Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

I don't think KA should back down.  He holds all the power in this negotiation.  Tom Golisano once said, and I quote, "There are three facets to negotiation: Time, Information, and Power.  You try to get as many of these on your side as you can. Sometimes you don't have time on your side.  Sometimes you don't have knowledge.  Sometimes you don't have all the power, but the more you have on your side, the better off you are going to be."

So the Sabres absolutely have the power per the contract and CBA. 

The Sabres also have all the information with regards to Jack's condition, albeit they may interpret this information differently than Jack's doctor or other teams. The Sabres shared this information recently to help facilitate this trade and can't imagine they would do so if it was going to damage their negotiating position. 

Time is tilted towards the Sabres because Jack can't play until he gets surgery, but he also has a NMC that kicks in after the season.  The Sabres could technically drag this to the trade deadline, which would then keep Jack out of the playoffs this year too.  So both Jack and the team trading for him want to get this done ASAP.  

I don't want KA to blink, at least not yet, because he still has several months to make a deal happen.

The Sabres hold the cards, but that’s relative to Eichel. It’s still incumbent on the team to convert the asset into something of value. We aren’t so rich with assets that we can afford to squander our greatest, an asset that even after injury has its say remains our most valuable, imo. 

The Sabres aren’t exactly in a rush, due to the path they chose, but the sooner we get the converted assets in the system, indeed the better. Now, of course you don’t sacrifice asset quality for speed to a significant extent, but a situation where Jack sits for 5 years, hypothetically, isn’t a neutral one for the Sabres. 

[LabattBlue]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Per Friedman The Sabres prevailing thought is they were patient with Risto and got the deal that they want for Him and they are willing to do the same with Eichel.

Ridiculous statement by EF.  Two completely different situations. 👎

[pi2000]

I kinda like where the Sabres are at wrt the Eichel situation. 

The longer this drags on, the more respect I have for KA.

The tail no longer wags the dog in Buffalo.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Agree.  The discussion was on the idea that the media reports were being put out in order to excite the fans into pressuring Adams to make an Eichel trade.

Media reports are out there mostly because this is the most interesting off-ice story in hockey right now and guys like Friedman are paid to tell it.

Not aimed at you, but there seems to be a prevailing thought among some here that any Eichel reports are agenda-driven lies eagerly gobbled up and relayed by Friedman as he knowingly prostitutes his professional integrity in order to get future scoops.

Oddly enough, this seems to surface most frequently when he reports something that doesn't fit their personal agendas. I assume this is because it is an easy way to deflect and deny without having to demonstrate why a report is "wrong."

Like all of us, he makes mistakes, but in more than a decade of paying close attention to most of what he reports, I have generally found Friedman to be fair and professional in his reporting, and tenacious in his pursuit of stories. It's how he has risen to the where he has.

Friedman isn't sitting on a beach somewhere waiting for a text from Pat Brisson to tell him what to write next. He chases and writes stories about Eichel because that is his job. He reports what he's told - typically in careful fashion - by multiple sources around the league that he trusts and who are willing to talk to him. Of course those sources often have agendas. Good reporters - and Friedman is one - take that in to account in what they report and how.

What he reports 9 times out of 10 is going to be a pretty fair reflection of  what is out there in the industry. And if it is lacking in the Sabres perspective, it is because the Sabres have complicated his process by being unwilling to share their side.

 

52 minutes ago, K-9 said:

So a player can refuse to be traded entirely then if he chooses. Might be a long five years for Eichel then.

It was reported a couple weeks back that Jack is willing to go anywhere.

 

9 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Ridiculous statement by EF.  Two completely different situations. 👎

This was not Friedman's opinion. It was him reporting that he has been told the Sabres feel that by waiting long enough on Risto, they maximized the return. They are applying that lesson to Eichel.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Media reports are out there mostly because this is the most interesting off-ice story in hockey right now and guys like Friedman are paid to tell it.

Not aimed at you, but there seems to be a prevailing thought among some here that any Eichel reports are agenda-driven lies eagerly gobbled up and relayed by Friedman as he knowingly prostitutes his professional integrity in order to get future scoops.

Oddly enough, this seems to surface most frequently when he reports something that doesn't fit their personal agendas. I assume this is because it is an easy way to deflect and deny without having to demonstrate why a report is "wrong."

Like all of us, he makes mistakes, but in more than a decade of paying close attention to most of what he reports, I have generally found Friedman to be fair and professional in his reporting, and tenacious in his pursuit of stories. It's how he has risen to the where he has.

