2021 "Not a Tank" Standings

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He still isn't. 

[#freejame]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but if we finish first we can pick no later than second. If we finish second we can pick 1,2,4 because Seattle is guaranteed third. 

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but if we finish first we can pick no later than second. If we finish second we can pick 1,2,4 because Seattle is guaranteed third. 

Unless you finish 15h from the bottom, or 14th, you can fall 2 spots. So we could potentially fall from 1st to 3rd. 

If we finish second last we could pick 3rd of 4th - Seattle isn't guaranteed the 3rd pick, they just get the 3rd from last spot pre-lottery. They can win either of the drawings

Edited April 29, 2021 by Thorny

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I'm just tired of it. It's been said many times there is no consensus with this draft, I'll trust we'll get a good player from where we pick, wherever that is, putting faith in their evaluation skills - if that's the trade off required by me for not having to stomach another last place finish. 

i dont care if its last or 2nd last.  Dont want 3rd last because you are then 4th in the lottery with Seattle being #3.

[Weave]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

Question, rooting for wins aside, who else *wants* them to NOT finish last?

I want them to win out and don’t give one ounce of care where they draft.

[Hoss]

Big update just now. San Jose and Calgary were "eliminated." Every team got two points because of our loss. Devils also won so they moved four points tonight.

[Hoss]

No other result tonight can move the needle here but LA vs Anaheim tomorrow night is a chance for the Kings to be "eliminated" and/or the Ducks to get some points.

Vancouver (3), Columbus (2), Ottawa (2), Los Angeles (2) and Detroit (1) can all be elminated by the end of the day Saturday.

The earliest the Sabres can clinch last in the standings is next Monday.

[Thorner]

We're 7-16 during Granato's tenure for a paltry .370 points percentage (61 point 82 game pace)

We are gonna finish last

We aren't even on pace to catch anyone if all the teams above us stopped playing

[LGR4GM]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We're 7-16 during Granato's tenure for a paltry .370 points percentage (61 point 82 game pace)

We are gonna finish last

We aren't even on pace to catch anyone if all the teams above us stopped playing

We don't have enough talent and Granato can't fix that. 

That said, do a real coach search. Also, hire some freaking scouts. 

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We don't have enough talent and Granato can't fix that. 

That said, do a real coach search. Also, hire some freaking scouts. 

And hire a different coach. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

We're 7-16 during Granato's tenure for a paltry .370 points percentage (61 point 82 game pace)

We are gonna finish last

We aren't even on pace to catch anyone if all the teams above us stopped playing

Granato took over a broken team after 12 straight losses, then the team lost 6 more. When did this team stop being Krueger's and start being Granato's?

• He is playing three rookie defencemen, two of his three 'veterans' are 21 and 20.
• All three of his captains and both his goalies are injured
• His starting goalie hadn't won an NHL game in five years and his backup hasn't established himself as a starter in the AHL yet
• His 1st line centre hasn't played centre in years.
• His 2nd line centre played in the minors last year and entered the year with 17 career goals.
• He's regularly dressing 4-6 players (Sheahan, Rieder, Bjork, Caggiula, Eakin, and Irwin) who have been healthy scratches this year and could be classified as borderline NHLers
• He's also leaning on 8 more who weren't in the NHL at all last year.

Even after dropping three straight, he's 7/8/2 in the past month.

How much better do you think another coach could have done? (This is an honest question, not an endorsement of Granato.)

[Flashsabre]

I don’t want the first pick this year. Too much pressure to take Power who I don’t think is the best option. Either trade down a couple spots or lose the lottery would be fine with me. Especially with the new rules about only winning the lottery so many times. God forbid this doesn’t get turned around but winning for Wright or Bedard the next 2 years would be much more appealing.😁

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t want the first pick this year. Too much pressure to take Power who I don’t think is the best option. Either trade down a couple spots or lose the lottery would be fine with me. Especially with the new rules about only winning the lottery so many times. God forbid this doesn’t get turned around but winning for Wright or Bedard the next 2 years would be much more appealing.😁

Pressure from who?

