Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[bob_sauve28]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’d love to send Jack to Columbus.  

You hate him that much? 😀

[darksabre]

I still think he's going to LA when the dust settles. 

[Brawndo]

15 minutes ago, tom webster said:

Any list that includes Minnesota on the list is worthless.

They are committed to paying over $12M in buyouts for three years starting next year. Add in Kaorizov and Erikson Ek along with a Eichel and you have $40M tied up with three players plus the buyout and that’s assuming Buffalo takes Zuccarello off their hands. Like I’ve said before, I expect the cap to explode but not that soon.

Michael Russo mentioned any deal with the Sabres for Eichel would require salary retention by the Sabres. 
 

There is no way the Sabres would do so, however there is precedent for long term retention with Toronto retenting  15% or 1.2 Million of Kessel’s Deal for 7 years. 
 

The Sabres could retain 20% for. A total of 10 million over the remaining 5 years. There are already paying 800k for four years to Hodgson and which ends next year. They do not have any expensive RFAs or UFAs at the end of this year, so the Cap is not a concern for the first two years of the deal. The remaining three should see mostly prospects on ELCs stepping into the league with a moderate increase in the cap.
 

It’s doable from a cap perspective, but given the present condition of the Sabres and Eichel’s Relationship, there is no way it happens. 

[Curt]

11 hours ago, irregularly irregular said:

Negotiating 101: In order to get something, you will have to give something up. For Jack to get his desired surgery and protection from the potential fallout, he is going to have to give up something very precious. I'm now seeing a contract renegotiation as an avenue of discussion.

For NHL contracts, there is no such thing as contract renegotiation.

[Crusader1969]

50 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Kent Johnson, drafted 5th plays for Michigan.

 

Also you need to take the long view on this. Look at the return that Jones and Risto got and now imagine what Drysdale could potentially bring in a return when He has two years remaining on His ELC as a RHD. I imagine they could get a top center prospect back or they have the potential makings of a Stanley Cup Caliber D Corps. 

I would rather get a center, but Drysdale has a lot of merit 
 

 

Imagine not having interst in a RHD like Dysdale???   the Ducks offer him and their 1st rounder up, plus another piece or two. you make that trade!

52 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Kent Johnson, drafted 5th plays for Michigan.

 

Also you need to take the long view on this. Look at the return that Jones and Risto got and now imagine what Drysdale could potentially bring in a return when He has two years remaining on His ELC as a RHD. I imagine they could get a top center prospect back or they have the potential makings of a Stanley Cup Caliber D Corps. 

I would rather get a center, but Drysdale has a lot of merit 
 

 

100% RIGHT 

[Digger]

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I still think he's going to LA when the dust settles. 

Yes maybe.  They are the team that has the deepest prospect pool (Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Kupari, Fagemo, +++).  They have more top end prospects than they have room on their team in the future.  LA's safe bet would be to see how they develop and keep the best fits for the team but maybe they try to turn some of that capital into an Eichel.  Cap concerns remain though.

[SabresVet]

48 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Kent Johnson, drafted 5th plays for Michigan.

Also you need to take the long view on this. Look at the return that Jones and Risto got and now imagine what Drysdale could potentially bring in a return when He has two years remaining on His ELC as a RHD. I imagine they could get a top center prospect back or they have the potential makings of a Stanley Cup Caliber D Corps. 

I would rather get a center, but Drysdale has a lot of merit 

I don't see them having the luxury of acquiring a defenseman on an ELC with an eye to flipping him for a center prospect down the road.  Their start notwithstanding, this rebuild needs to be executed quickly and they don't have an unlimited timeframe.    

A solid center who can grow into a top-6 type (easier said than done) will enhance the forwards around him.  It would also help to have that player here developing under this HC in his system.  

I still believe Adams is holding out because, despite the start, their center depth is thin at both the minor and major league levels.  

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, Digger said:

Yes maybe.  They are the team that has the deepest prospect pool (Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Kupari, Fagemo, +++).  They have more top end prospects than they have room on their team in the future.  LA's safe bet would be to see how they develop and keep the best fits for the team but maybe they try to turn some of that capital into an Eichel.  Cap concerns remain though.

Who could be a cap dump coming back to the Sabres? And when you have a team clicking like we do, would you want to mess it up?

