Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Digger]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Wait wait wait hold up - so one of the strongest arguments apparently for Jack being a poor influence in the room is Gionta “saying nothing”? 

We sure this isn’t just a case of people filling in an unknown with their already constructed narrative? 

Don’t really need to ask the question I suppose when I can just drop another mic:

“Lot of stuff came down yesterday, some unfair criticism his way,’’ Gionta said of Eichel. “He’s a great guy in the room, great teammate, he wants to do everything to win and he’s a young kid maturing. I think he feels a lot of the pressure for what he is, the face of the franchise at 19, 20 years old who is supposed to come in and revive the entire organization.“

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.democratandchronicle.com/amp/100740266

Most people in general can find something nice to say about another especially when it's on record (radio interview or in print).  I took my views on Gionta's comments from an Instigators episode (sorry I'm not going to go and find it).  They were talking about who should be the next team captain.  Gionta did not come out and speak highly of Eichel as a captain and Gionta and Rivet have both been captains in their history so I took the lack of endorsement as a message.  But that's just me.  None of us really knows because we are not on the team or teammates with him.

[Thorner]

33 minutes ago, Digger said:

Most people in general can find something nice to say about another especially when it's on record (radio interview or in print).  I took my views on Gionta's comments from an Instigators episode (sorry I'm not going to go and find it).  They were talking about who should be the next team captain.  Gionta did not come out and speak highly of Eichel as a captain and Gionta and Rivet have both been captains in their history so I took the lack of endorsement as a message.  But that's just me.  None of us really knows because we are not on the team or teammates with him.

Yes, we do know. Gionta said Eichel is good in the room in the quote I posted. People were mistakingly saying that Gionta never spoke on Jack's character, only his talent. And then pretending that he must have a poor view on Jack because of this, to fit their narrative. This is in fact false. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Thorny

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

Although, I don’t recall him going out of his way to say that Eichel is a great guy in the room or anything.

 

2 hours ago, Digger said:

Yes I agree.  Gionta did not say anything specifically bad about Eichel but he did not say anything positive either other than that he was and is a talented player.  I think that Gionta not being able to say anything towards Eichel's character or leadership speaks volumes.

It can't speak volumes if there is a literal instance of him speaking to Jack's character. You have no basis for assuming the "silence" in a particular instance means anything when you are only guessing to begin with and it's been documented Gionta feels a different way. 

[steveoath]

Fwiw: Gionta on Eichel

“Lot of stuff came down yesterday, some unfair criticism his way,’’ Gionta said of Eichel. “He’s a great guy in the room, great teammate, he wants to do everything to win and he’s a young kid maturing. I think he feels a lot of the pressure for what he is, the face of the franchise at 19, 20 years old who is supposed to come in and revive the entire organization.

“He said it at his end-of-year news conference, 'There’s a difference between saying you want to win and doing the things to put yourself and your team in position to win.' That’s where we need to go as an organization and as players, look to what we can contribute to help a winning culture.’’

Linkypoo 

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Curt said:

 

Anyway, you say that maybe Eichel is not beloved by his teammates, maybe there are different factions in the dressing room.  I think maybe you are right.  I think that’s a negative thing.  That’s all I’m saying.  No more, no less.

Where I haver a different perspective from you on this locker room attitude issue is that it is rare that there is as much unanimity and warmth among all the players and even the coaches in the room that you seem to believe exists in most locker rooms. Considering the wide array of personalities and different nationalities and backgrounds it is not as tightly knitted as you make it out to be. That's all I'm saying. No more, no less. 

[Buffalonill]

People just love making up crap on jack eichel buffalo just loves running people out 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

That’s exactly the point (re: the bold). The scale is weighted so ridiculously that former coaches, teammates, accepted leaders like McCabe can come out with glowing comments on Jack but if we’re made aware of one guy who doesn’t like him, it’s “part of a larger puzzle”. 

Let’s just make sure to use all the pieces. The evidence here IMO doesn’t point to some sort of 50/50 split, either. The curve these guys have their character evaluated on though is quite steep. 

I have not heard former NHL coaches and teammates come out with glowing comments about Jack.   I would love to see a quote from Bylsma, Housley, McCabe or anyone extolling Jack’s virtues.   

I know he liked Matt Moulson and benefitted from living with him and his family.  Perhaps he needed more of that mentoring and less of the Kane/Bogo influence?  I saw your Gionta quote from 2017.  Gionta is a class act that was not going to rail on him in the media.  I have no doubt that back in 2017 Jack was still an impressionable 19-20 year old, seemingly carrying the weight of the team on his shoulders.  