This is the GM that took Quinn w/ his 1st pick last year when there were concensus at minimum 3 other picks rated higher.

If they end up at 1, so be it.  But really doubt Adams takes Power if he doesn't believe he's the best player remaining on his board.

[Thorner]

13 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t want the first pick this year. Too much pressure to take Power who I don’t think is the best option. Either trade down a couple spots or lose the lottery would be fine with me. Especially with the new rules about only winning the lottery so many times. God forbid this doesn’t get turned around but winning for Wright or Bedard the next 2 years would be much more appealing.😁

Excellent points 

[Thorner]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Granato took over a broken team after 12 straight losses, then the team lost 6 more. When did this team stop being Krueger's and start being Granato's?

• He is playing three rookie defencemen, two of his three 'veterans' are 21 and 20.
• All three of his captains and both his goalies are injured
• His starting goalie hadn't won an NHL game in five years and his backup hasn't established himself as a starter in the AHL yet
• His 1st line centre hasn't played centre in years.
• His 2nd line centre played in the minors last year and entered the year with 17 career goals.
• He's regularly dressing 4-6 players (Sheahan, Rieder, Bjork, Caggiula, Eakin, and Irwin) who have been healthy scratches this year and could be classified as borderline NHLers
• He's also leaning on 8 more who weren't in the NHL at all last year.

Even after dropping three straight, he's 7/8/2 in the past month.

How much better do you think another coach could have done? (This is an honest question, not an endorsement of Granato.)

How many of these bullet points apply to Krueger? Or similarly in cases of someone else filling the role (Staal)? 

There are going to be caveats you can list for any coach, and arbitrary cut off points you can draw, with anyone, to leave out 6 losses. 

At the end of the day my aspirations, even for this roster, are higher than a 61 point pace. 

My argument isn’t that Granato is god awful, it’s that I think we can do better. Even if the argument is Granato isn’t bad, I don’t think an argument can be satisfactory made that he’s proven himself to be good. Like real, NHL good. If that’s the case, and he’s pretty much an unknown in the grand scheme of things, we are back at square 1 - the burden of proof is on those who want to claim an NHL rookie head coach with no NHL accomplishment to his name is a better option than the Vets available with a more proven track record 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

I wouldn't worry about placement. Even with the worst record in the league, the odds of successfully winning #1 in the draft lottery are approximate five-point-four to one.

Whomever we pick should be able to contribute in 2022-23.

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Even after dropping three straight, he's 7/8/2 in the past month.

How much better do you think another coach could have done? (This is an honest question, not an endorsement of Granato.)

This is where I'm at as well. The team is playing alright given the circumstances. Yes, Boston has exposed them a couple times... but they haven't folded in the 1st or 2nd periods. And if Ullmark were starting these games instead of UPL/Tokarski, we probably are looking at another win or even two along the way. But don't let that fool you... Granato should be fourth or fifth on the interview list depending on what happens with free-agent coaches around the league.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

How many of these bullet points apply to Krueger? Or similarly in cases of someone else filling the role (Staal)? 

There are going to be caveats you can list for any coach, and arbitrary cut off points you can draw, with anyone, to leave out 6 losses. 

At the end of the day my aspirations, even for this roster, are higher than a 61 point pace. 

My argument isn’t that Granato is god awful, it’s that I think we can do better. Even if the argument is Granato isn’t bad, I don’t think an argument can be satisfactory made that he’s proven himself to be good. Like real, NHL good. If that’s the case, and he’s pretty much an unknown in the grand scheme of things, we are back at square 1 - the burden of proof is on those who want to claim an NHL rookie head coach with no NHL accomplishment to his name is a better option than the Vets available with a more proven track record 

I guess it all depends on if Granato is trying to win games or develop players in games. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I guess it all depends on if Granato is trying to win games or develop players in games. 

I do think he has done a good job with that. 

It’s saying something though, again more about Krueger IMO, that the ways he is utilizing the young players is EXACTLY HOW WE ALL SAID he should do it. 

