2021 "Not a Tank" Standings

[rakish]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don't think there is any mystery to the bold.

Johansson was traded because he was poised to become a UFA and the Sabres don't see him in their future plans.

They are going with UPL in Rochester next year and Tokarski is under contract and more than capable of being his battery mate down there. And, after this year, there is no way the Sabres should be going into next season with Johansson as the back-up.

As to the rest, I think it is very evident the Sabres have been using the finish of this season to observe and develop their youngsters by using them in as many situations as possible.

Yes, Dudacek, that's all a possible reading of their behavior, but at least admit that their are other possible reasons for their behavior. I'm not saying either reading is true.

[JoeSchmoe]

In my opinion, we're not even close to being the worst team in the league right now.

This team getting a top pick in the draft has to be some sort of concession from the hockey gods for the undue pain inflicted by Ralph.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, rakish said:

Yes, Dudacek, that's all a possible reading of their behavior, but at least admit that their are other possible reasons for their behavior. I'm not saying either reading is true.

Of course. We rarely have enough information to ever really know about the off-ice decision-making.

[msw2112]

I don't follow NHL draft prospects very closely, but from what little I know, there is not a consensus #1 guy in the draft.  So if the Sabres finish last, second-to-last, etc., it probably won't make that much difference.  Plus, the league has restructured the lottery in such a way that the bottom teams cannot fall too far in the draft order, even if they don't win one of the lottery slots.  If there was a Connor McDavid available, I'd be fine with "missing out" on some points and finishing lower (not an all-out tank), but given the current circumstances, I don't think it matters that much.  I'd like to see this team win as many games as they can and play as well as they can so that the young guys can continue to develop and create something to build on for next year.

[LGR4GM]

19 minutes ago, rakish said:

Yes, Dudacek, that's all a possible reading of their behavior, but at least admit that their are other possible reasons for their behavior. I'm not saying either reading is true.

To be fair, I don't think the reading you suggested sounds remotely plausible. If they wanted to tank they would have gutted the team at the deadline as much as possible. 

[Weave]

12 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I don't follow NHL draft prospects very closely, but from what little I know, there is not a consensus #1 guy in the draft.  So if the Sabres finish last, second-to-last, etc., it probably won't make that much difference.  Plus, the league has restructured the lottery in such a way that the bottom teams cannot fall too far in the draft order, even if they don't win one of the lottery slots.  If there was a Connor McDavid available, I'd be fine with "missing out" on some points and finishing lower (not an all-out tank), but given the current circumstances, I don't think it matters that much.  I'd like to see this team win as many games as they can and play as well as they can so that the young guys can continue to develop and create something to build on for next year.

The difference it makes is they get to choose from a bigger list who they draft.  Is that significant this time around?  WTF knows.

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, I-90 W said:

Yes, I’m sure there is at least one. Probably many in fact. Hopelessly looking to draft picks is now part of our fanbase’s culture. Given our drafting track history, they ought to know better, but that’s another subject. 

I used to be a huge tank guy and I want to see them win, I’m skeptical that’s there are many that want to see them lose 

 

[Hoss]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Again, tanking involves trading away talent in order to finish last. That would mean Reinhart, Eichel, Risto (well maybe not Risto), Olofsson, Skinner, Miller, Sheahan, Borgen so basically most of the none youth guys in order to ensure you finish last. They were willingly playing Ullmark until he got hurt again. This isn't a tank. 

What we are seeing is a lost season and allowing the younger players to experience and react to different situations. Granato talked already about putting players in different situations to get tape on how they handled them. The motivation is obvious, "what do we actually have going forward?"

I don’t believe it’s a tank either but I also don’t think teams care about wins in a lost season at the end. They care about seeing what they’ve got and will prioritize that over winning games. It becomes notable whether what you’ve got can or can’t win games, obviously.

This isn’t a tank, hence why the title reads “Tank.”

[Cal Naughton Jr]

There’s nobody to tank for this draft so I won’t actively cheer for a “tank”. Very weak draft class. The top 3 or 4 guys are probably right around the same talent level

[IKnowPhysics]

13 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

The top 3 or 4 guys are probably right around the same talent level

So if we can't expect to win the draft lottery, then we'd have to finish dead last to guarantee one of them..?

