adams made a compelling argument in the team's favor. He turned the lense back on Jack. Jack's presser suddenly doesn't pack the punch that it seemed to at the time. Adams responds predictably, and that's the problem.

So Jack, in the war room with his team, is saying "Have I increased my chances of being traded by taking this approach?" I wouldn't be so confident. It relies on a lot of assumptions being true.

It assumes:

-Other teams' doctors wouldn't also reject the medical procedure he wants to have done;

-That the Sabres aren't willing to play hardball in order to avoid being seen as a team that you can just force your way off of;

-That Adams' reputation in the league is weak;

-That the Pegulas' reputation in the league is weak;

-That Eichel's reputation in the league is strong;

-That calling out the organization publicly was necessary to facilitate his movement.

The NHL, we know, is a bit of an old boys club. The NHL has a lot of "unwritten rules". Have Jack and his team committed a sin against the unwritten rules? Would a team look at Jack and say "He might be talented, but we don't need this."? Has Jack strengthened his position, or has he inadvertently put the Sabres back on a more solid footing?

The picture isn't very clear to me. But what I see from Jack is a pretty aggressive move, reckless, desperate even. I'm not sure it's the genius move he and his team might think it is...

While it MIGHT have been calculated, it could also be a frustrated 24 yo having to be grilled by people he doesn't respect right after a long, disappointing/frustrating meeting with his bosses.

Remember, the conversation started out on a pretty even keel & then ~10 minutes in went kerboom.

Anybody else here glad they didn't have to speak publicly right after not seeing eye to eye with their boss for an hour or so?  Yours truly could definitely have been goaded into saying something that sounded really bad & might not even have been reflective of how things really are in such a situation.

[Hoss]

This is the type of thought-provoking content you don’t find on many other forums. Good work and well laid out.

[LGR4GM]

Only thing I can think of when reading this title

 

[Buffalonill]

All i know it's gonna be a  Messy divorce

[steveoath]

Counterpoint:

In a 

Eichel played through injury. Got new injury. I think that shows his desire to play for the team. He then Read on buzzfeed or some ***** that he could be back quickly with a roboneck but Sabres were concerned that the long term had not been studied in NHL players. Pouty Jack unhappy sabres won't risk it. No doubt he would love to be a Bruin or Cap but I don't doubt the commitment to the sabres.

No news here and I would be pissed if he was all smiles and giggles after this season. 

 

[nfreeman]

As a related point, I've been kinda wondering whether Jack's primary goal was to force the Sabres to consent to the surgery, not to force a trade -- i.e. maybe he's OK with staying here (although he'd doubtless be fine with a trade to a good team), but no matter what he wants to quit screwing around, have the surgery and get in shape for next season.

[K-9]

33 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I know we already have multiple threads going about Jack being traded, etc, but I have a specific thought that I want to explore as it relates to strategy.

The Eichel presser, followed several days later by the Adams presser, seems to paint the picture that these are two parties at odds with each other.

Eichel blasts the team for not letting him pursue the treatment he wants. He says that there's a disconnect. The team, rightfully having no benefit of the doubt, is painted as inept. Not hard to do.

Adams comes to the stand today and essentially quashes Eichel's line of argument. There is no disconnect. They know exactly what the situation is with Jack's injury. He's not surprised, he's not mad. 

Which makes me go "hmmm".

Regardless of the goal of the Eichel presser, it's safe to assume it was deliberate and calculated. And he and his team surely must have been anticipating the rebuttal from Adams after several days of outrage. They couldn't possibly have been anticipating a different response from Adams, right? No, they knew they were getting this.

So we're all sitting here saying "Well, clearly he's trying to force a trade" by making the team look bad. But has he succeeded at that? I would say he hasn't, and that Adams made a compelling argument in the team's favor. He turned the lense back on Jack. Jack's presser suddenly doesn't pack the punch that it seemed to at the time. Adams responds predictably, and that's the problem.

So Jack, in the war room with his team, is saying "Have I increased my chances of being traded by taking this approach?" I wouldn't be so confident. It relies on a lot of assumptions being true.

It assumes:

-Other teams' doctors wouldn't also reject the medical procedure he wants to have done;

-That the Sabres aren't willing to play hardball in order to avoid being seen as a team that you can just force your way off of;

-That Adams' reputation in the league is weak;

-That the Pegulas' reputation in the league is weak;

-That Eichel's reputation in the league is strong;

-That calling out the organization publicly was necessary to facilitate his movement.

