Flashsabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, nfreeman said: Well, based on @Brawndo’s description and Russo’s and Burnside’s reporting, it seems likely that the Wild were willing to trade for Jack and allow him to have the ADR surgery he wants — but the trade return for the Sabres wouldn’t be much more than a dry erase board. So they would’ve taken the headache off of the Sabres’ hands, but for a minimal return in trade — and who knows how much of the contract they would’ve required the Sabres to retain. For those criticizing KA here: would you be OK with Eichel being traded for a 2nd round pick, no salary retention and that’s all? I think this kind of trade is pretty likely the only offer that is available to KA right now, and I don’t think that is going to change until Jack shows that he’s healthy. I also think that KA has decided that rather than making that type of trade, he is going to let Jack sit and stew until he gets fusion surgery, at which point he presumably will be able to play again and be traded. It’s a crappy situation all around. Are you trying to be funny? The trade return was printed ON the dry erase board and the exec for the Wild thought it was a very steep price to pay. Probably Boldy+++ or Rossi+++.
nfreeman Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, dudacek said: If the first two hold true, then one of the bold must change in order for there to be a resolution. I don't think either of the first two will change, and if anyone here does, they have yet to speak up and tell us why. I think Jack caving on fusion surgery is more likely than the Sabres caving on ADR surgery. 8 minutes ago, Flashsabre said: Are you trying to be funny? The trade return was printed ON the dry erase board and the exec for the Wild thought it was a very steep price to pay. Probably Boldy+++ or Rossi+++. Not trying to be funny -- I just mis-read Brawndo's post. I do think though that no one is offering much for Eichel. Hamilton has reported that the ROR return (i.e. a low #1 and a team's 4th-best prospect) is available. 2
darksabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I think Jack caving on fusion surgery is more likely than the Sabres caving on ADR surgery. Not trying to be funny -- I just mis-read Brawndo's post. I do think though that no one is offering much for Eichel. Hamilton has reported that the ROR return (i.e. a low #1 and a team's 4th-best prospect) is available. I still feel like it could go either way, but it's going to come down to some kind of massive legal agreement that doesn't yet exist. It makes sense now why Jack would have changed agents, whether it was his idea or the league's idea. He needed to be represented by a much more capable agency because they likely retain better legal counsel who can work with the leagues lawyers, the NHLPA, the insurance companies, and the Sabres lawyers to figure out something that is amenable to everyone. I would bet this situation is mostly out of Adams' hands for the time being. 1
dudacek Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, darksabre said: I still feel like it could go either way, but it's going to come down to some kind of massive legal agreement that doesn't yet exist. It makes sense now why Jack would have changed agents, whether it was his idea or the league's idea. He needed to be represented by a much more capable agency because they likely retain better legal counsel who can work with the leagues lawyers, the NHLPA, the insurance companies, and the Sabres lawyers to figure out something that is amenable to everyone. I would bet this situation is mostly out of Adams' hands for the time being. This is where I think it has to go, and where I think everyone's efforts should have been focused on months ago.
Pimlach Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 11 hours ago, K-9 said: Thanks for the clarification. Yeah, it’s pretty well known that KA was making inquiries. Nice of Pegula to actually let his GM act like, you know, a GM. It’s a shame it couldn’t get done before Eichel got hurt. Let’s hope Pegula learned his lesson. The only lesson Pegula needs to learn is to get out of the way, like he does for football. He is like a star stuck fan hanging out with Beane and McDermott. But he doesn’t make football decisions.
darksabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: This is where I think it has to go, and where I think everyone's efforts should have been focused on months ago. Yup. Unfortunately I think evidence indicates that Peter Fish was not equal to the task and ultimately held this process up longer than needed. 2
JoeSchmoe Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 Are you guys still talking about the Eichel?