@GASabresIUFANwill be sure to not let us forget that playing the youth in this way is something he advocated for long ago. Should GA be coach? 

Granato is exhibiting Base Level Competence and it’s success is striking only relevant to the dearth of insight we saw Krueger exhibit 

[LGR4GM]

I'm not saying hire Granato. I think they need a full search.

[dudacek]

I think Granato has been exactly the right coach to finish this season.

He's found a way to let the fans and the players enjoy hockey again.

He's erased the doubts that were creeping in about Dahlin, resurrected Casey Mittelstadt's career, uncovered startling things about Sam Reinhart and kindled hope for a half-dozen youngsters.

He's also won about as many games as one could reasonably expect given the situation and the talent he was handed.

None of these things mean he is the right coach to take this team into next season. Or the wrong one.

Edited April 30, 2021 by dudacek

[GASabresIUFAN]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:20 PM, dudacek said:

At the start of this season, I considered Cozens, Ruotsalainen, Mitts, Asplund, Thompson, Samuelsson, Borgen, Bryson and UPL prospects. That's now literally half our lineup.

Since January we've lost or benched 11 veteran regulars — Eichel, Hall, Staal, Montour, Miller, Eakin, Lazar, McCabe, Okposo, Hutton and Ullmark — and added one, Bjork.

It's really hard to compare what is happening now to the Krueger era. This is simply not the same team.

People who have been advocating for massive turnover have already received it. 

I am getting on board with making this lineup tougher. We are still getting manhandled by the Bruins.  They are taking it better and maybe some of that will come from experience but we could certainly use a physical middle 6 winger.       No idea who that is and whom we can afford.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

I do think he has done a good job with that. 

It’s saying something though, again more about Krueger IMO, that the ways he is utilizing the young players is EXACTLY HOW WE ALL SAID he should do it. 

@GASabresIUFANwill be sure to not let us forget that playing the youth in this way is something he advocated for long ago. Should GA be coach? 

Granato is exhibiting Base Level Competence and it’s success is striking only relevant to the dearth of insight we saw Krueger exhibit 

I feel like I'm more of a GM type.  I know how to work well with others, conduct good research, hire good people, make decisions efficiently and understand financial and legal issues.  Those are more GM skills, but thanks for the thought.

Edited April 30, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Hoss]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

Granato took over a broken team after 12 straight losses, then the team lost 6 more. When did this team stop being Krueger's and start being Granato's?

• He is playing three rookie defencemen, two of his three 'veterans' are 21 and 20.
• All three of his captains and both his goalies are injured
• His starting goalie hadn't won an NHL game in five years and his backup hasn't established himself as a starter in the AHL yet
• His 1st line centre hasn't played centre in years.
• His 2nd line centre played in the minors last year and entered the year with 17 career goals.
• He's regularly dressing 4-6 players (Sheahan, Rieder, Bjork, Caggiula, Eakin, and Irwin) who have been healthy scratches this year and could be classified as borderline NHLers
• He's also leaning on 8 more who weren't in the NHL at all last year.

Even after dropping three straight, he's 7/8/2 in the past month.

How much better do you think another coach could have done? (This is an honest question, not an endorsement of Granato.)

My position isn’t that Granato isn’t doing any worse than another coach could but he certainly isn’t doing any better. We’re getting bare minimum production and the needle hasn’t really moved aside from the team being worth watching because younger players are featured in more prominent roles now. Granato was never a good candidate in my eyes (though he is qualified for a shot as a HC) and has done nothing to change that.

[Hoss]

We’re really getting to the brink here. Down to three teams and one of them has 12 games to get 1 point.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

We’re really getting to the brink here. Down to three teams and one of them has 12 games to get 1 point.

After Luukkonnen went down, the chances of Adams not following in his predecessors' steps having assembled the team acquiring the fewest points in the league in his inaugural season became infinitesimally minute.

It'll take a minor miracle to get 4 more points, not even counting the likelihood that Anaheim gets at least a point or 2 in their last 5 games.