The NHL, we know, is a bit of an old boys club. The NHL has a lot of "unwritten rules". Have Jack and his team committed a sin against the unwritten rules? Would a team look at Jack and say "He might be talented, but we don't need this."? Has Jack strengthened his position, or has he inadvertently put the Sabres back on a more solid footing?

The picture isn't very clear to me. But what I see from Jack is a pretty aggressive move, reckless, desperate even. I'm not sure it's the genius move he and his team might think it is...

While I haven’t enjoyed being an active member of this forum for years now, someone pointed out this post and after reading it, I see why. This is simply an outstanding take on the situation. Well done.

As for Eichel, he flat out misrepresented the “disconnect” over the injury situation. His OWN second opinion doctors agreed with the prescribed conservative 12 week rehab, which we are still in the window of, taking new images after that, and then proceeding accordingly. Not surprising since most in the medical profession adhere to “best practices” protocols. 
 

I’ve long suspected Eichel was a born and raised Bruin fan who never embraced playing in a city for a team he despised as a kid. His bullcrap the other day is an embarrassment. And while the entire organization is an embarrassment at the moment, that at least has the potential to be fixed. Eichel will always be the entitled masshole that he is. Yes, he’s a great player and yes we will be worse without him, but we won’t/can’t be any worse than where are now. As good a player as he is, if he doesn’t want to be here, none of that matters. 
 

 

[Scottysabres]

Eichel's not worth the effort, time to move on from him.

 

[Norcal]

I think now that both sides have had a chance to speak that Jack pulled a calculated move, exasperated by a press that has never fully respected Eichel as a player and it mostly backfired on him IMO. 

Will teams trade for an injured Eichel? 

Will the timeline of 12 weeks, as Adams stated, show progress on that front? 

If Eichel does get the surgery, what is the timeline of recovery?

Do teams just wait? 

 

[Hoss]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Only thing I can think of when reading this title

 

Considering D’s love for this show (according to his Twitter) this was most likely intentional haha

[darksabre]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

There's a lot there, good stuff. Need to think about it more. 

- - - 

My first instinct is that Jack's game plan is probably less to do with drumming up sympathy, and more to do with basically going Full Joker. Drum up as much press as possible. Ya, there will be the GM who says it reflects too poorly on JE, it's too much of a distraction or whatever, but in the end, the smart ones rely most on accurately identified talent and I think the GM that acquires Jack is a smart GM, so that informs my opinion here. 

Create enough chaos, a team is going to move you just to be rid of it. They can't exactly preach all this stuff about harmony and allow an atmosphere like that to continue, can they? It doesn't really matter who's right, and who's wrong - people are going to argue and take their sides anyways. It's all about garnering that attention. 

I think, if Jack's goal was simply to create movement through chaos, he's going to be disappointed.

 

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

While it MIGHT have been calculated, it could also be a frustrated 24 yo having to be grilled by people he doesn't respect right after a long, disappointing/frustrating meeting with his bosses.

Remember, the conversation started out on a pretty even keel & then ~10 minutes in went kerboom.

Anybody else here glad they didn't have to speak publicly right after not seeing eye to eye with their boss for an hour or so?  Yours truly could definitely have been goaded into saying something that sounded really bad & might not even have been reflective of how things really are in such a situation.

This certainly doesn't help Eichel though if his goal is to be perceived as a mature adult and a piece you build a team around. You can't have a player constantly going rogue.
 

54 minutes ago, steveoath said:

Counterpoint:

In a 

Eichel played through injury. Got new injury. I think that shows his desire to play for the team. He then Read on buzzfeed or some ***** that he could be back quickly with a roboneck but Sabres were concerned that the long term had not been studied in NHL players. Pouty Jack unhappy sabres won't risk it. No doubt he would love to be a Bruin or Cap but I don't doubt the commitment to the sabres.

No news here and I would be pissed if he was all smiles and giggles after this season. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with you. My opinion on Jack was pretty friendly to him this season. When other people thought he was mailing it in, I felt like he was hurt, and it turned out that he was.

He was kinda smiles and giggles though, wasn't he? That interview was a little weird.
 

45 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

As a related point, I've been kinda wondering whether Jack's primary goal was to force the Sabres to consent to the surgery, not to force a trade -- i.e. maybe he's OK with staying here (although he'd doubtless be fine with a trade to a good team), but no matter what he wants to quit screwing around, have the surgery and get in shape for next season.

I'm glad you said this because it's something I was thinking but couldn't find a way to work into the post. It would be absolutely wild if Jack isn't trying to get traded and this whole thing is ONLY about the surgery. Look at all this chaos. He wants a surgery that no one in the league would recommend and he's bringing hell down on his team over it.

