Another Reason to be Optimistic about Dylan Cozens

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Casey's got 12 assists, including a gorgeous one last night. Cozens has 9.

Production aside, I see Casey doing a good job seeing open teammates and getting them puck, and also creating open space for them with his stickhandling. I have no worries about that area of the game for him. Reinhart is only one doing these things better currently among our forwards. He has 8 assists in his past 20 games and I don't have a problem projecting him as a 30-assist guy going forward (with allowances for small sample size)

I agree Dylan is underrated in this area, or at least he's better than I thought he was when we picked him. He does these things much differently than Casey but should be at least as effective when both mature.

I think what we are seeing is a lot closer to peak Casey than peak Dylan

I mean ya, if Cozens only has 12 in his 4th year post draft, I'd be pretty disappointed

I share the Mittelstadt projection (well, maybe 25) but don't see an issue with Cozens surpassing that 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Thorny

[Weave]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

that was what the "..." was supposed to represent me considering typing...but the "W" is yours for typing it, in the end

Everyone needs a setup man.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I mean ya, if Cozens only has 12 in his 4th year post draft, I'd be pretty disappointed

Yeah, it's like going back to 2017 and imagining Jack Eichel would only have 2 goals in his 6th post-draft season. 😘

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Casey's got 12 assists, including a gorgeous one last night. Cozens has 9.

Production aside, I see Casey doing a good job seeing open teammates and getting them puck, and also creating open space for them with his stickhandling. I have no worries about that area of the game for him. Reinhart is only one doing these things better currently among our forwards. He has 8 assists in his past 20 games and I don't have a problem projecting him as a 30-assist guy going forward (with allowances for small sample size)

I agree Dylan is underrated in this area, or at least he's better than I thought he was when we picked him. He does these things much differently than Casey but should be at least as effective when both mature.

I think what we are seeing is a lot closer to peak Casey than peak Dylan

As well it should be.  He's 2 years older (draft wise, no data on their actual birthdates) & has worked past the situations he'd been prematurely put into his 1st 2 seasons in the league.  

Still see his ceiling as a legit 2C.

But Cozens ceiling is very good 2C / serviceable 1C.  Doubt he gets there, and his play will be stronger in the O zone & less on D, but see an almost O'Reilly as his max ceiling & agree that CuBro is likely his floor.  That SHOULD have him better than Mitts 2-3 seasons from now & he'll flash that on occasion next season, but highly doubt he's ACTUALLY consistently better than Mitts next year.  (Though fully expect that to be quite contentious around here next season. 😉 )

[Thorner]

Call it a hunch but I see a higher offensive ceiling than most. 

7th overall pick

6'3 190 cm

Right-shot centre

75 points in 66 gp, draft year

63 points in 47 gp, post draft year junior

34 points in 63 games, THIRD season post draft

- - - 

7th overall pick

6'3, 191 cm

Right-shot centre

84 points in 68 gp, draft year

85 points in 51 gp, post draft year junior

TBD points in TBD games, THIRD season post draft

- - - 

Top guy has 213 points in his last 205 games played

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Call it a hunch but I see a higher offensive ceiling than most. 

7th overall pick

6'3 190 cm

Right-shot centre

75 points in 66 gp, draft year

63 points in 47 gp, post draft year junior

34 points in 63 games, THIRD season post draft

- - - 

7th overall pick

6'3, 191 cm

Right-shot centre

84 points in 68 gp, draft year

85 points in 51 gp, post draft year junior

TBD points in TBD games, THIRD season post draft

- - - 

Top guy has 213 points in his last 205 games played

Took me forever to get this. I don’t appreciate all the work...

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

I never claimed to be reasonable.  Especially after a day on a barstool.

Lol I checked last seasons stats before I posted.  Did I look up something incorrectly?

Barkov has been a ppg player.  ROR just a little under.

[Ducky]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Call it a hunch but I see a higher offensive ceiling than most. 

