Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Flashsabre]

Some serious underrating of Dach. He was ready to tear the WJCs apart with Cozens before the wrist injury. 6’4 power centre in the Getzlaf mould.  I would take him in a second in a Chicago deal.

I like all the young guys listed. With Rossi, they passed on him. Was it because they loved Quinn more but still liked Rossi or did they pass because they had issues with him?  I don’t think Byfield is an option, I would be shocked if L.A. moved him but if L.A. Feels the pressure to get a superstar today then maybe.  All the other guys would be good pieces to reset around.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Some serious underrating of Dach. He was ready to tear the WJCs apart with Cozens before the wrist injury. 6’4 power centre in the Getzlaf mould.  I would take him in a second in a Chicago deal.

I like all the young guys listed. With Rossi, they passed on him. Was it because they loved Quinn more but still liked Rossi or did they pass because they had issues with him?  I don’t think Byfield is an option, I would be shocked if L.A. moved him but if L.A. Feels the pressure to get a superstar today then maybe.  All the other guys would be good pieces to reset around.

Don't read into Dach at 9 too much. He's easy to move up to 6 or maybe even 5. It just has to do with my own likes and Beniers to Dach is a fairly close thing. 

[dudacek]

59 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Adams and Karmanos need to decide What’s most valuable to them.

3OA, Comtois, Perrault plus another piece 

Dach, 12th OA and Reichel. 

 

That is a very interesting choice.

 

The "value" in terms of tiers is very close, IMO.

Dach was a #3 pick who has generally lived up to that billing but hasn't proven himself to be more than say Dylan Strome. I think both elements still have a "mystery box" element, but the "nearly here" and 1st-line centre projection elements favour Dach.

I don't think people tend to appreciate how Comtois is the best player of this bunch right now. He has proven the most in the NHL and is still young and experienced enough to have upside. I don't think people consider him in terms of being worth pick #12 but he is already at the level of what an average pick 12 becomes.

Personally, I'd pick Reichel, but in terms of value, he and Perrault are almost impossible to separate.

So if the Ducks are offer a 4th piece, that is very relevant

 

In terms of what I like (which seems to be in line with what Adams talks), I like the Ducks offer.

I covet a player like Comtois, I covet a player like Eklund, I covet a player like Beniers. I am a little worried that Kirby Dach is too passive a player and personality to be a 1C. I think he could be a Tyler Myers type who always leaves you looking for more.

That said, the talent and the chemistry with Cozens is very tempting.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

That is a very interesting choice.

 

The "value" in terms of tiers is very close, IMO.

Dach was a #3 pick who has generally lived up to that billing but hasn't proven himself to be more than say Dylan Strome. I think both elements still have a "mystery box" element, but the "nearly here" and 1st-line centre projection elements favour Dach.

I don't think people tend to appreciate how Comtois is the best player of this bunch right now. He has proven the most in the NHL and is still young and experienced enough to have upside. I don't think people consider him in terms of being worth pick #12 but he is already at the level of what an average pick 12 becomes.

Personally, I'd pick Reichel, but in terms of value, he and Perrault are almost impossible to separate.

So if the Ducks are offer a 4th piece, that is very relevant

 

In terms of what I like (which seems to be in line with what Adams talks), I like the Ducks offer.

I covet a player like Comtois, I covet a player like Eklund, I covet a player like Beniers. I am a little worried that Kirby Dach is too passive a player and personality to be a 1C. I think he could be a Tyler Myers type who always leaves you looking for more.

That said, the talent and the chemistry with Cozens is very tempting.

That's my biggest concern with Dach. 

[inkman]

33 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Wow didn't realize you had Eklund first this year

e5

[Flashsabre]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

That is a very interesting choice.

 

The "value" in terms of tiers is very close, IMO.

Dach was a #3 pick who has generally lived up to that billing but hasn't proven himself to be more than say Dylan Strome. I think both elements still have a "mystery box" element, but the "nearly here" and 1st-line centre projection elements favour Dach.

I don't think people tend to appreciate how Comtois is the best player of this bunch right now. He has proven the most in the NHL and is still young and experienced enough to have upside. I don't think people consider him in terms of being worth pick #12 but he is already at the level of what an average pick 12 becomes.