For his reputation's sake he better be trying to force a trade.

 

41 minutes ago, K-9 said:

While I haven’t enjoyed being an active member of this forum for years now, someone pointed out this post and after reading it, I see why. This is simply an outstanding take on the situation. Well done.

As for Eichel, he flat out misrepresented the “disconnect” over the injury situation. His OWN second opinion doctors agreed with the prescribed conservative 12 week rehab, which we are still in the window of, taking new images after that, and then proceeding accordingly. Not surprising since most in the medical profession adhere to “best practices” protocols. 
 

I’ve long suspected Eichel was a born and raised Bruin fan who never embraced playing in a city for a team he despised as a kid. His bullcrap the other day is an embarrassment. And while the entire organization is an embarrassment at the moment, that at least has the potential to be fixed. Eichel will always be the entitled masshole that he is. Yes, he’s a great player and yes we will be worse without him, but we won’t/can’t be any worse than where are now. As good a player as he is, if he doesn’t want to be here, none of that matters. 
 

 

I really gave no idea what to make of him. I think he just wants to win. I don't think there are sinister motives.
 

39 minutes ago, Norcal said:

I think now that both sides have had a chance to speak that Jack pulled a calculated move, exasperated by a press that has never fully respected Eichel as a player and it mostly backfired on him IMO. 

Will teams trade for an injured Eichel? 

Will the timeline of 12 weeks, as Adams stated, show progress on that front? 

If Eichel does get the surgery, what is the timeline of recovery?

Do teams just wait? 

 

All good questions. I think the surgery vs. patience thing is going to be a big player in this. Is there a team out there willing to trade for Jack and then let him take the risk? That would be gutsy.

Edited May 12, 2021 by darksabre

[rickshaw]

Great post!

If Jack is moved the team need to make sure they do it this year and do it right. Will we get a Jack back, no, but hopefully we will get pieces that can come along with the quality kids we have (see Dylan Cozens) 

And another poster said he’s a Bruin fan. I have no doubt he is. But if Jack thinks  he will be anywhere near our division, let alone conference, I’d be surprised.

Again, I live in a city where lots of players spend their summers. I speak to many with my job (liquor store) and I’ve asked about Jack and Sam as guys. Let me put it this way,   NOBODY came out and said “quality guys”

I basically said what I thought from my perch (would never ask them to talk about a guy behind his back) but my inferences did warrant looks or responses that would lead me to believe I was correct in my thoughts on the players in question.

So to me Jack made himself look like an a$$. And going forward I don’t think the quality young guys need to be “lead” by someone like Jack and or Sam. 
 

I know the team is an embarrassment but on this matter I am all management.

 

Going way ahead . If they can’t move him this summer (say nobody wants an injured player) and then he gets his choice of teams he goes to, he clearly holds the cards. But that doesn’t mean they have to trade him. He can demand one, but they don’t have to. He can then hold out, and they can let him rot. The team was clearly better without him playing this year. All I’m saying is this could be a scenario and it would be very interesting. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by rickshaw

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I think, if Jack's goal was simply to create movement through chaos, he's going to be disappointed.

 

This certainly doesn't help Eichel though if his goal is to be perceived as a mature adult and a piece you build a team around. You can't have a player constantly going rogue.
 

I'm inclined to agree with you. My opinion on Jack was pretty friendly to him this season. When other people thought he was mailing it in, I felt like he was hurt, and it turned out that he was.

He was kinda smiles and giggles though, wasn't he? That interview was a little weird.
 

I'm glad you said this because it's something I was thinking but couldn't find a way to work into the post. It would be absolutely wild if Jack isn't trying to get traded and this whole thing is ONLY about the surgery. Look at all this chaos. He wants a surgery that no one in the league would recommend and he's bringing hell down on his team over it.

For his reputation's sake he better be trying to force a trade.

 

I really gave no idea what to make of him. I think he just wants to win. I don't think there are sinister motives.
 

All good questions. I think the surgery vs. patience thing is going to be a big player in this. Is there a team out there willing to trade for Jack and then let him take the risk? That would be a gutsy.

It definitely doesn't help make him look mature, but IF it was heat of the moment, it is what it is.

Speculated/asked back after the PC if the reason for the "tirade" was simply because he REALLY wants the surgery so he can actually start training again on the timetable he (& HIS trainers) believe he needs to be on to be 100% on day 1.

