Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Flashsabre]

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

There is nothing we’ve seen yet to indicate this is about cutting costs.

Prior to being hired as GM, Adams was brought in to review the culture of the team, mostly off the ice.

It would be natural for him to continue that on the ice.

It would not be entirely surprising to learn that he has concluded that Jack’s approach and attitude is standing in the way of a needed culture shift.

It would be even less surprising to learn that someone further up the food chain has grown tired of Jack’s approach and attitude and instructed him to move on.

We can only go by what we’ve observed in the past and how it applies to the present.

I will bet there are Jack stories that the front office has that have never made it out to the public.

[aristocrat]

Cam Fowler and 3 

[Randall Flagg]

When Jack Eichel is not playing for the Buffalo Sabres, they are 24-42-12 since drafting him. this is 60 points in 80 games, a 61.5 point pace over a full season. When he does play they are 147-180-48, for a 74.8 point pace. This is an improvement of 21.6%.

When McDavid is out the oilers have 45 points in 48 games, or a 76.9 point pace. When he's in, they have 440 points in 407 games, or an 88.6 point pace. This is a 15.2% improvement.

When Sidney Crosby is out in Pittsburgh, they have 256 points in 200 games, or a 105.0 point pace. When he plays they have 1280 points in 1039 games, or a 101.0 point pace. This is a decrease of 3.8%. 

When Matthews is out in Toronto, they have 48 points in 38 games. This is a 103.6 point pace. When he's in, they have 410 in 334, or a 100.7 point pace, a decrease of 2.8%. 

The season Eichel was given the captain's C, when he started coming into his own offensively, All of Jordan Nolan, Jacob Josefson, Seth Griffith, Benoit Pouliot, Matt Moulson, Evan Rodrigues, Nick Baptiste, Justin Baily and Scott Wilson played nontrivial minutes in the Buffalo Sabres forward group. The season after that, they traded ROR for garbage, and gave the 4th most ES minutes of any forward and 2C role to a guy with the worst metrics in the league, who in that time span went over 40 games without a single goal aside from a dribbler in garbage time of a 4-1 loss, with less than 20 seconds remaining, when it wasn't being played by a 3LW. The season after that, the Sabres couldn't ice more than 2 NHL quality lines in any game all year long. That season and the one before they showed promising signs early, but wore out as the flaws in the roster, pointed out casually here long before the frays began to show, made themselves evident. Every year Eichel is in the top tier of "percentage of team's points scored by one player" if not leading that list. 

"Doing it when it counts, when the game matters." I made a long post before we traded ROR about this. I argued that the absence of games that mattered had nothing to do with ROR, that in the confines of the situation he was put in, he always showed signs that he would be there when it counted. When we needed a goal late against Detroit, he buried his man in the corner and walked out in front by himself to tie the game. When we needed a spark down 0-2 to the Kings in Buffalo, he gave us that spark with a very similar display of intensity and skill. Late tying goals in Nashville and OT goals in Boston, it was all there. Just because the Sabres weren't good enough to get to games that mattered doesn't mean that he was intrinsically less capable of performing should he get there. Instead, that lack of games that matter was his fault, and there was a rather vicious months-long character crusade against this guy for no reason other than flaws in us as humans. Well, we all know what happened. 

I can only conclude similar sentiments r.e. Eichel. I'm not claiming he will be Steve Yzerman or Mark Messier, or even that he should be a captain or is a good leader. But there's no question that only one man was more prominent in these moments on these bad Sabres teams than ROR - it was Jack Eichel. Crazy OT goals and passes. Clutch GWG at home vs. Vegas. Always shutting up the Leafs fans that invaded our building. Walking out in front on ROR's Blues for a late GWG, tying it up on long Island with a minute left. The moments are all there, but every time he stepped on the ice he was with a team that was only capable of last place without him. There are many reasons why those teams are bad, why his development may have been hindered, and there are reasons internal to Jack Eichel why he wasn't a better version of himself, and there are flaws in his availability, maybe his leadership and personality. But the worst bits of trade fallout that are surely going to come, and we may know which posters will be dishing it out already, are going to be tiresome, and are probably not going to be true. I don't really have the energy to go through that again, but I can't get it up for hockey these days and so I likely won't feel compelled to combat it.