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, darksabre said: I still feel like it could go either way, but it's going to come down to some kind of massive legal agreement that doesn't yet exist. It makes sense now why Jack would have changed agents, whether it was his idea or the league's idea. He needed to be represented by a much more capable agency because they likely retain better legal counsel who can work with the leagues lawyers, the NHLPA, the insurance companies, and the Sabres lawyers to figure out something that is amenable to everyone. I would bet this situation is mostly out of Adams' hands for the time being. I’d submit that, aside from any trade discussions with other teams, this entire situation has been out of KA’s hands almost entirely. He is just not in a position to overrule team doctors and their best medical advice. Edited September 28, 2021 by K-9 1
Pimlach Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 11 hours ago, Hoss said: It all is unless it serves a role of uplifting the spirits of the Sabres, apparently. We need all must draw our own conclusions based off far too little information if we’re to have any conversation here. I see plenty of signs the Sabres are primarily responsible for one of the worst situations imaginable between a player and the team that employs him. I do not hesitate to lay the blame for 10 years of ineptitude where it belongs, and that is with Terry Pegula and the most most unqualified Hockey President Kim. From the outside looking in, I do not lay all the blame of the Eichel situation on them. There are elements of bad management, bad timing and bad luck that cannot be denied. A decade of losing, a pandemic, an unhappy “star” that has not been able to make a difference, a big contract, and now a severe injury. To your point, when I hear things from the inside, a common theme is Eichel’s behavior and the behavior of his former agent. Look at his presser, his former agents silly stunts in the media …. They made it harder. This is a shared disaster. If Terry Pegula is driving the high price tag on Eichel it is because they got burned on the ROR, a trade Terry himself initiated with an imposed timeline (the bonus). He tries to fix past meddling and bungling by more meddling. I get it, it’s his team, he has a right to run it as he sees fit. His best course of action is to give Adams and Granato time and room and stay far away from all aspects of Hockey Operations. I see Eichel on the shelf all season. No assets coming anytime soon. The injury and the contract must be reconciled in some manner before the other 31 GMs can meet our demands. 1
pi2000 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 IMO the longer this drags on the more likely it is that Jack decides on his own to get the ADR surgery, taking on the risk himself. BUF could void his contract, but if the procedure is successful they have no reason to. Jack is putting the remainder of his contract at risk, but if he truly believes in ADR I think he'd be willing to take on that risk. 2 1
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 2 hours ago, dudacek said: To add to the above before people sweep in with "how do you know..." This is my impression created by the messaging put out there by the people involved. Adams has seemed most focused on showing fans he's steadfast. I would have appreciated more messaging that also shows he's willing and able to solve this problem. Translation: get nothing for Jack.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, pi2000 said: IMO the longer this drags on the more likely it is that Jack decides on his own to get the ADR surgery, taking on the risk himself. BUF could void his contract, but if the procedure is successful they have no reason to. Jack is putting the remainder of his contract at risk, but if he truly believes in ADR I think he'd be willing to take on that risk. If ADR was such a slam dunk you'd think he'd do this.
Weave Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, pi2000 said: IMO the longer this drags on the more likely it is that Jack decides on his own to get the ADR surgery, taking on the risk himself. BUF could void his contract, but if the procedure is successful they have no reason to. Jack is putting the remainder of his contract at risk, but if he truly believes in ADR I think he'd be willing to take on that risk. I can’t see him giving up this seasons salary to do that. He’d have to be suspended and therefore unpaid.
darksabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, pi2000 said: IMO the longer this drags on the more likely it is that Jack decides on his own to get the ADR surgery, taking on the risk himself. BUF could void his contract, but if the procedure is successful they have no reason to. Jack is putting the remainder of his contract at risk, but if he truly believes in ADR I think he'd be willing to take on that risk. What are the metrics for determining the procedure is a success? Is it not possible that there would be points down the road where the ADR fails and suddenly Jack is no longer able to play while still under contract? The team would absolutely void the contract immediately if he got surgery they haven't approved. There's no way he goes this route without knowing how it will affect his financial situation going forward. 1
pi2000 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, darksabre said: What are the metrics for determining the procedure is a success? Is it not possible that there would be points down the road where the ADR fails and suddenly Jack is no longer able to play while still under contract? The team would absolutely void the contract immediately if he got surgery they haven't approved. There's no way he goes this route without knowing how it will affect his financial situation going forward. It's quite simple, if he passes a physical (post ADR) and team doctors clear him to play, then the risk shifts back to the Sabres. Edited September 28, 2021 by pi2000
darksabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, pi2000 said: It's quite simple, if he passes a physical (post ADR) and team doctors clear him to play, then the risk shifts back to the Sabres. The Sabres will never assume that risk. They would void his contract immediately. 1
dudacek Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Translation: get nothing for Jack. He's got literally nothing for Jack now, as opposed to your version of nothing. His plan seems to be "if I wait long enough some GM will pay a 'healthy Eichel' price for a 'broken' Eichel." Or "If I wait long enough, this man will agree to a major surgery he clearly doesn't want."
Buffalonill Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, pi2000 said: IMO the longer this drags on the more likely it is that Jack decides on his own to get the ADR surgery, taking on the risk himself. BUF could void his contract, but if the procedure is successful they have no reason to. Jack is putting the remainder of his contract at risk, but if he truly believes in ADR I think he'd be willing to take on that risk. We still hold his rights if we void his contract
COSabreFan Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, dudacek said: He's got literally nothing for Jack now, as opposed to your version of nothing. His plan seems to be "if I wait long enough some GM will pay a 'healthy Eichel' price for a 'broken' Eichel." Or "If I wait long enough, this man will agree to a major surgery he clearly doesn't want." If both sides stand firm, I can’t see a current scenario where the value of Jack improves with time. It’s like the Sabres are playing the long game on a depreciating asset. Sometimes you have to sell at a loss while it’s still a loss not a zero. Edited September 28, 2021 by COSabreFan
K-9 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 8 minutes ago, dudacek said: He's got literally nothing for Jack now, as opposed to your version of nothing. His plan seems to be "if I wait long enough some GM will pay a 'healthy Eichel' price for a 'broken' Eichel." Or "If I wait long enough, this man will agree to a major surgery he clearly doesn't want." Or, “If I wait long enough, Jack will get an agreed upon surgery of some type, the rehab goes well and he’s cleared to play, Jack returns to form, and teams will line up to make legitimate offers for a player of his caliber. I got time.” 3
Buffalonill Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, COSabreFan said: If both sides stand firm, I can’t see a current scenario where the value of Jack improves with time. It’s like the Sabres are playing the long game on a depreciating asset. Sometimes you have to sell at a loss while it’s still a loss not a zero. Or you can keep him For the remainder Of his contract he'll come around someday
pi2000 Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, darksabre said: The Sabres will never assume that risk. They would void his contract immediately. disagree. If the ADR is a success and he passes a physical, I believe they would clear him to play. That said, they would healthy scratch until a trade can be worked out.
darksabre Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 Just now, pi2000 said: disagree. If the ADR is a success and he passes a physical, I believe they would clear him to play. That said, they would healthy scratch until a trade can be worked out. They wouldn't clear him. No chance. The only way it happens is if they come to an agreement ahead of time, which is what the lawyers are for.
dudacek Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: Or, “If I wait long enough, Jack will get an agreed upon surgery of some type, the rehab goes well and he’s cleared to play, Jack returns to form, and teams will line up to make legitimate offers for a player of his caliber. I got time.” Lot of ifs there, but it is my hoped-for ending as well. I just wish I saw more signs that Adams is actively working toward this resolution. Edited September 28, 2021 by dudacek
Buffalonill Posted September 28, 2021 Report Posted September 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: Lot of ifs there, but it is my hoped-for ending as well. I just wish I saw more signs that Adams is actively working toward this resolution. I'm sure he is No one has any idea what's going on .
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