Remember, he's been injured right before camp or right at the end of camp at least 1/3 of his NHL seasons.  He really liked and respects Krueger. Fairly certain he loved the idea of playing w/ Taylor Hall & Reinhart & the 1st time we saw that they cycled the puck for over a minute (but could never finish on that shift).  Knowing that HIS play (which in large part was torpedoed due to the rib & lingering groin) contributed to both of them being gone; he HAS to want to get back to the 100+ point pace he was on prior to the groin injury.  And he seemed pretty darn convinced that this surgery will give him the best chance to hit the ground running.

Why would we be surprised that the emotions of just having been told AGAIN that the team's doctors & therefore the team don't agree with him were close to the surface?  A 24 yo couldn't keep his emotions fully in check for more than 10 minutes dealing with people he doesn't respect who are LOOKING FOR the money quote.  Let's give him credit for getting through the 1st 10 minutes without going to the 'good Lord, I'd really like to rip into these *****' smirk.  A sign of immaturity, depending upon the viewpoint, it could actually be a sign OF maturity.

Personally, my emotions & views of this are swirling & that's from just watching.  Right after his exit interview, he had to be emotionally wired.   They should've had all the interviews in the AM & the PC's a couple hours later in the afternoon to let guys get fully composed.  MHO.  YMMV.

[Thorner]

Reminds me a lot of the Kawhi Leonard situation 

yes i just compared The Spurs to the Sabres lol

Edited May 12, 2021 by Thorny

[Norcal]

41 minutes ago, darksabre said:

All good questions. I think the surgery vs. patience thing is going to be a big player in this. Is there a team out there willing to trade for Jack and then let him take the risk? That would be gutsy.

Certainly would but I'm not sure there is any other way if a deal is to be done now. Jack is saying it's multiple injuries, some lingering since last year.

I wonder if Jack has been forthcoming about how he was previously injured? When did he report the initial injury or injuries from last year and the beginning of this one?

Did he rehab them or was he just hoping rest was all that was needed?

Did he follow the treatment plan for those injuries? 

I don't see how a deal can be completed this summer, if at all IMO.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

As a related point, I've been kinda wondering whether Jack's primary goal was to force the Sabres to consent to the surgery, not to force a trade -- i.e. maybe he's OK with staying here (although he'd doubtless be fine with a trade to a good team), but no matter what he wants to quit screwing around, have the surgery and get in shape for next season.

A valid point.  We all interpreted Jack's remarks as his "lost my love for the game" moment.  It could be entirely the opposite.  His frustration stems from his love of the game and his desire to get back to it. 

If he's trying to force a team, any team, to consent to the surgery though, that might be a hard sell, full stop.  Is *any* team going to allow a star player to get a surgical procedure that no other NHLer has gotten?

He could get traded and get stuck in a different hell.  There is every reason to believe that if the Sabres reset more or less intact next season, with a healthy Jack, and healthy Jake, and healthy Linus, and a better backup goalie, under a forward-looking coach (be it Granato or whoever), the Sabres could be a significantly better team.  By forcing a trade this season, Jack could be traded to a team that will suck even worse next year.... and partly because the other team had to give up so much to acquire him.

He may realize this.  His gambit may simply be to try to get the Sabres to okay the surgery, but maybe by failing to comply the Sabres are protecting Jack from himself.

[Hoss]

26 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Reminds me a lot of the Kawhi Leonard situation 

yes i just compared The Spurs to the Sabres lol

This is actually a good comparison.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Hoss said:

This is actually a good comparison.

It really feels like it too. I'm on the other side this time, though

[Doohicksie]

43 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Speculated/asked back after the PC if the reason for the "tirade" was simply because he REALLY wants the surgery so he can actually start training again on the timetable he (& HIS trainers) believe he needs to be on to be 100% on day 1.

Roid rage.  Or maybe roid withdrawal rage.

[Hoss]

33 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It really feels like it too. I'm on the other side this time, though

As a Raptors fan I enjoyed the Kawhi situation much more.

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

As a Raptors fan I enjoyed the Kawhi situation much more.

Same. Was incredible. 

The comparison will diverge soon though as I doubt Eichel goes to another team for a single year. Crazy. 

[PerreaultForever]

Gambit is a good way of putting it. I don't think there is any question Jack (and his agent, they are almost always the schemers behind these things salivating over a possible big market marketing opportunity) orchestrated or at least attempted to orchestrate the perceptions of a disconnect and thus without directly demanding a trade pretty much placed himself at odds with the team. 

So there is no possible way to move this team forward without trading him. If you try, it will all fall apart again and then he will have his no trade and then he gets the driver's seat and we will get a Hall type return when he quits on us. If the Sabres do not trade him after this, they are insane. 

[North Buffalo]

Great thread... so if you are vindictive do you send Jack to somewhere like Arizona or Calgary?