Personally, I'd pick Reichel, but in terms of value, he and Perrault are almost impossible to separate.

So if the Ducks are offer a 4th piece, that is very relevant

 

In terms of what I like (which seems to be in line with what Adams talks), I like the Ducks offer.

I covet a player like Comtois, I covet a player like Eklund, I covet a player like Beniers. I am a little worried that Kirby Dach is too passive a player and personality to be a 1C. I think he could be a Tyler Myers type who always leaves you looking for more.

That said, the talent and the chemistry with Cozens is very tempting.

I mean when has Dach had a chance to prove it?  He was rushed to the NHL and played really well in the playoffs. This year he was ready to dominate the WJCs, has a freak wrist injury that derailed his season. If he had played last year in juniors like he should have he would have put up 80-90 points. This season was a complete injury write off.  
 

why are people acting like he is a 24 year old burnout?

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Flashsabre said:

I mean when has Dach had a chance to prove it?  He was rushed to the NHL and played really well in the playoffs. This year he was ready to dominate the WJCs, has a freak wrist injury that derailed his season. If he had played last year in juniors like he should have he would have put up 80-90 points. This season was a complete injury write off.  
 

why are people acting like he is a 24 year old burnout?

I don't see anyone acting like that. 

[Flashsabre]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't see anyone acting like that. 

Yes, reading back I see I misread/misunderstood a couple passages. All is good, carry on.😀

[Randall Flagg]

54 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

How about Scandella for a 4th from the Habs, who almost immediately flipped him for a 2nd and a 4th?

That one was pretty close to a firing offense.

Never mind the fact that it took Joki a year and a half to get back to the form he had playing with Marco, the best pairing on a team still trying to right its ship and stay in/near the playoffs when the trade happened.

4 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Yes, reading back I see I misread/misunderstood a couple passages. All is good, carry on.😀

I certainly wouldn't pout if Dach came back in the deal. I just feel a little better about other prospects 

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

LA is not out - And if anyone can afford to lose center prospects its them.    Would they risk Eichel going to Anaheim ? 

Well nobody's really "out" and it's all just rumours but there's a bunch of LA insider type posts saying they're out or backed off etc. 

18 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Never mind the fact that it took Joki a year and a half to get back to the form he had playing with Marco, the best pairing on a team still trying to right its ship and stay in/near the playoffs when the trade happened.

I certainly wouldn't pout if Dach came back in the deal. I just feel a little better about other prospects 

I think Dach is a great player and he'd be a wonderful pick up in any deal.

Had to laugh though, I saw one Chicago site putting Nylander in their package to us. Too funny. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

If Adams doesn't trade Eichel soon after everything that's gone down, a segment of the fan base will be upset with him for waiting too long to trade him. On the other hand if he does trade them and doesn't get a huge return, a different segment of the fan base will be showing up at the arena with torches and pitchforks.

You're not wrong, but I don't think the fanbase matters to them. There will be some on the get him out of here side and others on the don't trade our best player get more good players and never the twain shall they meet. the verdict either way is if we start to win after the deal or non deal. Then the other side of the fanbase jumps back aboard the bandwagon. 

Personally I just don't see how the team can function in a healthy team manner if your star player wants out or has issues with the club over medical concerns etc. That attitude has to leak in and it can be toxic for a new young core that you're trying to build with. Last thing you want is for these young guys to watch the toxicity and start making their own future exit plans when they hit rfa status etc.  We need a positive team attitude. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Gabrielor said:

Columbus never had a chance, so no concern there. There's no realistic package I would've liked from them.

We really should be finding a way to get Merzlikins off them before the expansion draft though. Doesn't have to be the Eichel deal but we have a spot open to protect a goalie and that's the prime candidate as they will lose him to the Kraken if they don't deal him somewhere. 

[thewookie1]

8 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Never mind the fact that it took Joki a year and a half to get back to the form he had playing with Marco, the best pairing on a team still trying to right its ship and stay in/near the playoffs when the trade happened.

