Forwards 2021-22

[Weave]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As he should.  Asplund. Mitts, Cozens and R2 bring effort every night.  We need as many really effort guys as we can get and it's great that all four have decent or better skill.

Not sure how the pieces come together, but those 4 plus Reinhart, VO and Eichel are 7/9 of my top 9 for next season.  

One note: We have 13 forwards under control or contract for next season right now with Skinner, Thompson, Bjork, Girgensons, Eakin and KO on the roster.  At least two of these guys need to go to make room for a good 4th line center and a physical scoring middle 6 winger. Skinner is returning and I'd like Thompson back as well, but the other 4 can move on.

Boy, you must really enjoy the results we’ve been getting these last 10 games to essentially have the same forward lineup return.  Blech.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Weave said:

Boy, you must really enjoy the results we’ve been getting these last 10 games to essentially have the same forward lineup return.  Blech.

So far this group of kids has been competitive against everyone but the Bruins.  Is it really so outlandish to think that 5 kids will continue to develop with full time roles next season?  Is it really so outlandish to think that this group with the return of Eichel, the addition of a good middle six winger, the development of the kids, the return of Girgensons plus an upgrade at 4c will be even more competitive next season.  Yes they need to be stronger on the puck and more physical as a unit to stay with the Bruins, but they can skate with anyone.  Also the biggest issue with the current group hasn’t been the kids, it’s been guys like Bjork, Cagguila, Reider Skinner and Eakin who do nothing.

You also seem to forget this is a team game and that we have zero goaltending and 5 additional kids playing defense.  The results of the last 10 games aren’t all issues with the offense.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Weave]

A “yes” would have sufficed.

Is it outlandish to think all those things?  No.  Is it prudent to plan as if those things will occur/repeat after a small sample size that included RK level losing? Abso ***** lutely not.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So far this group of kids has been competitive against everyone but the Bruins.  Is it really so outlandish to think that 5 kids will continue to develop with full time roles next season?  Is it really so outlandish to think that this group with the return of Eichel, the addition of a good middle six winger, the development of the kids, the return of Girgensons plus an upgrade at 4c will be even more competitive next season.  Yes they need to be stronger on the puck and more physical as a unit to stay with the Bruins, but they can skate with anyone.  Also the biggest issue with the current group hasn’t been the kids, it’s been guys like Bjork, Cagguila, Reider Skinner and Eakin who do nothing.

You also seem to forget this is a team game and that we have zero goaltending and 5 additional kids playing defense.  The results of the last 10 games aren’t all issues with the offense.

 

We are talking about during Granato's tenure, right? Here are the stats from April 1 to now

Skinner - 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points, Even

Bjork - 1 goal, 3 assists, 4 points, -3

Caggiula - 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 points, -7

Rieder - 0 goals, 1 assist,  1 point -7 

Eakin - 0 goals, 1 assist,  1 point, -1

 

It's funny that those are the players you lump Skinner in with when he has 33% more points in that frame than all of them...combined. 

- - - 

Reinhart (playing on a line with Skinner) and Mittelstadt blow Skinner's production out of the water.

Thompson, Asplund, and Olofsson have 1 more point.

Cozens and Ruotsalainen have less

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Thorny

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

A “yes” would have sufficed.

Is it outlandish to think all those things?  No.  Is it prudent to plan as if those things will occur/repeat after a small sample size that included RK level losing? Abso ***** lutely not.

Actually the prudent way to run a franchise properly is to develop your own talent.  For the first time in a decade we actually have a team of home grown talent and they are vastly superior to the big name acquisitions and retreads KA (and the GMs before him) added to this roster.  
 

I think we are also getting beyond the small sample size argument.  I believe we are over 20 games (or 25% of a regular season)since RK was sent packing.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

We are talking about during Granato's tenure, right? Here are the stats from April 1 to now

Skinner - 3 goals, 5 assists, 8 points, Even

Bjork - 1 goal, 3 assists, 4 points, -3

Caggiula - 0 goals, 0 assists, 0 points, -7

Rieder - 0 goals, 1 assist,  1 point -7 

Eakin - 0 goals, 1 assist,  1 point, -1

 

It's funny that those are the players you lump Skinner in with when he has 33% more points in that frame than all of them...combined. 

- - - 

Reinhart (playing on a line with Skinner) and Mittelstadt blow Skinner's production out of the water.

Thompson, Asplund, and Olofsson have 1 more point.

Cozens and Ruotsalainen have less

 

Do you think 3 goals from Skinner is good production? He is being paid to be our top goal scorer and he has less goals then all the guys I mentioned including R2.  Scoring 8 points in his last 20 or so games is awful.  That’s a 30 PT season.  That’s contributing virtually nothing for a guy playing on the top line with a center who is on fire.  

 

[mjd1001]

I'm thinking a '4th' line of Okposo, Girgensons, and Cozens isn't a bad place to start (bottom up of course)

Your 3 other centers (with no trades) are Eichel, Mitts, and Sam.

