Sabres clinch last place...or did they?

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

We still suck all these years after the tank becuase we never had enough NHLers to field a full roster, not beause we picked up a handful of veterans.  The best team we've iced since the fateful decision to burn the house down was the season we had all those vets.

People say they burned the house down, but they forget the foundation was cracked, the furnace didn't work and the roof leaked bad. The house was a shambles and needed to be torched for the insurance money. 

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

We still suck all these years after the tank becuase we never had enough NHLers to field a full roster, not beause we picked up a handful of veterans.  The best team we've iced since the fateful decision to burn the house down was the season we had all those vets.

That season we mortgaged our future by depleting our stock of picks and prospects to bring in non-sustainable veteren contracts only to miss the playoffs by a mile anyways. We're only starting to recover now for that horrible asset management.

Edited May 8, 2021 by JoeSchmoe

[Weave]

35 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

That season we mortgaged our future by depleting our stock of picks and prospects to bring in non-sustainable veteren contracts only to miss the playoffs by a mile anyways. We're only starting to recover now for that horrible asset management.

What difference makers moved out for players that didn't help us?

[Weave]

43 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

People say they burned the house down, but they forget the foundation was cracked, the furnace didn't work and the roof leaked bad. The house was a shambles and needed to be torched for the insurance money. 

Except insurance doesn't pay for torch jobs and you end up rebuilding from nothing when you could have used what you have to reduce the output needed to get occupancy again.

[JoeSchmoe]

16 minutes ago, Weave said:

What difference makers moved out for players that didn't help us?

Start with the draft picks. Two firsts, and two seconds out the door for veterans that cost $$$$$$. You need a constant influx of good cheap players to be good long term.

There isnt a single example in the league of a team that is a perennial contender that does so by giving away their picks. 

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Start with the draft picks. Two firsts, and two seconds out the door for veterans that cost $$$$$$. You need a constant influx of good cheap players to be good long term.

There isnt a single example in the league of a team that is a perennial contender that does so by giving away their picks. 

There isn't a single example in the league of a team that is a perennial contender that doesn't augment their own players with trades.

[JoeSchmoe]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

There isn't a single example in the league of a team that is a perennial contender that doesn't augment their own players with trades.

Augment yes, or trade away their young talent and draft picks, no.

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Augment yes, or trade away their young talent and draft picks, no.

No, you're right.  Buffalo is the only team in the league that trades draft picks for players.  They pioneered the idea and no else followed them. 

[Marvin]

Let us establish what is objectively better and not.  I think we have all partially forgotten what 4 competent NHL lines on the Sabres looks like.  So let me put on my analyst turban.  Tell me how this looks to you.

I. Under HCDG, the players execute hockey fundamentals at basic NHL-level competence for the first time in ages.

II. For the first time since 2012-3, we have 18 skaters and 2 goaltenders who all belong on NHL rosters.

But now, let us compare the roster with other teams'.  As it is now, this is a flawed roster with some obvious holes.

III. Ullmark is in the high end of the average starting goaltenders and keeps getting better.  Pekka-Lukkonen looked solid.  Mike Bales can perform miracles near the level of Arturs Irbe but for a shorter time.

IV. Borgen, Bryson, and Samuelsson are 5-8D right now.  Dahlin, Miller, Ristolainen, Jokiharu, and McCabe are currently all in the 3-5D range.  Fortunately, the youth seem to have very high floors and high ceilings.

V. Eichel is a high-end 1C.  Skinner and Olofsson need the right kind of centres, but function in the 2W range in a vacuum.  Reinhart looks like a 2C.  Cozens is about a 3C now but will improve quickly.  Ruotsalainen, Asplund, Thompson, and Mittlestadt look like decent 3rd-liners and are all improving.

Bjork is a 4th liner with some room to grow.  Girgensons and Okposo are ultra-high-end 4th liners.  Sheahan, Reider, and Caggiula are 4th liners of varying competence.  Eakin brings up the rear.

The holes on this team are pretty obvious:

1.  Too many finesse-type players overall, particularly at forward.

2. Not enough sage, veteran, defencive defencemen.  We need a couple of these.

3. Goaltending depth.

4. Top 6 forward.  Sure, Cozens can be one next year, but I would still like to add someone else who plays the game like Cozens does.

[JoeSchmoe]

20 minutes ago, Weave said:

No, you're right.  Buffalo is the only team in the league that trades draft picks for players.  They pioneered the idea and no else followed them. 

That's augmenting.

What struggling team has turned themselves into a contender by trading their young up and comers and high draft picks for veterans? 

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

That's augmenting.

What struggling team has turned themselves into a contender by trading their young up and comers and high draft picks for veterans? 

If they traded all or even most of them you’d be on to something.  But the reality is they had alot of picks and youth and not much else.  They didn’t have enough players in the system to ice an NHL team.  They needed actual players just to get NHL players on 3 lines.  Their options were to ice nearly 1/2 of a game day roster of not NHL players or move some kids/picks to get actual NHL players so the team had a chance of being watchable.  It is an entertainment venue afterall.

[3putt]

8 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

He gets better and better all the time. Seeing the ice comes with minutes played... Something hes just starting to get consistently under DG.

No he doesn’t get better. He is the same player being gifted minutes due to no alternative.  He is what he is at this point. He isn’t getting any more aware on the ice. If anything he is getting worse.

[JoeSchmoe]

9 minutes ago, 3putt said:

No he doesn’t get better. He is the same player being gifted minutes due to no alternative.  He is what he is at this point. He isn’t getting any more aware on the ice. If anything he is getting worse.

Since March 29, when Granato turned the team around, he's 3rd on the team in scoring, playing under 15min per game.

