Randall Flagg Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, WildCard said: I remember Jones being the next big thing when he was traded to CBJ. Wild to read he's basically Risto at this point. He became it too. That guy was a stud for at least a couple of years.
Hoss Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, WildCard said: I remember Jones being the next big thing when he was traded to CBJ. Wild to read he's basically Risto at this point. Don’t believe everything you read on the internet. He was a Norris finalist just a couple seasons ago. His play has diminished as the team has and I don’t think that’s a coincidence. Obviously that might lessen the value he has for a team like us because we also suck but he is a damn good defensemen that’s getting a bad look from the charts people.
dudacek Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 I think the Western Division is a vast wasteland on the ice, other than Vegas. I think that off the ice, the Kings and the Ducks are at the bottom of a tough entertainment market and each need to find some way to boost their business. I think that Jack Eichel has the potential to considerably boost the fortunes of either franchise — bitter rivals — on and off the ice. Coincidentally, each franchise has both the cap space to fit Eichel and the trade pieces to make a strong bid. If I am Adams, I am setting these two teams against each other in a bidding war. It's our best chance of getting a strong return. 5 1
LGR4GM Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Posted June 9, 2021 13 hours ago, dudacek said: I would love for you to explain why without using charts. I am fairly confident NHL GMs do not agree with you. If you accept that 2017 was and will be his best season and that this season was somewhat of a bad outlier for Jones, he is a minute eating defender that is good in transition but sometimes gets lost in his own end (could be his team was awful). He's a solid second pairing defender on a good team. Jack Eichel is worth more than him as the centerpiece of a trade especially considering he is 26 and will be 27 b4 next season. Age curve says the decline in production might be over blown but we shouldn't expect some magic increase in production at this point. The athletic talks about some chart stuff but also this is a great paragraph: https://theathletic.com/2629696/ Quote That being said, let’s look at who Jones has played the majority of his time with, Werenski. Werenski is a tremendous talent, but he is also a player who came into the league with a primarily offensive game. Jones and Werenski work together quite well, but a big part of that is that it has always been my read that while Werenski’s first instinct is to jump offensively, it is Jones’ to protect defensively. With this in mind, Jones may have taken that on as his big responsibility when they are on the ice — he’s the caretaker. It also informs why the Blue Jackets organization intentionally worked with Werenski to round out the defensive side of his game — which he has done. If you have a subscription I think the article is a great look into what Jones is. If you want a 35pt defender that is solid defensively with a couple of warts who needs a new contract and is headed to UFA, Jones fits. I would be terrified to overpay him and anything more than a 4 year extension is probably too much. 3
dudacek Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: If you accept that 2017 was and will be his best season and that this season was somewhat of a bad outlier for Jones, he is a minute eating defender that is good in transition but sometimes gets lost in his own end (could be his team was awful). He's a solid second pairing defender on a good team. Jack Eichel is worth more than him as the centerpiece of a trade especially considering he is 26 and will be 27 b4 next season. Age curve says the decline in production might be over blown but we shouldn't expect some magic increase in production at this point. The athletic talks about some chart stuff but also this is a great paragraph: https://theathletic.com/2629696/ If you have a subscription I think the article is a great look into what Jones is. If you want a 35pt defender that is solid defensively with a couple of warts who needs a new contract and is headed to UFA, Jones fits. I would be terrified to overpay him and anything more than a 4 year extension is probably too much. How do you define "solid 2nd-pairing defender?" To me, that's someone who's ranks somewhere in the middle of the 50-100 range in an overall ranking of NHL defenders. His production is well above that range (he's 23rd over the past 3 years), and my perception of his defence is that he's better at it than any current Sabre defenceman.
LGR4GM Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Posted June 9, 2021 35 minutes ago, dudacek said: How do you define "solid 2nd-pairing defender?" To me, that's someone who's ranks somewhere in the middle of the 50-100 range in an overall ranking of NHL defenders. His production is well above that range (he's 23rd over the past 3 years), and my perception of his defence is that he's better at it than any current Sabre defenceman. Right around 40-60 is my definition and where I put Jones going forward.