7th overall pick

6'3 190 cm

Right-shot centre

75 points in 66 gp, draft year

63 points in 47 gp, post draft year junior

34 points in 63 games, THIRD season post draft

- - - 

7th overall pick

6'3, 191 cm

Right-shot centre

84 points in 68 gp, draft year

85 points in 51 gp, post draft year junior

TBD points in TBD games, THIRD season post draft

- - - 

Top guy has 213 points in his last 205 games played

I think Cozens turns into a bona fide 1C but why aren't you using this year's stats for Cozens? 13 points in 40 games played...209 gp with 132 points.

[Thorner]

11 minutes ago, Ducky said:

I think Cozens turns into a bona fide 1C but why aren't you using this year's stats for Cozens? 13 points in 40 games played...209 gp with 132 points.

Lost me here. 

I didn't compare their numbers against each other this year cause Scheifele didn't play in the NHL his 2nd post draft season, the one Cozens is playing

[Ducky]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

Lost me here. 

I didn't compare their numbers against each other this year cause Scheifele didn't play in the NHL his 2nd post draft season, the one Cozens is playing

I was wondering who you were comparing him to...if Cozens turns out as good as Scheif, consider yourself very lucky.

What you bolded is Cozens' points from the last 3 season including this one. 13 points is not all that impressive and I would bet Mitts did better.

Just looked it up...he was better than Cozens but just barely.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Ducky

[Curt]

16 minutes ago, Ducky said:

I was wondering who you were comparing him to...if Cozens turns out as good as Scheif, consider yourself very lucky.

What you bolded is Cozens' points from the last 3 season including this one. 13 points is not all that impressive and I would bet Mitts did better.

Just looked it up...he was better than Cozens but just barely.

D+2 year , Mittelstadt and Cozens have basically identical points per game, 0.32 vs 0.33.  However, Mitts was extremely sheltered in terms of zone starts that season and Cozens was given no such treatment.

[Ducky]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

D+2 year , Mittelstadt and Cozens have basically identical points per game, 0.32 vs 0.33.  However, Mitts was extremely sheltered in terms of zone starts that season and Cozens was given no such treatment.

That doesn't mean shat to me....especially when Mitts was in the NHL when he shouldn't have been.

Tell me the NHL numbers.

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Ducky said:

That doesn't mean shat to me....especially when Mitts was in the NHL when he shouldn't have been.

Tell me the NHL numbers.

I just told you the NHL numbers.

In their draft+2 seasons, both were rookies in the NHL.

[Ducky]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I just told you the NHL numbers.

In their draft+2 seasons, both were rookies in the NHL.

and Mitts shouldn't have been...evidenced by his demotion the following year.

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Ducky said:

and Mitts shouldn't have been...evidenced by his demotion the following year.

I don’t disagree with that.

Sorry, maybe my point is being lost.  The reason I posted was because you said that you looked it up and Mitts did better than Cozens as a rookie.  My only input was to say that, no Mitts didn’t really do better.

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, Ducky said:

I was wondering who you were comparing him to...if Cozens turns out as good as Scheif, consider yourself very lucky.

What you bolded is Cozens' points from the last 3 season including this one. 13 points is not all that impressive and I would bet Mitts did better.

Just looked it up...he was better than Cozens but just barely.

Always points.

Cozens’ two way game is what’s exciting. Mittelstadt looked lost in his own end as recently as last season. Think Mark Scheifele lost. You know, one of the worst defensive players in the league. We’ll be lucky if Cozens reaches Mark’s offensive production, definitely. But most players in the league could wake up on the wrong side of the bed and put their pants on backwards, hungover, and give a better defensive effort than Mark Scheifele 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Ducky]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Always points.

Cozens’ two way game is what’s exciting. Mittelstadt looked lost in his own end as recently as last season. Think Mark Scheifele lost. You know, one of the worst defensive players in the league. We’ll be lucky if Cozens reaches Mark’s offensive production, definitely. But most players in the league could wake up on the wrong side of the bed and put their pants on backwards, hungover, and give a better defensive effort than Mark Scheifele 

Seeing as you haven't answered my question, I guess you didn't use Cozens' stats from this year because they make him look worse.