I wish you well Jack, and don't listen to the people that ***** talk just to ***** talk. Go win some games, and Kevyn, you better get a return commensurate with trading Jack ***** Eichel. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Randall Flagg

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

I will bet there are Jack stories that the front office has that have never made it out to the public.

There are …

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, Zamboni said:

There are …

I can guarantee you there are horrendous Olli Maata stories that will never see the light of day. Evgeny Kuznetsov, Kris Letang and Tyler Johnson too. 

Who the ***** cares? Do we not live in the real world

[Curt]

7 hours ago, kas23 said:

And why was Adams brought in and what was his primary job? This whole thing is starting to sound like a cost-cutting measure, rather than a sound hockey decision. 

Nah, because they then went ahead and spent as much as they possibly could on Free Agents.

[tom webster]

16 minutes ago, Curt said:

Nah, because they then went ahead and spent as much as they possibly could on Free Agents.

The only thing more ridiculous then the thought that this is a cost cutting move is the notion that it has anything to do with character issues or off ice issues. These guys are not choirboys. They are young, single guys with a lot of money, free time and enablers and it’s not a new generation issue. Mickey Mantle was drunk half his career, the Cowboys had the “White House” hell, when Hasek was here, a member of the equipment staff’s main job was to follow him around and get him out of trouble with the police.

[Curt]

33 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The only thing more ridiculous then the thought that this is a cost cutting move is the notion that it has anything to do with character issues or off ice issues. These guys are not choirboys. They are young, single guys with a lot of money, free time and enablers and it’s not a new generation issue. Mickey Mantle was drunk half his career, the Cowboys had the “White House” hell, when Hasek was here, a member of the equipment staff’s main job was to follow him around and get him out of trouble with the police.

I think that the chances that it mostly has to do with “character” issues is much much more likely than it being a money issue.

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, Curt said:

I think that the chances that it mostly has to do with “character” issues is much much more likely than it being a money issue.

And I think character is probably not the quite right word.  I'm not sure culture is quite the right word here, but I think it is closer to being correct.  I've never felt like Jack was a team guy.  From the beginnings with his reported disrespect for Gionta, Ive felt like Jack is a Jack guy.  Even Sam defers to Jack.  I think right from the get go it had to be about Jack.  And I think that is what KA wants to change.

Obviously, I don't have alot to back this up with, but thats how I read the tea leaves.

If this is accurate (and I have nothing other than gut feel to go on) then I think the team does have to move on from him to really get to where they want to go.

Or Jack has to change.

Edited June 18, 2021 by Weave

[Buffalonill]

8 hours ago, aristocrat said:

Cam Fowler and 3 

I will burn it down 

[thewookie1]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

And I think character is probably not the quite right word.  I'm not sure culture is quite the right word here, but I think it is closer to being correct.  I've never felt like Jack was a team guy.  From the beginnings with his reported disrespect for Gionta, Ive felt like Jack is a Jack guy.  Even Sam defers to Jack.  I think right from the get go it had to be about Jack.  And I think that is what KA wants to change.

Obviously, I don't have alot to back this up with, but thats how I read the tea leaves.

If this is accurate (and I have nothing other than gut feel to go on) then I think the team does have to move on from him to really get to where they want to go.

Or Jack has to change.

Eichel is a great player, and I rather not chase him out of town. But this hypothetical makes sense. At very least, he's possibly polarizing locker room presence.

In a sense, I don't think he'd be a problem on any team with a leader; however the combination of being placed as the Messiah of Buffalo and the typical persona of Bostonians could have greatly inflated his personal ego to a point he feels that he towers over his peers to the extent they are truly beneath him. It may not even be consciously, but if most the team feels worthless compared to Jack; they would behave similarly to how they defer to him constantly.   

