Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Brawndo]

15 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Is it possible the music that comes with the surgery is why Jack is so adamant?

Marketing 101

[nfreeman]

33 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Would he lose? All his lawyers would have to show is the Sabres were contractually responsible for all medical decisions. That waiver? Jack signed it under duress.

Well, the point of the agreement would be to make it clear that the parties agreed contractually that Jack, not the Sabres, was responsible for the decision.  As for duress, it would certainly not exist here.  The Sabres aren't forcing him to do anything -- they're willing to pay him $50MM to do nothing.

What you're suggesting would be a crazy outcome, which is not unheard of but still so unlikely as not to constitute a real risk or substantial part of the Sabres' analysis IMHO.

I think it's as simple as Jack wants the ADR and he wants the Sabres to bear the risk, while the Sabres don't want to bear the risk.

[Pimlach]

Both surgery’s look intense.  It’s is not obvious to me, someone not in the medical field, why the ADR has a much faster recovery.  
 

If he feels so strongly about ADR then Jack should have what he wants, even if he voids the contract.  He has made a ton of money already.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by Pimlach

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Both surgery’s look intense.  It’s is not obvious to me, someone not in the medical field, why the ADR has a much faster recovery.  
 

If he feels so strongly about ADR then Jack should not have what he wants even if he voids the contract.  He has made a ton of money already.  

Fusion requires the extra time to allow the bone grafts to fully fuse together to form the single bone.

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Fusion requires the extra time to allow the bone grafts to fully fuse together to form the single bone.

Aha. I saw that bone rebuilding in the video.  So they wait for that to complete.    Thanks. 

[dudacek]

44 minutes ago, K-9 said:

He’s currently getting paid, regardless. 

Yes, for now.

If the Sabres wanted to test how much it is really only about getting paid, I suppose they could suspend him for refusing treatment.

[K-9]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes, for now.

If the Sabres wanted to test how much it is really only about getting paid, I suppose they could suspend him for refusing treatment.

If the Sabres wanted to test that, they could have already. They don’t appear to be out to punish him. 

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

If the Sabres wanted to test that, they could have already. They don’t appear to be out to punish him. 

Agreed. It’s the flip side to Eichel not taking this to arbitration.

I think both sides have always agreed the preferred solution is a trade.

Maybe that is closer to reality than our perception? Maybe all it’s going to take is a Vegas adding a Krebs to the deal, or Pegula agreeing to retain $1 million and a “fair” deal could be done.

We really have no clue how far apart the offers are from the ask.

[CallawaySabres]

Pegula is fine paying Eichel his entire contract to not play if the Sabres don't get the return they want. And don't ask, but this is his mindframe.

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Pegula is fine paying Eichel his entire contract to not play if the Sabres don't get the return they want. And don't ask, but this is his mindframe.

Not butthurt at all from the ROR deal, eh?

[CallawaySabres]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not butthurt at all from the ROR 

He has dug his feet in big time.

Edited October 24, 2021 by CallawaySabres

[kas23]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I am surprised by the amount of people discounting Jack Eichel’s ability to make a decision based on what he believes is best for his long-term health. Whether we agree with his conclusions or not, I think it is pretty clear he has done his research and he believes ADR is what’s best for his long-term.

 

Ok. I actually agree with him. He should get the ADR. So if it isn’t about the money and all about his long-term health, why hasn’t he?

[kas23]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You're wrong but we'll just have to leave it at that 

Yea, how convenient. Of course you’re right. How silly of me. 
 

Back to the greed angle. You think that Terry not wanting to lose $50M had nothing to do with greed. First, let me say I’m not applying any judgement because greed is a basic human emotion. We all experience it, often, myself included. Show me a human who states he/she hasn’t been greedy over the last year (or even month) and I’ll show you a liar. You are taking about the same individual who nixed a better trade return for ROR to save $5M. You’re talking about the same person who fired the majority of his hockey dept in the very middle of a pandemic. But, no, potentially losing $50M on a player contract definitely has nothing to do with greed. Who would care about losing $50M. Again, how silly of me. We’ll just have to leave it at that, right?