Brawndo Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 It appears that the Kings are unwillingly to trade the assets to acquire Jack Eichel, they are saving them for an appropriate aged LHD
Thorner Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 2 hours ago, dudacek said: I think the Western Division is a vast wasteland on the ice, other than Vegas. I think that off the ice, the Kings and the Ducks are at the bottom of a tough entertainment market and each need to find some way to boost their business. I think that Jack Eichel has the potential to considerably boost the fortunes of either franchise — bitter rivals — on and off the ice. Coincidentally, each franchise has both the cap space to fit Eichel and the trade pieces to make a strong bid. If I am Adams, I am setting these two teams against each other in a bidding war. It's our best chance of getting a strong return. Pacific, right? Or else, Colorado would be there (this year) 10 minutes ago, Brawndo said: It appears that the Kings are unwillingly to trade the assets to acquire Jack Eichel, they are saving them for an appropriate aged LHD Would our 1OA be of interest? 1
WildCard Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Brawndo said: It appears that the Kings are unwillingly to trade the assets to acquire Jack Eichel, they are saving them for an appropriate aged LHD 3 minutes ago, Thorny said: Pacific, right? Or else, Colorado would be there (this year) Would our 1OA be of interest? My thoughts exactly
Brawndo Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, Thorny said: Pacific, right? Or else, Colorado would be there (this year) Would our 1OA be of interest? 1 minute ago, WildCard said: My thoughts exactly Not for Byfield
Thorner Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 So it always comes back to Turcotte. That's my fear right now, that he's the best trade asset we'll be getting back this summer 1
inkman Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 18 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: Something must have happened to this guy. He was inside or just outside the top 10 D in the league according to most fans I read or interacted with not that long ago He got Risto’d
WildCard Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 7 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Not for Byfield Not a chance. They pick 8th, which I don't really want to do. I'd need someone versed in their prospect pool to tell me what would be available outside of Byfield. 6 minutes ago, Thorny said: So it always comes back to Turcotte. That's my fear right now, that he's the best trade asset we'll be getting back this summer I feel like I'd rather have Turcotte than Power/Beniers
Thorner Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, WildCard said: Not a chance. They pick 8th, which I don't really want to do. I'd need someone versed in their prospect pool to tell me what would be available outside of Byfield. I feel like I'd rather have Turcotte than Power/Beniers I think I'd rather have the other 2, particularly Beniers. I could live with him though over those guys. I can't live with him as the best asset in an Eichel deal.
LGR4GM Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Posted June 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, WildCard said: Not a chance. They pick 8th, which I don't really want to do. I'd need someone versed in their prospect pool to tell me what would be available outside of Byfield. I feel like I'd rather have Turcotte than Power/Beniers I'd rather have Beniers than Turcotte.
Curt Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 17 minutes ago, WildCard said: Not a chance. They pick 8th, which I don't really want to do. I'd need someone versed in their prospect pool to tell me what would be available outside of Byfield. I feel like I'd rather have Turcotte than Power/Beniers Same tier of prospects to me.
WildCard Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Thorny said: I think I'd rather have the other 2, particularly Beniers. I could live with him though over those guys. I can't live with him as the best asset in an Eichel deal. 4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I'd rather have Beniers than Turcotte. My rational was this is a pretty weak draft, and IIRC the 2019 one was fairly good. Turcotte put up 21pts in 32g in the AHL in his first season. I don't know where to find the NHLE or other stats anymore. He's also 2 drafts ahead and further in his development. If we keep Eichel and Sam I'd rather have help now. Edited June 9, 2021 by WildCard 1
LGR4GM Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Posted June 9, 2021 Turcotte also produced less in his NCAA D+1 season than Beniers in p1/gp and p1/e60 Also I understand this is a trade of Power for Turcotte basically but that still doesn't preclude us from trading Eichel (I am convinced he is gone) and possibly Reinhart (I think he stays) so is it worth it? idk
Curt Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 43 minutes ago, Brawndo said: It appears that the Kings are unwillingly to trade the assets to acquire Jack Eichel, they are saving them for an appropriate aged LHD I don’t know John Hoven, apparent Mayor of the LA Kings, of some LA Kings podcast and of the Website Mayor’s Manor. Is this guy actually connected?
Brawndo Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Curt said: I don’t know John Hoven, apparent Mayor of the LA Kings, of some LA Kings podcast and of the Website Mayor’s Manor. Is this guy actually connected? Apparently He is very well connected with the Kings FO (Rob Blake I believe)
LGR4GM Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Brawndo said: Apparently He is very well connected with the Kings FO (Rob Blake I believe) Guess if his neck gets cleared that might change things but Byfield is clearly off the table.
Thorner Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 Again, people should lower their expectations for the top prospect we'll get in the deal. It won't be Tage Thompson again, but it's not going to be an "oh, kick ass!" level prospect 1
LGR4GM Posted June 9, 2021 Author Report Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Thorny said: Again, people should lower their expectations for the top prospect we'll get in the deal. It won't be Tage Thompson again, but it's not going to be an "oh, kick ass!" level prospect Then you simply don't trade Eichel. At some point the team has to stand up for itself. 9
Buffalonill Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 20 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Apparently He is very well connected with the Kings FO (Rob Blake I believe) So to the ducks then
Flashsabre Posted June 9, 2021 Report Posted June 9, 2021 48 minutes ago, Brawndo said: Apparently He is very well connected with the Kings FO (Rob Blake I believe) Could also be Kings FO using him as negotiating ploy like most GMs use Dreger. The article is useless, it doesn’t even say they want Jones. Says long term RHD is set, they need a LHD and two forwards.
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