Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[darksabre]

23 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Does it matter?

The Sabres have been actively trying to trade Eichel, reportedly to multiple bidders for at least five months; they know his current market value. Do you think his value is going to increase without a breakthrough in the surgery standoff?

Does anyone?

I believe the Sabres have been trying to trade Eichel since Adams was hired and the reason he's sticking to his guns now is because he didn't get good offers before the injuries and he's definitely not getting them now.

This is why I'm sure they'll keep Jack here as long as necessary to get the value for him they want. Surgery, no surgery, whatever. It's a siege.

[Marvin]

Once GMKA was committed to something better than the equivalent of the Rangers' offer of projects, crap, and cap anchors, our current position was always a possibility.  This is not to disparage Eichel, canonise GMKA, or any other false dichotomy out there.  The only leaks we know of show that teams have offered projects, a good prospect exclusive or a good draft pick, crap, and cap anchors -- ROR 2.0.  Anyone who asserts otherwise is WRONG.

So, for @Hoss, @dudacek, et al., don't question my intelligence because I am still a fan of this team and can't see a way out of this morass which satisfies me from legal, ethical, financial, medical, and hockey viewpoints.  I think that until Eichel plays all his cards to get the surgery he wants on his dime with no liability to the Sabres whatsoever that GMKA should stay the course, hockey media be damned, and we as fans can live with the consequences. 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I believe the Sabres have been trying to trade Eichel since Adams was hired and the reason he's sticking to his guns now is because he didn't get good offers before the injuries and he's definitely not getting them now.

This is why I'm sure they'll keep Jack here as long as necessary to get the value for him they want. Surgery, no surgery, whatever. It's a siege.

I agree with this.

Can the siege end without Eichel getting surgery? If teams weren't going to pay up then and they aren't paying up now, what is going to change their minds?

[K-9]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I agree with this.

Can the siege end without Eichel getting surgery? If teams weren't going to pay up then and they aren't paying up now, what is going to change their minds?

I think the only thing that changes minds is Eichel on the ice showing no ill effects. 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I agree with this.

Can the siege end without Eichel getting surgery? If teams weren't going to pay up then and they aren't paying up now, what is going to change their minds?

Only if Jack goes rogue. 

Is there a liability to the Sabres if they okay ADR and he gets hurt badly afterwards? 

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I think the only thing that changes minds is Eichel on the ice showing no ill effects. 

One question I would like to see answered is why are some teams (the Wild, apparently the Ducks) willing to approve ADR and the Sabres are not?

It can't merely be about insurance because each team has to be dealing with similar insurance realities.

[K-9]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

One question I would like to see answered is why are some teams (the Wild, apparently the Ducks) willing to approve ADR and the Sabres are not?

It can't merely be about insurance because each team has to be dealing with similar insurance realities.

Did anyone from the Wild or Ducks organizations actually go on the record with that? Otherwise, it’s just more of the incessant hockey media blather. 

[7+6=13]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

Nobody is advocating for throwing him away but it’s time to get value for him which is very clearly not “four first-round equivalents.” It’s time to move on. This franchise will suffer the further this goes on. Beane is considered a mastermind because of how deliberate he has been. His moving players of consequence for what might have initially been perceived as below market value now looks absolutely masterful. He never had to trade THE guy but he’s dealt enough young starters to make it clear he knows how to do what needs to be done. Adams did it with Reinhart. It’s time to do it with Eichel.

Beane never dealt anyone with a perceived below market.  His claim to fame is getting more and then what eventually used that capital to get.  Not even close to an Eichel situation,  so absolutely no comparison can be drawn.

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Absolutely. Show them to a team that is serious about making an offer. But do you show them to tire-kickers?

Does it really matter?  Do you think there are GM's that don't really have any interest that will ask for medical records? 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, klos1963 said:

Does it really matter?  Do you think there are GM's that don't really have any interest that will ask for medical records? 

Sure.

[dudacek]

55 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Once GMKA was committed to something better than the equivalent of the Rangers' offer of projects, crap, and cap anchors, our current position was always a possibility.  This is not to disparage Eichel, canonise GMKA, or any other false dichotomy out there.  The only leaks we know of show that teams have offered projects, a good prospect exclusive or a good draft pick, crap, and cap anchors -- ROR 2.0.  Anyone who asserts otherwise is WRONG.

So, for @Hoss, @dudacek, et al., don't question my intelligence because I am still a fan of this team and can't see a way out of this morass which satisfies me from legal, ethical, financial, medical, and hockey viewpoints.  I think that until Eichel plays all his cards to get the surgery he wants on his dime with no liability to the Sabres whatsoever that GMKA should stay the course, hockey media be damned, and we as fans can live with the consequences. 

If I've ever come across as questioning your intelligence, I apologize.

I see this as a true prisoner's dilemma and the answer is going to change based on what premise you choose.

Others seem to think Adams' primary job is to stand by his principles. I think it is to untie this knot.

For me, I keep coming back to the forced departures of two of the all-time great Sabres:

• Dominik Hasek was effectively traded for a chain of picks that if you squint real hard kinda mighta became Jochen Hecht. 4 years later we were in the semi-finals
• Pat Lafontaine was traded for a 2nd-rounder who became a 4th line plug named Andrew Peters. Two years later we were in the finals.

Hanging on to Jack Eichel with all our might might not be as important as we think it is.

Edited September 28, 2021 by dudacek

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, Andrew Amerk said:

He’s obviously good enough to skate in practices in Boston, but not good enough to pass a physical. The injury is severe enough to need a surgery. Seriously what would teams need to see? Everything is out in the public arena enough that me and you are talking about it. 

Do you think a doctor can determine what the best course of treatment and long term prognosis is based on what we read in the press?  Would you trust a doctor's advice that didn't examine you or your medical records?

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Sure.

Why? What will they gain from that, and how will that hurt the Sabres?

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Does it matter?

The Sabres have been actively trying to trade Eichel, reportedly to multiple bidders for at least five months; they know his current market value. Do you think his value is going to increase without a breakthrough in the surgery standoff?

Does anyone?

I don't see his value increasing to what KA is asking until he's healthy and has proven he can play at an elite level.  Maybe if he has surgery and plays in the Olympics.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Why? What will they gain from that, and how will that hurt the Sabres?

Curiosity? Share it with a reporter? Does Jack have any say in who sees his records?

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Did anyone from the Wild or Ducks organizations actually go on the record with that? Otherwise, it’s just more of the incessant hockey media blather. 

Mike Russo of the Athletic, who I consider one of the better hockey reporters out there, reported the Wild were willing. I've read that a Ducks beat reporter reported the same, but did not see that report first hand.

How do you decide what is or isn't blather?

Edited September 28, 2021 by dudacek

[klos1963]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Curiosity? Share it with a reporter? Does Jack have any say in who sees his records?

That doesn't make any sense. 

I have to assume he has some say, they are his medical records, but maybe the team has 'rights' to it?  Also, since Jack has said he'll go anywhere, I don't think he'd object.

 

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Again, how would YOU have played it? Tell me the obvious right way this should have been handled.

I played exactly how I would have played it: I watched and rolled my eyes. I don’t make millions to make these decisions.

[klos1963]

1 hour ago, Norcal said:

So he failed his physical. Does that mean surgery is the only way to repair the injury or could it still heal with rest? I know the Sabres prefer the fusion but are they recommending surgery? 

Could he potentially rest and rehab until say January?

Then he could come back a couple weeks for Buffalo before playing in the Olympics? 

That would give teams a chance to see if he's healthy and allow him to play in the Olympics which he said are important to him. 

If teams aren't going to trade for an injured player then Eichel better heal up one way or the other if he wants out. 

I believe KA said the team agrees that he needs surgery, but they disagree on the procedure.

[Hoss]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If I've ever come across as questioning your intelligence, I apologize.

I see this as a true prisoner's dilemma and the answer is going to change based on what premise you choose.

Others seem to think Adams' primary job is to stand by his principles. I think it is to untie this knot.

For me, I keep coming back to the forced departures of two of the all-time great Sabres:

• Dominik Hasek was effectively traded for a chain of picks that if you squint real hard kinda mighta became Jochen Hecht. 4 years later we were in the semi-finals
• Pat Lafontaine was traded for a 2nd-rounder who became a 4th line plug named Andrew Peters. Two years later we were in the finals.

Hanging on to Jack Eichel with all our might might not be as important as we think it is.

It’s incredibly important to a lot of people but it could not be clearer that this team needs to move on. Perception of the masses do not matter but the overall perception is rippling throughout the league. It’s going to hurt in dealings with players, executives, coaches and all the in between.

27 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Did anyone from the Wild or Ducks organizations actually go on the record with that? Otherwise, it’s just more of the incessant hockey media blather. 

It all is unless it serves a role of uplifting the spirits of the Sabres, apparently. We all must draw our own conclusions based off far too little information if we’re to have any conversation here. I see plenty of signs the Sabres are primarily responsible for one of the worst situations imaginable between a player and the team that employs him.

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

All things change with time. 

Oof. That’s not even remotely true.

[K-9]

Just now, dudacek said:

Mike Russo of the Athletic, who I consider one of the better hockey reporters out there, reported the Wild were willing. I've read that a Ducks beat reporter reported the same, but did not see it first hand.

How do you decide what is or isn't blather?

I look for actual quoted sources. So until anyone from the Wild or Ducks actually goes on the record, it’s all conjecture in my mind. But allowing the ADR is only half the equation. What are those teams actually offering in terms of value in a trade? All I’ve heard is rumors and they were underwhelming to say the least. 

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

I understand that, but what would even be in there that isn’t already known about his injury?

The biggest advantage to the other teams would be being able to see the reports from the various specialists who have seen Jack and see why they are recommending ACDF or ADR.  This would allow their Doctors to come to a conesus on What procedure to recommend to have

1 hour ago, Curt said:

The severity of the injury, whether it’s improved at all with rest/time, what symptoms Eichel was/is feeling, probably a lot of other things.

 

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

HIPAA

Jack would have to sign a release before the records went out.

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

I believe the Sabres have been trying to trade Eichel since Adams was hired and the reason he's sticking to his guns now is because he didn't get good offers before the injuries and he's definitely not getting them now.

This is why I'm sure they'll keep Jack here as long as necessary to get the value for him they want. Surgery, no surgery, whatever. It's a siege.

A large contributing factor to this was Pegula blocking a trade of Jack and Krueger having too much control over personnel. A decision was made to make one last run with the core group, that’s where the Taylor Hall makes us a Cup Contender comes from

 Staal was all Adams, but Hall and Eakin were all Ralph.

45 minutes ago, dudacek said:

One question I would like to see answered is why are some teams (the Wild, apparently the Ducks) willing to approve ADR and the Sabres are not?

It can't merely be about insurance because each team has to be dealing with similar insurance realities.

It’s more the fact that the  company that insures Eichel’s Contract would void the policy leaving the Sabres Responsible for up to 50 Million in guaranteed Salary if he cannot play.  The caveat and the risk the Sabres could take is 10 Million in LTIR Cap Space per year might be desirable to the Leafs, Kings, Tampa or Montreal and that they would take His Deal

55 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Only if Jack goes rogue. 

Is there a liability to the Sabres if they okay ADR and he gets hurt badly afterwards? 

See above

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

It’s incredibly important to a lot of people but it could not be clearer that this team needs to move on. Perception of the masses do not matter but the overall perception is rippling throughout the league. It’s going to hurt in dealings with players, executives, coaches and all the in between.

It all is unless it serves a role of uplifting the spirits of the Sabres, apparently. We all must draw our own conclusions based off far too little information if we’re to have any conversation here. I see plenty of signs the Sabres are primarily responsible for one of the worst situations imaginable between a player and the team that employs him.

Just to be clear here, because there is a lot of overlap in where you and I are coming from, I do not agree whatsoever with the bolded.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around for this situation. I do believe it is Kevyn Adams job to fix it and that digging in has not fixed it yet and shows no signs of fixing it in the future.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

It’s incredibly important to a lot of people but it could not be clearer that this team needs to move on. Perception of the masses do not matter but the overall perception is rippling throughout the league. It’s going to hurt in dealings with players, executives, coaches and all the in between.

It all is unless it serves a role of uplifting the spirits of the Sabres, apparently. We all must draw our own conclusions based off far too little information if we’re to have any conversation here. I see plenty of signs the Sabres are primarily responsible for one of the worst situations imaginable between a player and the team that employs him.

What are these plentiful signs you see? Do you have anything concrete, other than your intense dislike for team management and unsubstantiated op/eds from the hockey media? Do you have the requisite medical knowledge or sources that indicate the Sabres medical opinion is flawed? Because that’s all I’ve ever hear KA cite; the medical recommendation from team doctors that Eichel disagrees with. 

[Brawndo]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I look for actual quoted sources. So until anyone from the Wild or Ducks actually goes on the record, it’s all conjecture in my mind. But allowing the ADR is only half the equation. What are those teams actually offering in terms of value in a trade? All I’ve heard is rumors and they were underwhelming to say the least. 

A Russo Quote is as good as getting it directly from The Wild. 
 

Scott Burnside was embedded in the Wild Draft Room on the  weekend of the draft. 
 

He mentioned a conversation they were having about Eichel and that the potential return was on a dry erase board. 
One of the front office personnel mentioned that’s a lot for Him, and another responded with but it’s Jack Eichel.