[darksabre]

4 minutes ago, Digger said:

Yes maybe.  They are the team that has the deepest prospect pool (Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Kupari, Fagemo, +++).  They have more top end prospects than they have room on their team in the future.  LA's safe bet would be to see how they develop and keep the best fits for the team but maybe they try to turn some of that capital into an Eichel.  Cap concerns remain though.

They also have all their picks.

I think the cap stuff is manageable for them in the coming years. They have Dustin Brown, Alex Edler and Olli Maatta coming off after this season. Quick only has this year and next left, he's a guy the Sabres could easily take back as a cap dump and bury in the minors if they want. Kopitar is only signed through end of 23-24, then you get all of his cap space since I doubt he's coming back on anything other than a cap friendly vet contract if he isn't retired. 

LA can definitely do it if they want to and I think with Kopitar winding it down Jack is the best fit to sort of hand the team off to. 

[Brawndo]

41 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

With the Sabres bearing the risk?

Part of the settlement between all parties involved would be protection for the Sabres. If Jack cannot play He would go on LTIR for the remainder of His Deal. Approximately half the league is using LTIR right now, you don’t think Tampa, Toronto or Montreal would love to have an extra 10 Million in Cap Space for the next four to five seasons, especially the former two. The NHL could easily facilitate the moving of Eichel’s Deal if it becomes necessary, an extra 10 million a year in payroll is nothing to the Leafs or Canadiens 

 

[tom webster]

16 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Michael Russo mentioned any deal with the Sabres for Eichel would require salary retention by the Sabres. 
 

There is no way the Sabres would do so, however there is precedent for long term retention with Toronto retenting  15% or 1.2 Million of Kessel’s Deal for 7 years. 
 

The Sabres could retain 20% for. A total of 10 million over the remaining 5 years. There are already paying 800k for four years to Hodgson and which ends next year. They do not have any expensive RFAs or UFAs at the end of this year, so the Cap is not a concern for the first two years of the deal. The remaining three should see mostly prospects on ELCs stepping into the league with a moderate increase in the cap.
 

It’s doable from a cap perspective, but given the present condition of the Sabres and Eichel’s Relationship, there is no way it happens. 

It’s doable but extremely unlikely. I’ll stick with LA, LV with Columbus as the dark horse.

[irregularly irregular]

26 minutes ago, Curt said:

For NHL contracts, there is no such thing as contract renegotiation.

Yes, you are correct. Usually the team just has to swallow the costs and move on.

I think we can all agree the situation with Eichel is different than the usual LTIR or cast-off player getting his contract fulfilled. 

I believe it is extremely unlikely that Eichel is traded before he is proven to be healthy and the Sabres receive acceptable trade value in return. 

I believe it is even less likely that Eichel will have ADR surgery while still a Sabre, unless steps are taken to significantly reduce the teams financial risk. 

In order for Jack to get what he wants, he has to give something up. How bad does Jack want that surgery? It's got to be badly enough to be willing to take the Sabres off the hook for the bill(s) that will result. 

 

 

[Digger]

42 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Who could be a cap dump coming back to the Sabres? And when you have a team clicking like we do, would you want to mess it up?

Yes I love the developing chemistry with the team but we need to make the trade to move on from Eichel.  @darksabre mentioned above that Quick would be the easiest cap dump to come back in goal.  I'm not sure what else would fit because Quick might not be enough to cover the cap but maybe we just take someone like Olie Matta (because we really need more LD.............not).

[LGR4GM]

 

[nfreeman]

48 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Part of the settlement between all parties involved would be protection for the Sabres. If Jack cannot play He would go on LTIR for the remainder of His Deal. Approximately half the league is using LTIR right now, you don’t think Tampa, Toronto or Montreal would love to have an extra 10 Million in Cap Space for the next four to five seasons, especially the former two. The NHL could easily facilitate the moving of Eichel’s Deal if it becomes necessary, an extra 10 million a year in payroll is nothing to the Leafs or Canadiens 

 

Respectfully, I don't think this is realistic.

If he goes on LTIR, someone is paying him a non-insured $50MM.  If the plan is for the Sabres to be protected, that means that it's a different team that is paying the $50MM -- and has agreed to do so AFTER the ADR has failed and left Jack unable to play.  The only reason a team would do so, as you point out, would be for the cap space.