Friedman isn't sitting on a beach somewhere waiting for a text from Pat Brisson to tell him what to write next. He chases and writes stories about Eichel because that is his job. He reports what he's told - typically in careful fashion - by multiple sources around the league that he trusts and who are willing to talk to him. Of course those sources often have agendas. Good reporters - and Friedman is one - take that in to account in what they report and how.

What he reports 9 times out of 10 is going to be a pretty fair reflection of  what is out there in the industry. And if it is lacking in the Sabres perspective, it is because the Sabres have complicated his process by being unwilling to share their side.

 

It was reported a couple weeks back that Jack is willing to go anywhere.

 

This was not Friedman's opinion. It was him reporting that he has been told the Sabres feel that by waiting long enough on Risto, they maximized the return. They are applying that lesson to Eichel.

Freidmann is a top tier hockey journalist. Which makes it all the more surprising his coverage of the Eichel saga is so uneven. No, this isn't because it "doesn't fit my personal agenda." ADR surgery is being presented as a panacea without any word from other spinal surgeons. You would think as big a story as Jack's neck is you'd want some perspective. But apparently not.

[Brawndo]

11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Freidmann is a top tier hockey journalist. Which makes it all the more surprising his coverage of the Eichel saga is so uneven. No, this isn't because it "doesn't fit my personal agenda." ADR surgery is being presented as a panacea without any word from other spinal surgeons. You would think as big a story as Jack's neck is you'd want some perspective. But apparently not.

TBH, I do not believe that the Sabres are pushing Eichel to have the spinal fusion and that’s the reason why Friedman and others are not mentioning it. Adams in repeated interviews has stated they feel the spinal fusion is the preferred and that they will not authorize the ADR, but he quickly pivots to speaking about His Conversations with other GMs and doing what is best for the Sabres Organization and getting Their Perceived Value for Jack in any trade. 
 

Eichel’s Camp has made it clear He will not have the ACDF and the Sabres have not suspended Him for failure to abide by the teams recommended medical treatment.

There are teams reportedly willing to allow Jack to have His ADR and the Sabres, Brisson, the NHL and PA are working to find a resolution. 
 

The only way the fusion enters the picture is if the ADR fails and that situation would most likely be another franchises problem. 
 

He  did mention that other franchises that Friedman has spoken to are sympathetic to Eichel’s Situation, but they do support the Sabres Position as these franchises make huge investments in players and néed to have control over medical procedures. 

[K-9]

37 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Freidmann is a top tier hockey journalist. Which makes it all the more surprising his coverage of the Eichel saga is so uneven. No, this isn't because it "doesn't fit my personal agenda." ADR surgery is being presented as a panacea without any word from other spinal surgeons. You would think as big a story as Jack's neck is you'd want some perspective. But apparently not.

It’s that lack of balance in his reporting that makes me so suspect. I don’t have an “agenda” as implied in a post above, but I do expect reporters to give credence to all sides of an issue when possible. And it’s certainly possible when it come to this particular neck injury.

Friedman and Co. have been seemingly lacking in seeking and reporting what other sources in the medical community have to say on the subject. Instead, it’s been frequent reports implying how the Sabres are denying Eichel, holding him back, not good for the league, etc., when there is ample medical opinion out there to suggest not only are the Sabres NOT holding him back, but they are indeed doing what’s BEST for him medically. 

[dudacek]

46 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Freidmann is a top tier hockey journalist. Which makes it all the more surprising his coverage of the Eichel saga is so uneven. No, this isn't because it "doesn't fit my personal agenda." ADR surgery is being presented as a panacea without any word from other spinal surgeons. You would think as big a story as Jack's neck is you'd want some perspective. But apparently not.

It  is not and has not. One interview with Jack's physician of choice does not represent that. Previous and subsequent reports do not do this.

Friedman has been very clear in his reporting Eichel favours this surgery, the Sabres do not want him to have it on the advice of their doctors. He has also been very clear that a number of teams interested in Jack's rights are willing to let him have the surgery.

Statements like the bold misrepresent the facts.

 

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It  is not and has not. One interview with Jack's physician of choice does not represent that. Previous and subsequent reports do not do this.

Friedman has been very clear in his reporting Eichel favours this surgery, the Sabres do not want him to have it on the advice of their doctors. He has also been very clear that a number of teams interested in Jack's rights are willing to let him have the surgery.

Statements like the bold misrepresent the facts.

 

With all due respect to Friedman, how many of these supposed teams are actually extending serious offers? Because I bet the number is zero.

He can say it, and it can be true, but it can also be totally meaningless. 