[Cal Naughton Jr]

12 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

So if we can't expect to win the draft lottery, then we'd have to finish dead last to guarantee one of them..?

My prediction is we’ll draft 7th or 8th

[Hoss]

1 minute ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

My prediction is we’ll draft 7th or 8th

The chances of that happening without a trade are almost zero.

[IKnowPhysics]

5 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

My prediction is we’ll draft 7th or 8th

 

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

The chances of that happening without a trade are almost zero.

 

Elaborate, both of you.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

My prediction is we’ll draft 7th or 8th

Walk me through a scenario not involving a trade that gets us to draft 7th or 8th. 

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

 

 

Elaborate, both of you.

They can only fall two spots in the lottery meaning drafting “7th or 8th” would require them to be anywhere from 5th to 8th in the lottery. To do so, they’d need to “pass” 4-7 teams in the standings by the end of the season.

To pass four teams they’d need AT LEAST eight points, probably closer to 13/14 points.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

 

 

Elaborate, both of you.

Hoss already laid out the math.

17 hours ago, Hoss said:

Okay, okay. It seems not many around these parts are actively rooting for losses (I am not, either, for the record). But the team is here again as the games wind down. Figured I would get a little standings tracker going so we can get an idea where the team stands in the lottery.

Right now:

Vegas, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Florida, Colorado, Tampa Bay, Washington, Minnesota, Toronto, New York I, Boston, Edmonton, Winnipeg, New York R, Nashville, Dallas, Montreal, Philadelphia, Chicago, St. Louis and Arizona have all been "eliminated."

The following are in order from closest to us in the standing and the "magic number" of points needed is in parentheses (any combo of the Sabres losing points and that team gaining points makes this number go down and when it reaches zero that team is eliminated).

Anaheim (7 games remain, 11 points)

New Jersey (7 games remain, 9 points)

Ottawa (7 games remain, 6 points)

Vancouver (14 games remain, 5 points)

Columbus (5 games remain, 4 points)

Los Angeles (10 games remain, 4 points)

Detroit (5 games remain, 3 points)

San Jose (8 games remain, 3 points)

Calgary (8 games remain, 1 point)

I will update as games complete when I'm able.

 

[mjd1001]

For me its not about the best chance of drafting #1 overall...but rather making sure that in the 'worst case scenario" they are still in the top 5.   Then again, with this years draft, there isn't much of a difference in talent you are likely to be getting between the first overall pick and 6 or 7.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

For me its not about the best chance of drafting #1 overall...but rather making sure that in the 'worst case scenario" they are still in the top 5.   Then again, with this years draft, there isn't much of a difference in talent you are likely to be getting between the first overall pick and 6 or 7.

[Thorner]

16 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

My prediction is we’ll draft 7th or 8th

If any team can find a way to draft 8th, even when it looks statistically almost impossible, it's the Sabres. 

[Cal Naughton Jr]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Walk me through a scenario not involving a trade that gets us to draft 7th or 8th. 

It was mostly a joke. We just seem to draft right around 7th or 8th a lot

[Hoss]

8 minutes ago, Cal Naughton Jr said:

It was mostly a joke. We just seem to draft right around 7th or 8th a lot

All of us idiots went into a frenzy 😂 

[jsb]

I warned these guys about this stuff in another thread, USE AN EMOJI for this kind of shenanigans. I picked on @Thorny I believe but obviously there's a lot more of his kind around here than even I imagined. 😀

[Cal Naughton Jr]

9 minutes ago, Hoss said:

All of us idiots went into a frenzy 😂 

[kas23]

4 hours ago, I-90 W said:

I’ll never support a tank again, think our fan base learned it’s lesson. 

Sorry to be that guy, but what was this lesson?

[woods-racer]

6 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Sorry to be that guy, but what was this lesson?

Never willfully gut your roster of all NHL caliper players for the hopes of getting a generational player unless this criteria already exists:

 

A competent GM and accompanying staff, such as asst GM and scouting department.

An AHL team stocked with NHL ready players and a great staff that is ready to train all the new players from trading off of your veterans.

A competent front office that knows if either of these 2 conditions are not working the how to and with the power to resolve them.