I will always wonder why Botts didn't trade Risto + a 4th for Ehlers

Why would a GM in any circumstance, go into a season with 4 LHDs and 5 RHDs after literally acquiring another RHD without having a general strategy to divest from one of the RHDs? Then choose to trade Scandella over a month early while still within easy distance of a playoff spot to a team we were chasing the spot with. It still completely baffles me.

We very likely go to the playoffs last year with almost any differing scenario including acquiring Ehlers or merely keeping Scandella. 

 

Where Tim Murray played "all in" on every hand; Botterill seemed to think he was playing Go Fish

Adams thus far has done mediocre in trades. Johansson for Staal was a great trade, and made great sense. Staal however chose to give little to nothing each game which sullied the trade. He then dealt him for a 3rd & 5th rounder which was a solid return seeing as Johansson likely wouldn't of fetched even that. Now Montreal goes on a run and the picks get effectively trashed.

Montour was a shrug.

Hall was the only bad trade he made thus far and that may have had other circumstances behind it.

In the end his likely trade of Eichel will decide his fate; can he find a way to extract as much value out of Eichel as conceivably possible or does he trip over his own feet like Botts did with ROR. No Eichel trade will satisfy us entirely as we will lose the best player in the deal and the whole purpose of much of our suffering in the tank years. However there is a great deal of difference between Adams acquiring 3OA, Zegras and Comtois and Adams acquiring Rakell, Henrique, and a JAG prospect. The former would inspire sadness but have genuine hope stemming from it where as the latter would make me want to curl up in a ball and cry.

[Flashsabre]

9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

We really should be finding a way to get Merzlikins off them before the expansion draft though. Doesn't have to be the Eichel deal but we have a spot open to protect a goalie and that's the prime candidate as they will lose him to the Kraken if they don't deal him somewhere. 

Elvis is exempt from the Expansion Draft so they have no need to move a goalie.

[Eleven]

14 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

You're not wrong, but I don't think the fanbase matters to them.

A GM who bases decisions on the fanbase is a bad GM anyway.  (I think that's where you were going with this.)

[SDBillsfan]

One player who I think is being overlooked is Jamie Drysdale. If the Ducks stand firm on Zegras but offer up Drysdale, 3OA and another solid prospect, I think it should be considered. Drysdale is a very high- end D-man who looked great last year after being called up from San Diego and looked every part the ascending NHL star that Zegras will be. Then you could draft any two of Berniers, Eklund or Power. I personally would then go with the two forwards, because I think Drysdale is every bit the prospect that Power is. Thoughts?

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

If you were doing a list of the dumbest trades in NHL history that one has to make the list. It's the type of trade that sounds like a sketch comedy routine except it actually happened.

Hehehe...  It'd be so much a better joke if it hadn't been our GM. There's a reason our franchise is the laughingstock of the hockey world these days.

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Also Jason traded the FIRST pick of the 6th round for the next years sixth, with the Leafs, a team that certainly wasn't about to finish last.

I don't think JBott gets enough flak for this trade. He should be pilloried for this action. I don't know if JBot understood the Concept of Trades in the NHL. He traded the first 6th for a 6th with a team that was in Cup-contention mode (or at the least a certifiable playoff roster). It doesn't matter if it's the 6th round and therefore the stakes were low. Let's apply the same concept to this year's first round: "Hey Toronto, we'll trade you our 2021 1st (first overall) for your 1st pick in 2022. Come on...". What in the absolute hell?

The other thing is his trading-up/trading-down garbage. In the NFL draft, you're picking 22 year-olds who've essentially been playing in your league's sole minor league. You can trade down and accumulate cheaper/controlled players you know will turn into backups/special teamers. In the NHL -- it's a crapshoot after the 2nd round (and really, starting late in the 1st). So, more picks is better in the low rounds, but it's not like the NFL where you can take a guy who's slipping down into the 5th round because he had a) an off-field transgression or more likely b) a late-season injury so you're essentially redshirting his rookie season. That happens all the time. In the NHL, you're taking an 18 year-old prospect who's years from anything.