If a wealthy team would be willing to pay $10MM in cash per year x 5 years for nothing except cap space -- and I think there are maybe 2 or 3 teams in the NHL who would do this, and TB isn't one of them -- in order to create this cap space, they'd need to send $10MM per year in contracts back to the Sabres in exchange for Jack's $10MM in LTIR space.  So who would the Sabres get?  At that point, the Sabres would have zero leverage, since they'd be left with a broken Eichel.  They wouldn't get the other team's best prospects and rising star RFAs -- they'd get the other team's Okposo or Skinner.

Bottom line IMHO is that there is no way for the Sabres not to end up bearing the risk if they allow Jack to have the ADR while he is under contract with them.  For that matter, even if his contract is voided, the Sabres are still worse off than they are now in all scenarios other than a full recovery that is somehow demonstrably sustainable.

[Doohicksie]

13 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Per Cap Friendly He has made 33.1 Million thus far.

Spotrac.com has him at just shy of $43 million to date

Edited October 20, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[Digger]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Wait until they lose to Carolina on Thursday.  Detroit on Saturday (home game) might be their first win (or maybe not).

[Doohicksie]

13 hours ago, irregularly irregular said:

Negotiating 101: In order to get something, you will have to give something up. For Jack to get his desired surgery and protection from the potential fallout, he is going to have to give up something very precious. I'm now seeing a contract renegotiation as an avenue of discussion.

I don't think renegotiation is an option under the CBA.

[darksabre]

35 minutes ago, Digger said:

Yes I love the developing chemistry with the team but we need to make the trade to move on from Eichel.  @darksabre mentioned above that Quick would be the easiest cap dump to come back in goal.  I'm not sure what else would fit because Quick might not be enough to cover the cap but maybe we just take someone like Olie Matta (because we really need more LD.............not).

I'm making the assumption that this trade doesn't happen until the offseason, fwiw 

[Doohicksie]

43 minutes ago, irregularly irregular said:

In order for Jack to get what he wants, he has to give something up. How bad does Jack want that surgery? It's got to be badly enough to be willing to take the Sabres off the hook for the bill(s) that will result.

He could do that simply by having the ADR without their consent.  If it fails and he cannot play, they can void is contract for not following their treatment plan.  But he won't.  If it were a possibility he would have done it already.

The downside for Jack is he assumes all the risk to the point of not getting paid for the next 5 years.  He's not going to do that.

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So.... they're just giving up on this season.

[Doohicksie]

13 minutes ago, Digger said:

Wait until they lose to Carolina on Thursday.  Detroit on Saturday (home game) might be their first win (or maybe not).

Detroit is one OTL away from being the Buffalo Sabres this year.  They're 2-0-1.  Don't count them out.

[Wyldnwoody44]

[dudacek]

31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Respectfully, I don't think this is realistic.

If he goes on LTIR, someone is paying him a non-insured $50MM.  If the plan is for the Sabres to be protected, that means that it's a different team that is paying the $50MM -- and has agreed to do so AFTER the ADR has failed and left Jack unable to play.  The only reason a team would do so, as you point out, would be for the cap space.

If a wealthy team would be willing to pay $10MM in cash per year x 5 years for nothing except cap space -- and I think there are maybe 2 or 3 teams in the NHL who would do this, and TB isn't one of them -- in order to create this cap space, they'd need to send $10MM per year in contracts back to the Sabres in exchange for Jack's $10MM in LTIR space.  So who would the Sabres get?  At that point, the Sabres would have zero leverage, since they'd be left with a broken Eichel.  They wouldn't get the other team's best prospects and rising star RFAs -- they'd get the other team's Okposo or Skinner.

Bottom line IMHO is that there is no way for the Sabres not to end up bearing the risk if they allow Jack to have the ADR while he is under contract with them.  For that matter, even if his contract is voided, the Sabres are still worse off than they are now in all scenarios other than a full recovery that is somehow demonstrably sustainable.

I think what he’s getting at, and what was was hinted at in the Friedman piece was that some sort of one-time deal was struck where the NHL and NHLPA would break the logjam by collectively agreeing to take on (part? all?) of the risk.

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, tom webster said:

For 3 years?

just a joke

[nfreeman]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think what he’s getting at, and what was was hinted at in the Friedman piece was that some sort of one-time deal was struck where the NHL and NHLPA would break the logjam by collectively agreeing to take on (part? all?) of the risk.

That doesn't strike me as realistic either.  I don't think the 30 other owners would view it as in their interests to help the Sabres or Eichel, or at least not $50MM in their interests (or $20MM or whatever their piece would be), and I doubt the players would want much if any of the financial obligation either.