[Hoss]

5 minutes ago, darksabre said:

With all due respect to Friedman, how many of these supposed teams are actually extending serious offers? Because I bet the number is zero.

He can say it, and it can be true, but it can also be totally meaningless. 

Yea, outside of the Kaplan report about a deal being near a week or two ago I don’t get the feeling there have been serious offers. The teams probably know what the Sabres want and the Sabres probably know what teams are currently willing to give but that doesn’t mean offers have actually been made or exchanged.

[darksabre]

9 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Yea, outside of the Kaplan report about a deal being near a week or two ago I don’t get the feeling there have been serious offers. The teams probably know what the Sabres want and the Sabres probably know what teams are currently willing to give but that doesn’t mean offers have actually been made or exchanged.

I just don't think anything is going to happen any time soon. The insiders want to keep the pump primed but I'd bet it's pretty much radio silent now that we're into the regular season.

The agreement between the Sabres and any potential suitor that makes everyone happy will end up being wildly complicated and I don't see how that can be resolved quickly. I still think we're looking at the off-season. 

[K-9]

10 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I just don't think anything is going to happen any time soon. The insiders want to keep the pump primed but I'd bet it's pretty much radio silent now that we're into the regular season.

The agreement between the Sabres and any potential suitor that makes everyone happy will end up being wildly complicated and I don't see how that can be resolved quickly. I still think we're looking at the off-season. 

Can’t agree more here. The start of the season brings with it a shift in priorities for every team in the league. 

[HoosierDaddy]

Duchene trade happened on 11/5/17.

[darksabre]

13 minutes ago, HoosierDaddy said:

Duchene trade happened on 11/5/17.

Matt Duchene didn't need neck surgery and have a completely nebulous trade value. Come on.

 

[Marvin]

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Matt Duchene didn't need neck surgery and have a completely nebulous trade value. Come on.

 

I think his point is that without complications, that took until November.  This could run a LOT longer.

As an aside, PHWA members should have their skills well-honed on how to write "all's quiet on the western front" interestingly for months on end once the Eichel saga is over.

[ndirish1978]

What would really happen if Eichel just went ahead and got the surgery he wanted? Worst case scenario the Sabres void his contract, which would leave him free to sign with another team? They could fine and suspend him without pay according to the CBA, but they would still need to trade him eventually. I don't see why he doesn't just do what he wants if he's so upset about it? You'd think someone with an ego like his would be willing to bet on himself.

[Hoss]

59 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I just don't think anything is going to happen any time soon. The insiders want to keep the pump primed but I'd bet it's pretty much radio silent now that we're into the regular season.

The agreement between the Sabres and any potential suitor that makes everyone happy will end up being wildly complicated and I don't see how that can be resolved quickly. I still think we're looking at the off-season. 

It’s even harder to make financials work in-season and there’s no guarantee you get Eichel to play at any point this season so there’s really no point to acquiring him. He may just be wasted for the entire season (marking two consecutive seasons). I do think Jack probably needs to start working on the litigation/grievance effort, even if I think it has very little chance to succeed.

[Doohicksie]

5 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

What would really happen if Eichel just went ahead and got the surgery he wanted? Worst case scenario the Sabres void his contract, which would leave him free to sign with another team? They could fine and suspend him without pay according to the CBA, but they would still need to trade him eventually. I don't see why he doesn't just do what he wants if he's so upset about it? You'd think someone with an ego like his would be willing to bet on himself.

We've been over this before:  If Eichel had any thoughts of doing this, he would have done it by now to be ready for the season start.  If he has the surgery and it doesn't go well, then the Sabres void $50 million of his income and if it didn't go well, who's going to pay him?  No one.  He's not going to incur that risk.

I think the reason the Sabres won't approve the surgery he wants is that it hasn't been done on an NHLer previously, and there is some possibility it could fail and in the worst case scenario cause paralysis.  That's a risk the Sabres are not willing to take (although apparently other teams are).  A lawsuit resulting from paralysis could involve more than the amount of Jack's salary.

9 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I do think Jack probably needs to start working on the litigation/grievance effort, even if I think it has very little chance to succeed.

I read on the forum here that the period for him to file a health grievance is long past.

[ndirish1978]

33 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

We've been over this before:  If Eichel had any thoughts of doing this, he would have done it by now to be ready for the season start.  If he has the surgery and it doesn't go well, then the Sabres void $50 million of his income and if it didn't go well, who's going to pay him?  No one.  He's not going to incur that risk.