But! The best part of this JBot early-6-to-late-6 trade is then he traded that pick to move UP INTO THE 5th ROUND the following year. I can't all-caps that enough. We traded the 2018 TOR 6th (177), and our 2018 BUF 7th (191) to move up to 143rd to take Cederqvist, who's maybe a 15% chance to even play a single NHL game. If you like him that much, wait until 160 and take Cederqvist instead of Rousek (although Rousek was more highly rated and projects better currently, too). Better yet, wait until 177 and take Cederqvist with that pick. It's silly fun.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Or if their medical staff looked at Eichel's imaging and said..... eh..... no.

That is an excellent question. Have any teams in the Eichel derby seen his medical files, talked to any of Jack's doctors or Jack personally? You'd think someone would break that kind of news.

Edited June 25, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

You're not wrong, but I don't think the fanbase matters to them. There will be some on the get him out of here side and others on the don't trade our best player get more good players and never the twain shall they meet. the verdict either way is if we start to win after the deal or non deal. Then the other side of the fanbase jumps back aboard the bandwagon. 

Personally I just don't see how the team can function in a healthy team manner if your star player wants out or has issues with the club over medical concerns etc. That attitude has to leak in and it can be toxic for a new young core that you're trying to build with. Last thing you want is for these young guys to watch the toxicity and start making their own future exit plans when they hit rfa status etc.  We need a positive team attitude. 

That is the one issue with the 'if you don't get what you want just don't trade him' theory.

If you don't get the offer you want and decide to hold on to him, what then?  The situation you bring up will probably occur.  If Adams/management really wants Jack out of here, but you don't move him...doesn't that derail the plans you have for what you envision as your 'new' leadership core?  Will guys like Dahlin, Cozens, Mitts...will they really take control of the team and talk in the locker room if Jack is still here (especially if it is a disgruntled Jack?)

The only other option is, you need to have a conversation with Eichel SOMETHING like this:  "Jack, you are under contract for  a while here.  You are a big part of this team but not the ONLY part of this team that matters.  You might be the best player on this team now, but we aren't making decisions that revolve around you...we ARE making decisions where you are a key part of the team but everything doesn't run through  you.  You will be treated (and payed) like one of the best players on this team, no more, no less."  If you want out of Buffalo, you have to get on the ice, put up numbers, be a great teammate to your current teammates and be a 'good soldier'. It'll make it easier for us to trade you"  I'm not sure if that conversation happened already or not....or maybe it happened in previous years and Jack is beyond it at this point.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I mean when has Dach had a chance to prove it?  He was rushed to the NHL and played really well in the playoffs. This year he was ready to dominate the WJCs, has a freak wrist injury that derailed his season. If he had played last year in juniors like he should have he would have put up 80-90 points. This season was a complete injury write off.  
 

why are people acting like he is a 24 year old burnout?

If that’s what you got from my post, that certainly isn’t what I think.

I see him as a top-tier prospect, whose game isn’t exactly what I prefer - very similar to Byfield.

The centrepiece-level prospects in rough order for me:

• Lafreniere
• Zegras 
• 3OA
• Dach Byfield Drysdale
• Turcotte Boldy Rossi Krebs Kakko
• 5OA

Rossi might be ahead of Dach and Byfield if he hadn’t had the season he did.

5th is there (and vaults ahead of the players) only if Beniers or Eklund is available.

Edited June 25, 2021 by dudacek

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If that’s what you got from my post, that certainly isn’t what I think.

I see him as a top-tier prospect, whose game isn’t exactly what I prefer - very similar to Byfield.

The centrepiece-level prospects in rough order for me:

• Lafreniere
• Zegras 
• 3OA
• Dach Byfield Drysdale
• Turcotte Boldy Rossi Krebs Kakko
• 5OA

Rossi might be ahead of Dach and Byfield if he hadn’t had the season he did.

5th is there (and vaults ahead of the players) only if Beniers or Eklund is available.

Byfield has to be above 3OA in my opinion, ranking him with Dach and Drysdale surprises me

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, WildCard said:

Byfield has to be above 3OA in my opinion, ranking him with Dach and Drysdale surprises me

I see him as almost identical to Dach, big, skilled but lacking the alpha dog quality.

I know there is a huge age gap that explains it, but Dach was so much better than Byfield at the WJCs.

I know that’s not the be-all, but the fact Byfield was just a face in the crowd there two years in a row nags at me. 