Scheif is bad defensively, no question. Look at some of the other players in that group like Cindy, Drai, MdJesus. At 6.125m x 8 years, I don't have too many complaints.

You want these players to play better D, it will come at a cost of their O.

Also, Scheif's wingers (Wheeler and KC) are horribly defensively as well and nobody knows why Maurice plays them all on the same line and matches them against players like McJesus when we have PLD and Lowry on the team...baffling to most.

Mitts will be a good center in this league even though most Sabres' fans were willing to give up on him. 

The biggest problem I see with this franchise/fans is their lack of patience and putting young players into roles they aren't yet ready for...Mitts in the NHL too early and Eichel as captain come to mind off of the top of my head.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Ducky

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Seeing as you haven't answered my question, I guess you didn't use Cozens' stats from this year because they make him look worse.

Scheif is bad defensively, no question. Look at some of the other players in that group like Cindy, Drai, MdJesus. At 6.125m x 8 years, I don't have too many complaints.

You want these players to play better D, it will come at a cost of their O.

Also, Scheif's wingers (Wheeler and KC) are horribly defensively as well and nobody knows why Maurice plays them all on the same line and matches them against players like McJesus when we have PLD and Lowry on the team...baffling to most.

Mitts will be a good center in this league even though most Sabres' fans were willing to give up on him. 

The biggest problem I see with this franchise/fans is their lack of patience and putting young players into roles they aren't yet ready for...Mitts in the NHL too early and Eichel as captain come to mind off of the top of my head.

To be honest I didn't know there was a question and am not sure what you are talking about. I was comparing them year for year - I left out Cozens this year because he's playing in the NHL in his second year post draft, and Scheifele was in junior at this stage - I couldn't compare those numbers year to year 

My point was merely that their draft position, size, position, handedness, and junior stats were similar. There really was no NHL comparison to be made at this point - I simply mentioned Scheifele's latest offensive numbers from the last few seasons because I wanted to illustrate a ceiling for what Dylan's offence could grow into. As mentioned, we'd be very lucky to get it. 

Crosby being bad defensively must be a rib. 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Ducky]

Crosby, McJ and Drai being bad defensively is a fact and you can add P. Kane to that list as well.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Ducky

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Ducky said:

Crosby, McJ and Drai being bad defensively is a fact.

Crosby was 4th in Selke voting in 2018-19!

Edited May 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Crosby, McJ and Drai being bad defensively is a fact and you can add P. Kane to that list as well.

Crosby is not bad defensively.  My goodness, I think far from it.

[Thorner]

Just now, Curt said:

Crosby is not bad defensively.  My goodness, I think far from it.

I should have remembered that anyone that calls him "cindy"  might be caught up on narratives from an age gone by 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Ducky]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Crosby was 4th in Selke voting in 2018-19!

Maybe I am wrong and my bias is showing there but my opinion still stands and the rest of that group are not good defensively but ***** on him all you want, it is evident you don't like Scheif. Not sure why, envious maybe.

Like I said, at 6.125m x 8 years, I don't have too many complaints. Better than a ppg player for the last 4 or 5 years.

[Thorner]

Just now, Ducky said:

Maybe I am wrong and my bias is showing there but my opinion still stands and the rest of that group are not good defensively but ***** on him all you want, it is evident you don't like Scheif. Not sure why, envious maybe.

Like I said, at 6.125m x 8 years, I don't have too many complaints. Better than a ppg player for the last 4 or 5 years.

I dunno what you want from me

I used the guy as a comparison for what I hoped Dylan would become in the offensive end and said we'd be "very lucky" to get it. I said he was bad defensively and you agreed?

Great contract

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Maybe I am wrong and my bias is showing there but my opinion still stands

NHL players seem to disagree with you.  According to a NHLPA poll last season.  Crosby won most complete player, receiving 45% of the vote.

https://www.nhlpa.com/player-poll/2019-20