Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[LGR4GM]

Zemgus Girgensons was playing 19minutes a night and shot 6% above his career average the year he had as many goals as Comtois. Comtois played 4 less minutes a night and has a track record of being a better shot. Idk, I suppose they could be similar but a career 8.4% shooter compared to a guy right now at 17% career doesn't seem very similar to me. Comtois has a + corsi at 22 something that Zemgus has never done. Comtois starts more in the offensive zone compared to Zemgus. 

Idk, I don't really see it but I suppose it is possible that Comtois is a better Zemgus. 

[pi2000]

21 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Zemgus Girgensons was playing 19minutes a night and shot 6% above his career average the year he had as many goals as Comtois. Comtois played 4 less minutes a night and has a track record of being a better shot. Idk, I suppose they could be similar but a career 8.4% shooter compared to a guy right now at 17% career doesn't seem very similar to me. Comtois has a + corsi at 22 something that Zemgus has never done. Comtois starts more in the offensive zone compared to Zemgus. 

Idk, I don't really see it but I suppose it is possible that Comtois is a better Zemgus. 

Aren't most NHL players a "better Zemgus"?

[Marvin]

When Girgensons was drafted, I has pegged him as a target at around 15.  I liked his grit, leadership, and willingness to learn.  But I also thought he needed seasoning in the AHL.  He, like Ristolainen, was rushed because of The Tank.  That in turn harmed his development.  Then we hired Bylsma, who did his usual thing of undermining youth like Zemgus and Larry (even worse) to coddle mediocre veterans.

IMHO, the Girgensons we saw in The Tank Season was no mirage, but circumstances prevented him from becoming more than he is.

[LabattBlue]

37 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

When Girgensons was drafted, I has pegged him as a target at around 15.  I liked his grit, leadership, and willingness to learn.  But I also thought he needed seasoning in the AHL.  He, like Ristolainen, was rushed because of The Tank.  That in turn harmed his development.  Then we hired Bylsma, who did his usual thing of undermining youth like Zemgus and Larry (even worse) to coddle mediocre veterans.

IMHO, the Girgensons we saw in The Tank Season was no mirage, but circumstances prevented him from becoming more than he is.

Sorry, but I don’t ever buy “player X was ruined because he was rushed to the NHL”.  There is no way to proof this.  Maybe they are just mediocre players who were going to have the same end result even if they had spent 1-2 years in the AHL. 

[pi2000]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Sorry, but I don’t ever buy “player X was ruined because he was rushed to the NHL”.  There is no way to proof this.  Maybe they are just mediocre players who were going to have the same end result even if they had spent 1-2 years in the AHL. 

We'll never know.    

It depends on the player, they're all different.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Agree.

D

[kas23]

48 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Sorry, but I don’t ever buy “player X was ruined because he was rushed to the NHL”.  There is no way to proof this.  Maybe they are just mediocre players who were going to have the same end result even if they had spent 1-2 years in the AHL. 

I would usually agree with this. It depends though. I don’t think rushing a player ruins a players skill trajectory, but it could mess with their mindset and subsequent motivation and ultimate success. 
 

If the proper mentorship isn’t in place, I can see this causing major developmental problems. These are kids who have excelled at every level of hockey they have entered. To suddenly get to the NHL and be completely schooled has to be demoralizing. I think we can all agree that Mitts was inappropriately rushed to the NHL. I can’t say this “ruined” him though. 

[Flashsabre]

A poster on another board posted this. I think Adams is on the right track and if teams are still involved then that is a good sign.

 

“Some Insider at the athletic got a quote from an anonymous nhl executive that the asking price for eichel was 6 pieces”

Top six under 24 player F
top 4 Under 24 player D 
1 Bluechip prospect / 2 mid prospects 
1st round

 

[WildCard]

25 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

A poster on another board posted this. I think Adams is on the right track and if teams are still involved then that is a good sign.

 

“Some Insider at the athletic got a quote from an anonymous nhl executive that the asking price for eichel was 6 pieces”

Top six under 24 player F
top 4 Under 24 player D 
1 Bluechip prospect / 2 mid prospects 
1st round

If that's true then good

[Curt]

30 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

A poster on another board posted this. I think Adams is on the right track and if teams are still involved then that is a good sign.

 

“Some Insider at the athletic got a quote from an anonymous nhl executive that the asking price for eichel was 6 pieces”

Top six under 24 player F
top 4 Under 24 player D 
1 Bluechip prospect / 2 mid prospects 
1st round

 

This doesn’t pass the sniff test.

Where is this quote?  The Athletic is a news organization.  If they are getting juicy quotes like this, they are going to get it published.

[Brawndo]

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Paywall alert.

Any way you, or someone, could summarize?