10 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Ok. I actually agree with him. He should get the ADR. He’s merely 24 years-old and has his whole life before him. So if it isn’t about the money and all about his long-term health, why hasn’t he had the surgery?

 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Yea, how convenient. Of course you’re right. How silly of me. 
 

Back to the greed angle. You think that Terry not wanting to lose $50M had nothing to do with greed. First, let me say I’m not applying any judgement because greed is a basic human emotion. We all experience it, often, myself included. Show me a human who states he/she hasn’t been greedy over the last year (or even month) and I’ll show you a liar. You are taking about the same individual who nixed a better trade return for ROR to save $5M. You’re talking about the same person who fired the majority of his hockey dept in the very middle of a pandemic. But, no, potentially losing $50M on a player contract definitely has nothing to do with greed. Who would care about losing $50M. Again, how silly of me. We’ll just have to leave it at that, right?

 

Well you're convinced you're right.  You seem to have the Pegulas all figured out. 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

How's the yacht coming along?

Ask @kas23. He probably knows.

[nfreeman]

We’re having an interesting conversation here.  No need to get snippy.  

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Ok. I actually agree with him. He should get the ADR. So if it isn’t about the money and all about his long-term health, why hasn’t he?

I answered this up-thread.

• He loves to play hockey and would rather be doing this than anything else in his life.
• He wants to fix his neck in a way that maximizes his recovery time and flexibility in order to play hockey to the best of his ability.
• He wants to minimize the impact of his body post-career.
• He wants to protect the value the $50 million contract he signed.
• He wants to retain the ability to sign another contract or contracts after that one.
• He believes ADR allows him to do all of these things, does not think it is unreasonable to think the Sabres should feel the same way, and believes that he would be able to have all these things if the Sabres would trade him.

You can say that is unrealistic, or makes him entitled, but his position isn’t difficult to understand. And it’s hardly as simplistic as being “all about” any one particular element.

And, for the record, the Pegulas position is not too difficult to understand either.

• They love their hockey team and want nothing more than to see it succeed.
• They want Eichel’s future handled in such a way that maximizes his asset value for that purpose
• They want to minimize the risk of any neck surgery on his long-term health and his value as an asset
• They want to protect the value of the $50 million contract they signed.
• They believe ADR is counterproductive to all these things and do not think it is unreasonable to exercise the powers given to them by a contract Eichel freely and knowingly signed.

Its not petty and it’s not simple. It’s a business negotiation where neither side is likely to get all that it wants, or has been willing or able, as of yet, to find a compromise.

[PerreaultForever]

I still think all of this probably comes down to the insurance company. The procedure Eichel wants has never been done on a professional hockey player so the insurance company will not cover the contract if it goes wrong and so the Sanres, rightfully, will not risk it. It's really that simple and since Jack won't change his stance it's an impass and that's the end of that. 

So Jack can now have his big shot agent file his grievance and they can rule and then, I think, there are no other avenues of appeal so one side will get their way.

[K-9]

49 minutes ago, kas23 said:

Yea, how convenient. Of course you’re right. How silly of me. 
 

Back to the greed angle. You think that Terry not wanting to lose $50M had nothing to do with greed. First, let me say I’m not applying any judgement because greed is a basic human emotion. We all experience it, often, myself included. Show me a human who states he/she hasn’t been greedy over the last year (or even month) and I’ll show you a liar. You are taking about the same individual who nixed a better trade return for ROR to save $5M. You’re talking about the same person who fired the majority of his hockey dept in the very middle of a pandemic. But, no, potentially losing $50M on a player contract definitely has nothing to do with greed. Who would care about losing $50M. Again, how silly of me. We’ll just have to leave it at that, right?

 

When Terry signed Eichel to his deal, he GLADLY agreed to pay that money in the first place. He does not stand to “profit” from the current situation and he continues to pay Eichel’s salary. Again, the word “greed” is just not a word that applies. 

[kas23]

43 minutes ago, K-9 said:

When Terry signed Eichel to his deal, he GLADLY agreed to pay that money in the first place. He does not stand to “profit” from the current situation and he continues to pay Eichel’s salary. Again, the word “greed” is just not a word that applies. 