So from there you need 4 wingers:  Olofsson and Thompson would be 2 of them.  Skinner you are stuck with as the 3rd.  The other guy? That is the one big move I'd make...I want a guy with both speed and a physical edge (The Evander Kane version the Sabres traded for a few years ago would do wonders for this team now)

That is assuming everyone is re-signed and no trades.  Will that forward lineup win you the Cup?  Probably not. but if Eichel returns to form and Sam plays Center like he is now...and you get a small step-up from the young guys it might/should get you in the playoffs.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do you think 3 goals from Skinner is good production? He is being paid to be our top goal scorer and he has less goals then all the guys I mentioned including R2.  Scoring 8 points in his last 20 or so games is awful.  That’s a 30 PT season.  That’s contributing virtually nothing for a guy playing on the top line with a center who is on fire.  

 

Move the goalposts, I don’t care anymore. I’m just listing the stats. 

“Under Granato! Under Granato!” Skinner has performed significantly better statistically compared to the players you lumped him in with, 

under Granato 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm thinking a '4th' line of Okposo, Girgensons, and Cozens isn't a bad place to start (bottom up of course)

Your 3 other centers (with no trades) are Eichel, Mitts, and Sam.

So from there you need 4 wingers:  Olofsson and Thompson would be 2 of them.  Skinner you are stuck with as the 3rd.  The other guy? That is the one big move I'd make...I want a guy with both speed and a physical edge (The Evander Kane version the Sabres traded for a few years ago would do wonders for this team now)

That is assuming everyone is re-signed and no trades.  Will that forward lineup win you the Cup?  Probably not. but if Eichel returns to form and Sam plays Center like he is now...and you get a small step-up from the young guys it might/should get you in the playoffs.

I would rather have Cozens play RW with Eichel or Reinhart, if 9,23,37 are the Top Three Centers. He is too talented to play 8-12 minutes of 5v5 Time on the 4th Line.

[GASabresIUFAN]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Move the goalposts, I don’t care anymore. I’m just listing the stats. 

“Under Granato! Under Granato!” Skinner has performed significantly better statistically compared to the players you lumped him in with, 

under Granato 

I agree he has been better,  but he couldn’t have been worse.  Yes he is better then Reider, Bjork and Caggiula but he is paid to be a top producer and his production is marginal for a 3rd line player.  

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm thinking a '4th' line of Okposo, Girgensons, and Cozens isn't a bad place to start (bottom up of course)

Your 3 other centers (with no trades) are Eichel, Mitts, and Sam.

So from there you need 4 wingers:  Olofsson and Thompson would be 2 of them.  Skinner you are stuck with as the 3rd.  The other guy? That is the one big move I'd make...I want a guy with both speed and a physical edge (The Evander Kane version the Sabres traded for a few years ago would do wonders for this team now)

That is assuming everyone is re-signed and no trades.  Will that forward lineup win you the Cup?  Probably not. but if Eichel returns to form and Sam plays Center like he is now...and you get a small step-up from the young guys it might/should get you in the playoffs.

 

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

I would rather have Cozens play RW with Eichel or Reinhart, if 9,23,37 are the Top Three Centers. He is too talented to play 8-12 minutes of 5v5 Time on the 4th Line.

Have said it before recently, and it really goes against my base philosophy that in general you maximize your overall output by maximizing your best player; but really am curious how it would work out giving Eichel Girgensons & Okposo if they don't bring in an extra scoring center (which my preference would be to bringing in a scoring winger like many want) or Z & Cozens if they do get another C to be between Ruotsalainen & Bjork/ other.

They'd have 4 scoring lines that way.  PK & playing against teams with a really good top line line the Bergeron line or the MacKinnon line could be a disaster; but if they have real honest to goodness NHL goaltending, it would be fun to watch & MIGHT actually be playoff caliber.

Either way, it would be fun to watch, & it could be a tough matchup for most teams as there aren't many that try to go with a firewagon brand of hockey (at least outside of Canada, 😉 ).  It also could result in some 3rd period dominance as the ice time would be pretty evenly divided in the 1st 2 periods & lines could get stacked in the 3rd if necessary. 

Probably wouldn't work, but it is interesting IMHO. 

[Marvin]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Have said it before recently, and it really goes against my base philosophy that in general you maximize your overall output by maximizing your best player; but really am curious how it would work out giving Eichel Girgensons & Okposo if they don't bring in an extra scoring center (which my preference would be to bringing in a scoring winger like many want) or Z & Cozens if they do get another C to be between Ruotsalainen & Bjork/ other.

They'd have 4 scoring lines that way.  PK & playing against teams with a really good top line line the Bergeron line or the MacKinnon line could be a disaster; but if they have real honest to goodness NHL goaltending, it would be fun to watch & MIGHT actually be playoff caliber.

Either way, it would be fun to watch, & it could be a tough matchup for most teams as there aren't many that try to go with a firewagon brand of hockey (at least outside of Canada, 😉 ).  It also could result in some 3rd period dominance as the ice time would be pretty evenly divided in the 1st 2 periods & lines could get stacked in the 3rd if necessary. 

Probably wouldn't work, but it is interesting IMHO. 