[rakish]

Ok, @WildCard, I spent a couple hours trying to answer your 2 questions, how do potential returning Eichel trade fruit compare and how do this years draft fruit fit in to previous drafts. So I took my model which is based on eliteprospects data (no PP split) and jammed in the pick224 data which splits out the even strength points, I used EV P1/gp. I couldn't use everyone as pick224 does not go back very far for say Liiga, but I think this gives you an idea. This solidifies my belief that we're not looking at a weak draft, it's just not very deep.

1 CONNOR MCDAVID OHL 1746
2 Jack Hughes (F)USDP 18 1531 
3 JACK EICHEL NCAA 1444 
4 Dylan Guenther***WHL 1320
5 Quinton Byfield OHL 1289
6 Seth Jarvis WHL 1192 
7 William Eklund***SHL 1125
8 Marco Rossi OHL 1014
9 Matthew Beniers***NCAA 1012 
10 Andrei Svechnikov (F)OHL 976 
11 Alexis LafrenièreQMJHL 960 
12 DYLAN STROME OHL 819 
13 MITCHELL MARNER OHL 760 
14 CODY GLASS WHL 741 
15 PIERRE-LUC DUBOIS QMJHL 662 
16 Lucas Raymond SHL 640 
17 NICO HISCHIER QMJHL 630 
18 Trevor Zegras (F)USDP 18 605
19 Kirby Dach (F)WHL 585
20 Brady Tkachuk (F)NCAA 563
21 NOLAN PATRICK WHL 557 
22 Dylan Cozens (F)WHL 539
23 Jack Hughes (F)USHL 502
24 Trevor Zegras (F)USHL 475
25 Peyton Krebs (F)WHL 360

[LGR4GM]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I see him as almost identical to Dach, big, skilled but lacking the alpha dog quality.

I know there is a huge age gap that explains it, but Dach was so much better than Byfield at the WJCs.

I know that’s not the be-all, but the fact Byfield was just a face in the crowd there two years in a row nags at me. 

But Dach didn't play in the WJC because injury

Also Dach is 19 months older than Byfield. So you're looking at Byfield in the WJC as a 17 and 18 year old. 

I don't love Dach and I have Questions on Byfield.

2 minutes ago, rakish said:

Ok, @WildCard, I spent a couple hours trying to answer your 2 questions, how do potential returning Eichel trade fruit compare and how do this years draft fruit fit in to previous drafts. So I took my model which is based on eliteprospects data (no PP split) and jammed in the pick224 data which splits out the even strength points, I used EV P1/gp. I couldn't use everyone as pick224 does not go back very far for say Liiga, but I think this gives you an idea. This solidifies my belief that we're not looking at a weak draft, it's just not very deep.

1 CONNOR MCDAVID OHL 1746
2 Jack Hughes (F)USDP 18 1531 
3 JACK EICHEL NCAA 1444 
4 Dylan Guenther***WHL 1320
5 Quinton Byfield OHL 1289
6 Seth Jarvis WHL 1192 
7 William Eklund***SHL 1125
8 Marco Rossi OHL 1014
9 Matthew Beniers***NCAA 1012 
10 Andrei Svechnikov (F)OHL 976 
11 Alexis LafrenièreQMJHL 960 
12 DYLAN STROME OHL 819 
13 MITCHELL MARNER OHL 760 
14 CODY GLASS WHL 741 
15 PIERRE-LUC DUBOIS QMJHL 662 
16 Lucas Raymond SHL 640 
17 NICO HISCHIER QMJHL 630 
18 Trevor Zegras (F)USDP 18 605
19 Kirby Dach (F)WHL 585
20 Brady Tkachuk (F)NCAA 563
21 NOLAN PATRICK WHL 557 
22 Dylan Cozens (F)WHL 539
23 Jack Hughes (F)USHL 502
24 Trevor Zegras (F)USHL 475
25 Peyton Krebs (F)WHL 360

Is that Seth Jarvis I see way up there... it is! 

Edited June 25, 2021 by LGR4GM

[rakish]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Is that Seth Jarvis I see way up there... it is! 

I erred last year with my draft board. I think I believed that since there was no way Rossi was going to be there at 8, I didn't really need to think about whether I wanted Rossi or Jarvis.