[MidwestSabresFan]

On 5/6/2021 at 7:23 AM, WildCard said:

Guys we haven't clinched last place yet lol if I've ever seen a jinx it's this one 

Even if we had clinched last this isn't true. Last can draft no worse than 3rd overall. 

You must of forgot, we had Hall. We're already jinxed. Lol. 

However, I'm just glad the NHL isn't throwing out the stupid "first team eliminated from the qualifying round gets the better pick" card this year. Man was that a kick in the pants. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by MidwestSabresFan
Brain fart

[dudacek]

Interesting thing about Weave’s theory is this year’s Sabres team was loaded with veterans initially

Why did it improve when kids like Mittelstadt, Thompson, Asplund, Bjork, Samuelsson and Bryson replaced veterans like Staal, Hall, Reider, Eakin, Montour and Miller?

[Weave]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Interesting thing about Weave’s theory is this year’s Sabres team was loaded with veterans initially

Why did it improve when kids like Mittelstadt, Thompson, Asplund, Bjork, Samuelsson and Bryson replaced veterans like Staal, Hall, Reider, Eakin, Montour and Miller?

Desire to be here is my guess.  And a coaching change around the same time.

[Hoss]

Just now, Weave said:

Desire to be here is my guess.  And a coaching change around the same time.

Yea this is kind of an old, predictable formula. You fire a coach and put kids in a position to excel. It happens all the time. There’s ZERO pressure on the kids so they okay their game. It’s not sustainable. I’m surprised a fan base as trained and tainted as this doesn’t see it.

[dudacek]

Just now, Hoss said:

Yea this is kind of an old, predictable formula. You fire a coach and put kids in a position to excel. It happens all the time. There’s ZERO pressure on the kids so they okay their game. It’s not sustainable. I’m surprised a fan base as trained and tainted as this doesn’t see it.

Trying to think of the last time this happened here...?

[Hoss]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Trying to think of the last time this happened here...?

There hasn’t really been an opportunity because this has been a competitive franchisee for almost all of its existence.

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, Hoss said:

There hasn’t really been an opportunity because this has been a competitive franchisee for almost all of its existence.

I think you’re right.

Mid-season firing haven’t happened all that much in Buffalo, period.

Edit: looks like 78, 92, 13, and 14, before this year, if you don’t count the weird ***** Bowman was doing.

John Muckler and Ted Nolan were the only mid-season replacements who weren’t interim.

Edited May 9, 2021 by dudacek

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Weave said:

Except insurance doesn't pay for torch jobs and you end up rebuilding from nothing when you could have used what you have to reduce the output needed to get occupancy again.

or you hire better contractors to do the rebuilding.

and they build it from the foundation up, as all solid lasting structures are built, rather than from starting with the top and then haphazardly trying to support that top with some ramshackle cobbled together bunch of sticks and stones you found lying around.

[dudacek]

11 hours ago, Hoss said:

There hasn’t really been an opportunity because this has been a competitive franchisee for almost all of its existence.

It lacks the kids angle, but Rolston is probably the best parallel. 
The team got a jolt under him initially but its laughable to suggest he was an upgrade on Lindy today.

In Ron’s defence, management started the process of dismantling the team when they hired him. God save us if they are about to do that again.

[Taro T]

Still believe that after goaltending & getting the right coach, the thing this team needs most is the 2C.  Yes, there are 3 potentially viable candidates in house & there is a very real possibility that 1-3 of those internal candidates might be ready for it in the fall of '22; but 2 likely aren't there yet & the 3rd that might be really works well with the franchise C.

As they really only NEED the 2C to be GOOD at that role for 1 season, wondering if Olofsson & either Ristolainen or a 2nd could get that guy.

Lines end up:

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart

Ruotsalainen/Bjork - Vet 2C - Cozens/Ruotsalainen

Asplund - Mittelstadt - Thompson

Girgensons - New 4C/ Cozens - Okposo

Spare: Eakin / Bjork

Wouldn't mind re-signing Sheahan to be the spare to send Eakin to Ra-cha-cha.

They'd need to sign a vet D to partner with (hopefully) McCabe.

McCabe - New guy

Dahlin - Borgen

Samuelson - Jokiharju

Spares Bryson & 2nd new guy.  Top 2 pairings basically interchangeable.  You want to say Dahlin's pair is 1st, cool.

 

Would still be nervous if too many injuries happen as really not sure the guys pencilled innforvRa-cha-cha can step up as about 7 of those guys from this year stepped up leaving fewer guys to be down there on the verge of being ready for their shot.

And if Reinhart is the 2C this year, want to see Cozens on Eichel's wing.

[dudacek]

Maybe the thing I liked best about watching the Sabres’ finish to the season was that for the first time since Ryan O’Reilly wore Blue and gold, we had two lines that seemed like they were a threat to score.

The thought of adding a line with Jack and Skinner to the Reinhart/Olofsson combo and the ATM group makes me think an trot out three capable lines, and teams with three capable lines generally win more than they lose.

I’m firmly in the Sam at centre camp.

It will be much, much easier to find a competent top-six RW than it will to be to find a 2C that can give us anything close to what Sam can.

[Marvin]

13 hours ago, dudacek said:

It lacks the kids angle, but Rolston is probably the best parallel. 
The team got a jolt under him initially but its laughable to suggest he was an upgrade on Lindy today.

In Ron’s defence, management started the process of dismantling the team when they hired him. God save us if they are about to do that again.

Rolston's 2013 Sabres also had more rest than other teams at the end of that year.  The Sabres played 13 games in the first 22 days while no one else played more than 10.  They played a lot of tired teams late that season which helped Rolston's optics.