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I will bet there are Jack stories that the front office has that have never made it out to the public.

I’ll bet there are Front Office and ownership stories that Jack has that never made it out to the public.  

[Buffalonill]

This how people turned on ROR made bull ***** stories up and people couldn't wait until he was gone 

Now its jacks turn ? 

 

[Pimlach]

 With poor front office management, poor player development, and marginal coaching the root causes of this teams woeful decade laying at the feet of it’s ownership.    

I have no doubts the Pegula’s started the cost cutting/ restructuring by first having KA evaluate the culture of the team, using the Bills as their reference point   Most people bring in outsiders to do this evaluation. Since KA was not part of hockey Operations he was the outsider   

Expecting someone that young (i.e Jack) to lead a team with such a poor supporting cast was a big mistake.  McDavid or Mathews could do no better in the same situation.  Jack doesn’t really want to be the Sabres savior any more, if he ever really did at all. 
 

The trade is coming, we all know we won’t get fair value either.  Same with Reinhart.  I suspect we acquire picks that aren’t quite ready, some prospects to develop, and a few veteran salaries to take on for their last years.   

We could be going into the next season with Asplund/Mitts/Thompson as our first line.  Uhhhgg. 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 With poor front office management, poor player development, and marginal coaching the root causes of this teams woeful decade lay at the feet of it’s ownership.    

I have no doubts the Pegula’s started the cost cutting/ restructuring by first having KA evaluate the culture of the team, using the Bills as their reference point   Most people bring in outsiders to do this evaluation. Since KA was not part of hockey Operations he was the outsider   

Expecting someone that young (i.e Jack) to lead a team with such a poor supporting cast was a big mistake.  McDavid or Mathews could do no better in the same situation.  Jack doesn’t really want to be the Sabres savior any more, if he ever really did at all. 
 

The trade is coming, we all know we won’t get fair value either.  Same with Reinhart.  I suspect we acquire picks that aren’t quite ready, some prospects to develop, and a few veteran salaries to take on for their last years.   

We could be going into the next season with Asplund/Mitts/Thompson as our first line.  Uhhhgg. 

I agree with the general tenor of your comments but have a slightly different perspective. There is no doubt that the return for Jack, Reinhart and Risto won't be equal value. But that doesn't mean that we can't get good value back that will in the short term (next season) expand the young talent base and accelerate the rebuild. As an example, if in the return for our departing players we can get young contributing players such as Zegras and Comtois who can play right away and still have plenty of upside that will be a terrific start. Will we be a better team? I don't know? But it could result in a fuller roster of upside players.

The precarious situation the organization is of its own doing. We are all aware of that. The slate won't be totally wiped out but it will be significantly altered. We have to accept the reality of it and go on from there. If handled right I believe we won't be in as bad a situation an many believe it will be. Needless to say this offseason is going to determine how far off the path or not so far we are off the path to credibility. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

And I think character is probably not the quite right word.  I'm not sure culture is quite the right word here, but I think it is closer to being correct.  I've never felt like Jack was a team guy.  From the beginnings with his reported disrespect for Gionta, Ive felt like Jack is a Jack guy.  Even Sam defers to Jack.  I think right from the get go it had to be about Jack.  And I think that is what KA wants to change.

Obviously, I don't have alot to back this up with, but thats how I read the tea leaves.

If this is accurate (and I have nothing other than gut feel to go on) then I think the team does have to move on from him to really get to where they want to go.

Or Jack has to change.

My point wasn’t necessarily to criticize Eichel, but to point out that it seems a lot more likely that trading him would be more for culture reasons than money reasons.

I do agree with a lot of what you say here, but I also think that it is an extremely common mindset amongst hockey players/humans age 18-24.  Most of us make a lot of mistakes and learn a lot during those years.