We are on the same page -- although I personally think that Seattle will take Girgensons regardless of who else we expose.

Protecting Cozens a bit to help him develop his game appeals to me.  Depending on how the wingers shake out for Eichel, Reinhart, and Mittlestadt, a 4th line of Girgensons-Cozens-Okposo could be very effective.  That is is no ordinary 4th line.  Assuming I am correct and Girgensons is chosen by Seattle, then we could satisfy Skinner haters and Skinner supporters by putting Skinner-Cozens-Okposo as a nominal 4th line.

As we head into the off-season, we have, including FAs:

Skinner-Eichel-Bjork

Ruotsalainen-Reinhart-Olofsson

Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson

Girgensons-Cozens-Okposo

Eakin-Sheahan-Caggiula

You can object that Cozens has no business on the 4th line, etc., etc.  Ask yourself now: what changes do you want to make?  I would like a greater variety of styles in these 12 plus the 3 behind them.

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

We are on the same page -- although I personally think that Seattle will take Girgensons regardless of who else we expose.

Protecting Cozens a bit to help him develop his game appeals to me.  Depending on how the wingers shake out for Eichel, Reinhart, and Mittlestadt, a 4th line of Girgensons-Cozens-Okposo could be very effective.  That is is no ordinary 4th line.  Assuming I am correct and Girgensons is chosen by Seattle, then we could satisfy Skinner haters and Skinner supporters by putting Skinner-Cozens-Okposo as a nominal 4th line.

As we head into the off-season, we have, including FAs:

Skinner-Eichel-Bjork

Ruotsalainen-Reinhart-Olofsson

Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson

Girgensons-Cozens-Okposo

Eakin-Sheahan-Caggiula

You can object that Cozens has no business on the 4th line, etc., etc.  Ask yourself now: what changes do you want to make?  I would like a greater variety of styles in these 12 plus the 3 behind them.

I can pretty much guarantee it's 11 straight years no playoffs if we enter into the season with Bjork and Ruotsalainen in the top 6

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

We are on the same page -- although I personally think that Seattle will take Girgensons regardless of who else we expose.

Protecting Cozens a bit to help him develop his game appeals to me.  Depending on how the wingers shake out for Eichel, Reinhart, and Mittlestadt, a 4th line of Girgensons-Cozens-Okposo could be very effective.  That is is no ordinary 4th line.  Assuming I am correct and Girgensons is chosen by Seattle, then we could satisfy Skinner haters and Skinner supporters by putting Skinner-Cozens-Okposo as a nominal 4th line.

As we head into the off-season, we have, including FAs:

Skinner-Eichel-Bjork

Ruotsalainen-Reinhart-Olofsson

Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson

Girgensons-Cozens-Okposo

Eakin-Sheahan-Caggiula

You can object that Cozens has no business on the 4th line, etc., etc.  Ask yourself now: what changes do you want to make?  I would like a greater variety of styles in these 12 plus the 3 behind them.

If they are going to have him at C this coming season, my preference for Cozens would be 3 or 4C.

Bjork would need to be upgraded, & really hate the idea of Skinner & Eichel, but overall that's kind of the thinking.

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I can pretty much guarantee it's 11 straight years no playoffs if we enter into the season with Bjork and Ruotsalainen in the top 6

This isn’t aging well 🙂    Jk 

 

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

This isn’t aging well 🙂    Jk 

 

Yes, Bjork scoring twice today proves he should be in our top 6 next year, I totally agree. jk 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I can pretty much guarantee it's 11 straight years no playoffs if we enter into the season with Bjork and Ruotsalainen in the top 6

I think Ruotsalainen might be a better forward than Olofsson 

[GASabresIUFAN]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Ruotsalainen might be a better forward than Olofsson 

Not a better shooter, but a better overall player.

[Marvin]

I just put that up there so that we can see what we are staring at going into the summer.  My bias is to have 4 lines whom I could throw over the boards with alacrity; otherwise Eichel has someone other than Bjork on his wing.  In real life, though:

• I expect Girgensons to be taken by Seattle.
• I expect Eakin and Caggiula to be in Rochester.
• I would like 2 forwards in the top 9 swapped out for different styles.
• Many would put Cozens in the top 6.

That makes the line-up something like:

Skinner-Eichel-Cozens

Ruotsalainen-Reinhart-Olofsson

Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson

Bjork-Sheahan-Okposo

I would want to swap out a couple of forwards for a greater variety of styles among linemates -- more Girgensons's style.

[Crusader1969]

20 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

This isn’t aging well 🙂    Jk 

 

I usually hate predicting trades BUT if Tkachuk really needs a change of scenery, I’m giving up my 2022 top 10 protected 1st and 2nd picks, Ryan Johnson and Oloffson. 
too much or too little ??

And I’m not sure how the season starts but it ends 

Skinner Eichel Tkachuk 

Bjork Samson Cozens

Asplund Mitts Tage

Girgs / beniers  R2.  Quinn / okposo 

 

 

 

 

 

   

Edited May 5, 2021 by Crusader1969