[Brawndo]

He has the the return as 3OA, Gibson, Comtois and Perrault 

[Flashsabre]

6 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Paywall alert.

Any way you, or someone, could summarize?

You are not going to like it.😀 Chad is in the “No one will give a top prospect for Jack” mindset.

[Flashsabre]

22 minutes ago, Curt said:

This doesn’t pass the sniff test.

Where is this quote?  The Athletic is a news organization.  If they are getting juicy quotes like this, they are going to get it published.

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/sabres-gm-is-reportedly-seeking-six-components-in-return-for-jack-eichel/

[Randall Flagg]

57 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

A poster on another board posted this. I think Adams is on the right track and if teams are still involved then that is a good sign.

 

“Some Insider at the athletic got a quote from an anonymous nhl executive that the asking price for eichel was 6 pieces”

Top six under 24 player F
top 4 Under 24 player D 
1 Bluechip prospect / 2 mid prospects 
1st round

 

Good. You start your ask like this and get one of the lesser prospects and 24yos negotiated away, and come away with what you originally wanted 

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

He has the the return as 3OA, Gibson, Comtois and Perrault 

I don't love it and Gibson for 6 years concerns me greatly. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

A poster on another board posted this. I think Adams is on the right track and if teams are still involved then that is a good sign.

 

“Some Insider at the athletic got a quote from an anonymous nhl executive that the asking price for eichel was 6 pieces”

Top six under 24 player F
top 4 Under 24 player D 
1 Bluechip prospect / 2 mid prospects 
1st round

 

Jimmy Murphy is not an Insider at the Athletic, he is a Boston sports media personality of mixed credibility. I hope that was the opening ask of the Bruins, the team he is most likely to have actual sources with.

Not only will that not be the return, it is almost an impossible return. How many teams in the NHL actually have all those elements, never mind the depth to absorb trading them.

From the Sabres:

Mitts, if he qualifies as top six?

Jokiharju if he qualifies as top 4?

Cozens if qualifies as a prospect still

Peterka and Samuelsson

1st overall

21 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/sabres-gm-is-reportedly-seeking-six-components-in-return-for-jack-eichel/

 

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't love it and Gibson for 6 years concerns me greatly. 

What do your analytics show you about starting goalies between the ages of 27 and 33, comparison to their 22 to 27 years?

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Jimmy Murphy is not an Insider at the Athletic, he is a Boston sports media personality of mixed credibility. I hope that was the opening ask of the Bruins, the team he is most likely to have actual sources with.

Not only will that not be the return, it is almost an impossible return. How many teams in the NHL actually have all those elements, never mind the depth to absorb trading them.

From the Sabres:

Mitts, if he qualifies as top six?

Jokiharju if he qualifies as top 4?

Cozens if qualifies as a prospect still

Peterka and Samuelsson

1st overall

 

What do your analytics show you about starting goalies between the ages of 27 and 33, comparison to their 22 to 27 years?

Idk, goalies are outside my stuff. It's why I rarely like ranking them.

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Idk, goalies are outside my stuff. It's why I rarely like ranking them.

I can’t swear to it but Im pretty sure a majority of starting goalies don’t achieve that status or at least solidify it until they are 25. Basically, their prime years tend to be later than skaters.

Gibson at 27 should be similar to Eichel at 24, in terms of typical player careers.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I can’t swear to it but Im pretty sure a majority of starting goalies don’t achieve that status or at least solidify it until they are 25. Basically, their prime years tend to be later than skaters.

Gibson at 27 should be similar to Eichel at 24, in terms of typical player careers.

Yea but Gibson has declined statistically since 25. His sv% is my issue. 

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea but Gibson has declined statistically since 25. His sv% is my issue. 

His statistical decline mirrored the team’s.

Its not something you can dismiss, but it’s also not a huge red flag. 

There is nothing unusual about a goalie hitting a mid-career flat spot and bouncing back. Fleury, Price, Lehner, and Varlamov all did it.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

His statistical decline mirrored the team’s.

Its not something you can dismiss, but it’s also not a huge red flag. 

There is nothing unusual about a goalie hitting a mid-career flat spot and bouncing back. Fleury, Price, Lehner, and Varlamov all did it.

I'd have Irbe look at his last season of tape and decide if Gibson is salvageable. We can't afford another dead weight contract for 6 years. 

[Cascade Youth]

I find this extremely depressing and the trade hasn’t even happened yet.  This thread is like watching the gallows being constructed from your cell window…

[Zamboni]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea but Gibson has declined statistically since 25. His sv% is my issue. 

Does it have to do with him, and him alone? Or is there an element of “team” that is dressed in front of Gibson that has caused the decline? Not to mention coaching. Not to mention the teams they play the most got better overall, while the Ducks remained stagnant or regressed. Did the Ducks goals per game decline the past two years?