At the time Terry signed that contract, the circumstances were much different. He thought he was signing a leader who would lead the Sabres to a SC. How wrong he was. 
 

So, at this point, it’s about minimizing money loss. He’s collecting insurance. Some may say it’s smart, some may say it’s greed. Potato, potato. However, at this point, he’s faced with a situation where the next $50M could all be for nothing. Sorry, this isn’t about righting a wrong at this point. Terry could easily sign off on the surgery and say good luck. As @nfreeman hs pointed out, the subsequent liability could easily be dealt with. It’s no public secret that Jack desperately wants the ADR. He’ll have no legal recourse if things go wrong, just put it in writing.
 

So, why exactly why doesn’t Terry allow him to get the surgery then? Is it because he’s worried about Jack’s well being? Not money? You’ve seen the posts about players receiving fusion; it’s pretty bad. At least if he gets the ADR, he could opt to retire with a surgery that is becoming standard for the regular public. In the long-run, the ADR is probably best for him. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by kas23

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, CallawaySabres said:

He has dug his feet in big time.

Oh man. I only hope that he's merely ok with waiting for the return Adams wants, for as long as it takes, rather than demanding some type of unreasonable bar because he's ok with waiting for 5 years. It definitely needs to be Adams' driven. 

The whole situation is now reminding me of Ben Simmons 

[Andrew Amerk]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Oh man. I only hope that he's merely ok with waiting for the return Adams wants, for as long as it takes, rather than demanding some type of unreasonable bar because he's ok with waiting for 5 years. It definitely needs to be Adams' driven. 

I’d love to see this go down. Waiting 5 years would make every sports analyst go bananas. 

Would John wait 5 years and collect his money and not play, just to get his preferred surgery and possibly come back out of touch with how to play?

Edited October 25, 2021 by The Ghost of NS

[kas23]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Ask @kas23. He probably knows.

Agreed. We are talking $50M. There isn’t a single individual or family, including Jack’s, that needs $50M to survive or to live a slightly better life. When people argue about the rightful owners of $50M, do you honestly think they are fighting for their livelihood or ability to make ends meet? Or do you think they are thing about their high-end yacht?

[Andrew Amerk]

It just never ends, does it?

Edited October 25, 2021 by The Ghost of NS

[K-9]

25 minutes ago, kas23 said:

At the time Terry signed that contract, the circumstances were much different. He thought he was signing a leader who would lead the Sabres to a SC. How wrong he was. 
 

So, at this point, it’s about minimizing money loss. He’s collecting insurance. Some may say it’s smart, some may say it’s greed. Potato, potato. However, at this point, he’s faced with a situation where the next $50M could all be for nothing. Sorry, this isn’t about righting a wrong at this point. Terry could easily sign off on the surgery and say good luck. As @nfreeman hs pointed out, the subsequent liability could easily be dealt with. It’s no public secret that Jack desperately wants the ADR. He’ll have no legal recourse if things go wrong, just put it in writing.
 

So, why exactly why doesn’t Terry allow him to get the surgery then? Is it because he’s worried about Jack’s well being? Not money? You’ve seen the posts about players receiving fusion; it’s pretty bad. At least if he gets the ADR, he could opt to retire with a surgery that is becoming standard for the regular public. In the long-run, the ADR is probably best for him. 

Per the bold, I wrote a post about the players that have received fusion surgery. All two of them; one a successful return, one forced to retire. If you could steer me to the research that says cervical ADR is becoming standard for the public and that ADR is best of Eichel, I’d be more than grateful as I’d really like to see that. I’ve only heard one doctor, Prusmack in Colorado, come out and advocate for it publicly. I’ve also heard that the preeminent spinal surgeon in the field, the one who has performed more ADR procedures than anyone, Dr. Cappuccino, advise against it. 

From all I’ve gathered, I just don’t think there is a medical consensus in favor of the ADR procedure for a 24 year old athlete. Perhaps the Sabres can be persuaded otherwise. I guess we’ll see.