Its not Jack’s fault, but I don’t think he was quite ready to be placed in the elevated position of face of the franchise and captain, despite his great on ice results.

[Carmel Corn]

57 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 With poor front office management, poor player development, and marginal coaching the root causes of this teams woeful decade lay at the feet of it’s ownership.    

I have no doubts the Pegula’s started the cost cutting/ restructuring by first having KA evaluate the culture of the team, using the Bills as their reference point   Most people bring in outsiders to do this evaluation. Since KA was not part of hockey Operations he was the outsider   

Expecting someone that young (i.e Jack) to lead a team with such a poor supporting cast was a big mistake.  McDavid or Mathews could do no better in the same situation.  Jack doesn’t really want to be the Sabres savior any more, if he ever really did at all. 
 

The trade is coming, we all know we won’t get fair value either.  Same with Reinhart.  I suspect we acquire picks that aren’t quite ready, some prospects to develop, and a few veteran salaries to take on for their last years.   

We could be going into the next season with Asplund/Mitts/Thompson as our first line.  Uhhhgg. 

Yep, that will sell a lot of season tickets!  I agree with you and I would need to decide whether I renew my NHL Center Ice package next season to watch yet another losing season.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

This how people turned on ROR made bull ***** stories up and people couldn't wait until he was gone 

Now its jacks turn ? 

 

 

[klos1963]

I'm curious as to how many posters here were negative on Eichel prior to this past season.

[Pimlach]

20 minutes ago, Curt said:

My point wasn’t necessarily to criticize Eichel, but to point out that it seems a lot more likely that trading him would be more for culture reasons than money reasons.

I do agree with a lot of what you say here, but I also think that it is an extremely common mindset amongst hockey players/humans age 18-24.  Most of us make a lot of mistakes and learn a lot during those years.

Its not Jack’s fault, but I don’t think he was quite ready to be placed in the elevated position of face of the franchise and captain, despite his great on ice results.

Jack was not and is not a captain at this point in his career   Unfortunately, he has had trouble following those that are. Stories of his past divisive behavior are out there, and hopefully for him he outgrows that in his new place.  

I look at the Islanders and marvel at how Lou built their team, especially after losing Taveras.  The Islanders are still a young team but look at their veteran leadership, all 30 and over and all contribute with their play as well as with veteran presence  - Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Eberle, Martin, Palmeri, Zajack, etc.,  not to mention Lee and Boychuck are injured and out.  

It will be interesting  to see who gets the C with Eichel, and probably Sam and Risto gone. 

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

It will be interesting  to see who gets the C with Eichel, and probably Sam and Risto gone. 

I would not give it to anyone next season, excepting some unforeseen veteran leader addition.  In 2022 give it to whoever shows they deserve it.

[klos1963]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

I would not give it to anyone next season, excepting some unforeseen veteran leader addition.  In 2022 give it to whoever shows they deserve it.

So next year we would have no captain because we have no leader. That doesn't sound too good

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

I would not give it to anyone next season, excepting some unforeseen veteran leader addition.  In 2022 give it to whoever shows they deserve it.

If I had to guess I think Cozens will earn that moniker in a couple of years. 

[Curt]

1 minute ago, klos1963 said:

So next year we would have no captain because we have no leader. That doesn't sound too good

It’s not too uncommon for an NHL team to not name a captain.  Every year there are teams without one.

To me it’s a long term investment.  You don’t just throw it on someone for now.  It should be someone who you are confident will be a leader on the team for years going forward.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

It’s not too uncommon for an NHL team to not name a captain.  Every year there are teams without one.

To me it’s a long term investment.  You don’t just throw it on someone for now.  It should be someone who you are confident will be a leader on the team for years going forward.

And maybe we will break the cycle of bringing in some rando vet and just making him captain or assigning it to some young guy because he's skilled. Make a player earn it and until then watch and wait. If a player is a captain, he'll lead and emerge naturally.