I think the reason the Sabres won't approve the surgery he wants is that it hasn't been done on an NHLer previously, and there is some possibility it could fail and in the worst case scenario cause paralysis.  That's a risk the Sabres are not willing to take (although apparently other teams are).  A lawsuit resulting from paralysis could involve more than the amount of Jack's salary.

I read on the forum here that the period for him to file a health grievance is long past.

 

Thanks, I read the last few pages but didn't go through the entire thread. Seems a but hypocritical on his end to want to ramrod through a treatment but only at the risk of the club. If he were truly convinced this is the best course of action he should have assumed the risk and he'd be gone already.

[Hoss]

Random wild thought (Jack, if you’re reading this and it works I want 3% commission for career earnings):

Could Jack RETIRE, get the surgery he wants, go to the Olympics, then unretire?

[ndirish1978]

Just now, Hoss said:

Random wild thought (Jack, if you’re reading this and it works I want 3% commission for career earnings):

Could Jack RETIRE, get the surgery he wants, go to the Olympics, then unretire?

His contract would still be with the Sabres, no?

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

His contract would still be with the Sabres, no?

Yes, so when he unretires he’d absolutely be under contract with the Sabres but I am curious if that’s an avenue. Maybe @Taro Thas some CBA insight there?

[Weave]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Media reports are out there mostly because this is the most interesting off-ice story in hockey right now and guys like Friedman are paid to tell it.

Not aimed at you, but there seems to be a prevailing thought among some here that any Eichel reports are agenda-driven lies eagerly gobbled up and relayed by Friedman as he knowingly prostitutes his professional integrity in order to get future scoops.

Oddly enough, this seems to surface most frequently when he reports something that doesn't fit their personal agendas. I assume this is because it is an easy way to deflect and deny without having to demonstrate why a report is "wrong."

Like all of us, he makes mistakes, but in more than a decade of paying close attention to most of what he reports, I have generally found Friedman to be fair and professional in his reporting, and tenacious in his pursuit of stories. It's how he has risen to the where he has.

Friedman isn't sitting on a beach somewhere waiting for a text from Pat Brisson to tell him what to write next. He chases and writes stories about Eichel because that is his job. He reports what he's told - typically in careful fashion - by multiple sources around the league that he trusts and who are willing to talk to him. Of course those sources often have agendas. Good reporters - and Friedman is one - take that in to account in what they report and how.

What he reports 9 times out of 10 is going to be a pretty fair reflection of  what is out there in the industry. And if it is lacking in the Sabres perspective, it is because the Sabres have complicated his process by being unwilling to share their side.

 

[Digger]

6 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Thanks, I read the last few pages but didn't go through the entire thread. Seems a but hypocritical on his end to want to ramrod through a treatment but only at the risk of the club. If he were truly convinced this is the best course of action he should have assumed the risk and he'd be gone already.

Yes seems reasonable, but on the other hand he has a guaranteed $50 Million left on his deal, I assume he's been warned not to risk voiding the contract or going against the Sabres doctors in case the surgery has complications.  This is one point I wish the insiders would cover when talking about the situation covering both sides fairly.  The contract is guaranteed and the Sabres have taken the option that their doctors consider to be the lower risk.  Eichel doesn't agree but he's not willing to take the risk on his own.  As it stands Eichel will get his money regardless of what surgery he gets (if he can convince the Sabres or get traded and convince his new team) and regardless if he returns to full health or even plays again.  Yes I acknowledge that Eichel also has the risk to his health (short and long term).  This drama needs to have some resolution.  

[Doohicksie]

37 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Seems a but hypocritical on his end to want to ramrod through a treatment but only at the risk of the club.

So far there's been a lot of posturing and very little action.  For as straightforward as this may look to fans, this is a pretty complicated issue legally, especially from the standpoint of risk and risk mitigation (in a legalistic, corporate sense).  If Jack goes rogue and just has the surgery he wants, it turns the entire situation on its ear.  If the surgery is not successful (which is a realistic scenario) he's gonna have to scrape by with the $42+ million he's made to date.  Then there's the scenario where the surgery is done, he returns to play, and we find out the implant is not up to the physical rigors of the NHL.

If he can get a team to trade for him, endorse the surgery, and let him play, then if there is some subsequent problem, the risk is shared with the team.

Oh, and another consideration:  If you have disc fusion, it can lead to more disc fusions.  Every one of those fused joints reduces range of motion.  When Jack's playing days are over he will need to live with that for the rest of his life.  With the ADR he doesn't lose range of motion, so in his old age he won't feel the limitations of the fusion.

Edited October 18, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri