Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Digger]

31 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So Nick, how many of these teams will allow ADR surgery?

According to Elliot Friedman there are some teams that would agree to Jack's desired surgery which is good.

Now we just a team to step up for a good trade.  Even though Eichel is injured and won't play right away there's still room for a trade in my opinion.  Buffalo really wants a top end center prospect and subtracting that prospect from a top NHL team wanting to win won't really affect their lineup.  The top prospects that we have talked about have not played regular minutes yet in the NHL.  It's the potential salary dumps coming back that hurts the other teams making the trade.  Get the top prospects, retain some salary, and put a condition on the draft picks (based on Eichel's recovery - if that's still allowed in the CBA).

Get er done boys. 

[dudacek]

Basically what Weave said value-wise with conditionals to cover the boom or bust factor:

• A young player, a prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick (Krebs, Turcotte, Zary)
• A prospect or pick equivalent to a late first/early second (Elvenes, Perreault)
• A cap equalizing veteran with some value on the ice, or as an asset to be flipped (Smith, Quick)
• A conditional prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick for the Sabres if Jack comes back as Jack
• A conditional prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick for the other team if Jack doesn't come back

Net result would be something like Turcotte and Quick for Jack if he busts; Turcotte Quick, Kupari and a 1st if he booms; Turcotte, Quick and Kupari if he breaks even. It balances out the risk.

Edited September 24, 2021 by dudacek

[Flashsabre]

31 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Basically what Weave said value-wise with conditionals to cover the boom or bust factor:

• A young player, a prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick (Krebs, Turcotte, Zary)
• A prospect or pick equivalent to a late first/early second (Elvenes, Perreault)
• A cap equalizing veteran with some value on the ice, or as an asset to be flipped (Smith, Quick)
• A conditional prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick for the Sabres if Jack comes back as Jack
• A conditional prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick for the other team if Jack doesn't come back

Net result would be something like Turcotte and Quick for Jack if he busts; Turcotte Quick, Kupari and a 1st if he booms; Turcotte, Quick and Kupari if he breaks even. It balances out the risk.

Teams aren't going to put conditional prospects up in a deal. It will have to be picks with conditions on them.

[thewookie1]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Basically what Weave said value-wise with conditionals to cover the boom or bust factor:

• A young player, a prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick (Krebs, Turcotte, Zary)
• A prospect or pick equivalent to a late first/early second (Elvenes, Perreault)
• A cap equalizing veteran with some value on the ice, or as an asset to be flipped (Smith, Quick)
• A conditional prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick for the Sabres if Jack comes back as Jack
• A conditional prospect or pick equivalent to a top 10-20 pick for the other team if Jack doesn't come back

Net result would be something like Turcotte and Quick for Jack if he busts; Turcotte Quick, Kupari and a 1st if he booms; Turcotte, Quick and Kupari if he breaks even. It balances out the risk.

You cannot have conditional players, only picks.

[dudacek]

9 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Teams aren't going to put conditional prospects up in a deal. It will have to be picks with conditions on them.

Probably not.

It could be something like a team gets to protect X number of prospects and you get your pick of the rest, I suppose.

Wasn't really focused on the specifics, more just the value.

[nucci]

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/nhl-trade-buffalo-sabres-jack-eichel-insane-frustrated-exec-tomas-hertl-update/

[Buffalonill]

8 minutes ago, nucci said:

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/nhl-trade-buffalo-sabres-jack-eichel-insane-frustrated-exec-tomas-hertl-update/

Sorry you can't have him for free armstrong

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, nucci said:

https://pittsburghhockeynow.com/nhl-trade-buffalo-sabres-jack-eichel-insane-frustrated-exec-tomas-hertl-update/

Other GMs can go F themselves then. We aren't trading Eichel for 2 Conditional 1sts and a Cap Dump.

 

I'd still push Vegas for Krebs, Tuch, & Smith with some conditional 1st in 2023.

 

 

[LabattBlue]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Other GMs can go F themselves then. We aren't trading Eichel for 2 Conditional 1sts and a Cap Dump.

 

I'd still push Vegas for Krebs, Tuch, & Smith with some conditional 1st in 2023.

 

 

…and Vegas would hang up.  You are not getting that for a broken John.  Not even close. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by LabattBlue

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

…and Vegad would hang up.  You are not getting that for a broken John.  Not even close. 

We had a broken John once at our old house.  Fortunately we had a few spares.

+++++

We are now on page 308.

Oh, the humanity ...

[darksabre]

I really don't know how a conditions-based trade would work in this case. Jack is on track to get a surgery that might not only cause immediate issues, but also issues many years down the road. Do the conditions extend to the end of his contract? Can you ask to be awarded picks in 5 years because he finished the contract without issues from the surgery?

I don't know how the Sabres get a fair return for Jack without having conditions that extend all the way to the end of his contract. And what team would agree to a trade like that? I feel like it would be unprecedented.

[Norcal]

Looks like Eichel will be sticking around for a while huh? 

[PromoTheRobot]

30 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Looks like Eichel will be sticking around for a while huh? 

Like a stale fart.

[Buffalonill]

33 minutes ago, Norcal said:

Looks like Eichel will be sticking around for a while huh? 

Fine by me if we could somehow land wright and jack Changes his mind that would be the Ultimate win 

[Pimlach]

On 9/23/2021 at 10:30 AM, dudacek said:

This seems the most likely path, unless Brisson can sweet talk a GM into accepting disc replacement and paying the freight.

Because Adams has failed at both, and at getting Jack to accept the situation — although most here seem to think that is a success, not a failure.

Adams failed at both?  Given this situation the failure must be shared with Fish/ Eichel carrying a big load of it for thinking GMs would line to trade for $50M of damaged goods requiring surgery.   I said way back when the folks here were conjuring up trade possibilities with varies teams,  none of those trades would happen because of the unresolved risk.  
 

Maybe Brisson would have taken another path with his client, a less messy one.  

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Adams failed at both?  Given this situation the failure must be shared with Fish/ Eichel carrying a big load of it for thinking GMs would line to trade for $50M of damaged goods requiring surgery.   I said way back when the folks here were conjuring up trade possibilities with varies teams,  none of those trades would happen because of the unresolved risk.  
 

Maybe Brisson would have taken another path with his client, a less messy one.  

Criticisms of Adams are not exonerations of Eichel, at least not from me.

I hope that is not your perception of my position.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Criticisms of Adams are not exonerations of Eichel, at least not from me.

I hope that is not your perception of my position.

I need to understand what exactly you're criticizing Adams for here. Something concrete that happened or an imagined scenario? Or just the sins of prior administrations?

Edited September 24, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Marvin]

Based on what I have heard from around the NHL, the offers never included a top tier prospect, always included at least one long term cap anchor, and rarely included top 10 picks.  So take the Rangers rumours as typical.  That is my measuring stick.

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I need to understand what exactly you're criticizing Adams for here. Something concrete that happened or an imagined scenario? Or just the sins of prior administrations?

Here? as in the post @Pimlach was quoting? It's in his post.

In depth? I started a thread and made a whole bunch of posts I'm sure people are already tired of and I'm not going to repeat.

Your post comes across as incredibly condescending to me. Please let me know if I'm reading it wrong.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Here? as in the post @Pimlach was quoting? It's in his post.

In depth? I started a thread and made a whole bunch of posts I'm sure people are already tired of and I'm not going to repeat.

Your post comes across as incredibly condescending to me. Please let me know if I'm reading it wrong.

Oh, this post?

Whatever respect he deserves for not caving to a bad offer, is voided by his inability to find a way to make a deal happen.

You're assuming he is the reason why no deal had happened, without knowing what if anything was offered.

He seems to have left himself no escape hatch in order to rehabilitate Jack’s value.

This is your opinion. The Sabres do not need an escape hatch. They hold Jack's rights for 5 more seasons.

Medical compromise seems off the table.

What does medical compromise mean here? It's one surgery or another. There's no compromise.

He hasn’t been able to make a creative deal involving conditionals or salary dumps materialize.

It takes two to tango. I suspect if Adams took whatever was offered, you would certainly take issue with such a meager return.

And he’s boxed himself out of allowing Jack a dignified road back to the team by allowing things to get personal.

Again, your opinion that Jack would come back and that Adams made it personal. Oh and nice embellishment describing it as "boxed in a corner."

Whatever breaks the logjam is going to come months after it could have, too late to help Granato and the kids execute this seasons plan.

That's true. 

He’s done a good job of making Jack the bad guy,

I think Jack did that to himself without help.

but in the process he’s allowed things to get to this point and he’s failed to execute his job: making the team better.

Once again, opinion. You also ignore Jack and his old agents' role in poisoning the well. I don't think Adams "allowed" anything. He held his ground and maintained silence. No doubt you found that incredibly frustrating.

Tell me I’m wrong.

Do I have to state the obvious?

Edited September 24, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[dudacek]

So I take it that's a 'yes' to condescending?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

This damn thread has turned brother against brother.

It's at least as bad as any of the tank era threads.

I am really coming around to @PASabreFan reasoning that it has run it's course and is no longer serving the intended purpose.

What do you say Mr. Ligerchev?  Will you tear down this thread?

Did I do that right @PASabreFan ??

[PromoTheRobot]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So I take it that's a 'yes' to condescending?

You said, quote, "Tell me I'm wrong." I thought that was what I was doing. Sorry. If you are going to make a statement like that, expect to be challenged.

Edited September 24, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

So I take it that's a 'yes' to condescending?

I don't want to get involved in a spat. However, from my reading I don't think he is trying to be condescending. He simply gave his responses point by point to some of your responses. 

As @New Scotland (NS)perceptively points out this topic appears to have run its course. Not because it isn't a worthy topic but because there hasn't been any movement or change in this extended stalemate. 

You are one of the better posters in this forum. I don't always agree with your takes but I always consider them because they are well stated and reasoned. I've noticed that in this extended topic that the level of friction has increased among the contributors. As I said in a prior post more attention should be paid to the players on the ice than to this current Jack situation unless there is a change in this non-moving drama. 

I hope you receive my comment in the spirit it was intended. 

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

This damn thread has turned brother against brother.

It's at least as bad as any of the tank era threads.

I am really coming around to @PASabreFan reasoning that it has run it's course and is no longer serving the intended purpose.

What do you say Mr. Ligerchev?  Will you tear down this thread?

Did I do that right @PASabreFan ??

Frankly, I think this is a perfect example of just how toxic the situation is for the franchise, city and fanbase. Adams needs to find a workable deal and end this.