Four years have past since this quote and Jack has assumed leadership of the team.   It was his team under Ralph, and they brought in veterans to help, something Jack wanted, and even that became a disaster.  Jack probably learned that liking Ralph didn’t matter, he was a bad NHL coach, and getting a good coach and playing through another rebuild would take time.   Three coaches and two GMs are gone since the Gionta quote from 2017,  and we are still a bottom feeder and Jack wants out.  He clearly has no faith in the organization.  

I have heard direct comments from alumni, a current hockey operations staff member, and a current PSE business exec and they were not positive or complimentary.    I do know that boys will be boys, and most hockey players are not choir boys, and some are extremely competitive.   His talent will cause others to overlook any negative aspects of his personality.  

He does not want to play for the Sabres.   I think he will be traded, but only when a deal can be made that improves this team.  

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

 

It can't speak volumes if there is a literal instance of him speaking to Jack's character. You have no basis for assuming the "silence" in a particular instance means anything when you are only guessing to begin with and it's been documented Gionta feels a different way. 

Wow, you are really REALLY going out of your way to defend Jack and try to dispute everything anyone says to the negative of him. 

Let me try to put it this way....a lot of us can't quantify exactly why we have the feeling we have, we couldn't defend our feelings like a lawyer in a court of law...apparently that is what you expect of us.

HOWEVER, there is basis for that feeling we have.  When this team has had other captains, MORE has come out positive about them than there has been about Jack.  You may not think JS Dea matters because he was a minor league player mostly, but the truth is of the other captains the Sabres have had, we do not remember any of that talk coming about them EVEN from a Minor leaguer.  

So can we quantify and defend our exact feelings with specific examples for you to try to take apart? Maybe some of us can, but others of us simply do not have the time to look it up. What we do know is there is more negative about Jacks leadership (even if it is from a minor leaguer, that is still more than most other captains have had), and there is LESS positive we hear of (Gionta may have said good things about him once, but 'other captains' have had positive things said about them much more, from our own personal observation).

And as Pimlach above just said, where is that list of glowing comments about Jack's leadership from former respected players and coaches?  If there is anything I heard along those lines...it is just the basic stuff they have to say, nothing where they go on and on about just how good of a leader he is.  You know where I don't hear anything positive about his leadership?  Anywhere outside of Buffalo.  Listen to some national talk (canadian stations) and you will hear them talk about other teams captains who are good leaders...even guys on not-so-good teams...but you don't hear that about Jack from outside sources who have contacts in the league.

Edited September 20, 2021 by mjd1001

[Thorner]

19 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I have not heard former NHL coaches and teammates come out with glowing comments about Jack.   I would love to see a quote from Bylsma, Housley, McCabe or anyone extolling Jack’s virtues.   

Ya, I mean...I literally posted quotes from those guys, and a video of McCabe thoroughly praising Eichel. From this offseason. 

The discussion is disingenuous at this point. There's no point in me continuing to post proof of what his contemporaries think of him when they all get less attention and recognition combined that a comment by JS Dea. 

You aren't even reading the posts. Meh. 

[Thorner]

24 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Wow, you are really REALLY going out of your way to defend Jack and try to dispute everything anyone says to the negative of him. 

Let me try to put it this way....a lot of us can't quantify exactly why we have the feeling we have, we couldn't defend our feelings like a lawyer in a court of law...apparently that is what you expect of us.

HOWEVER, there is basis for that feeling we have.  When this team has had other captains, MORE has come out positive about them than there has been about Jack.  You may not think JS Dea matters because he was a minor league player mostly, but the truth is of the other captains the Sabres have had, we do not remember any of that talk coming about them EVEN from a Minor leaguer.  

So can we quantify and defend our exact feelings with specific examples for you to try to take apart? Maybe some of us can, but others of us simply do not have the time to look it up. What we do know is there is more negative about Jacks leadership (even if it is from a minor leaguer, that is still more than most other captains have had), and there is LESS positive we hear of (Gionta may have said good things about him once, but 'other captains' have had positive things said about them much more, from our own personal observation).

And as Pimlach above just said, where is that list of glowing comments about Jack's leadership from former respected players and coaches?  If there is anything I heard along those lines...it is just the basic stuff they have to say, nothing where they go on and on about just how good of a leader he is.  You know where I don't hear anything positive about his leadership?  Anywhere outside of Buffalo.  Listen to some national talk (canadian stations) and you will hear them talk about other teams captains who are good leaders...even guys on not-so-good teams...but you don't hear that about Jack from outside sources who have contacts in the league.

Dude just stop. This is getting ridiculous. 

How the flying f*ck am I "going out of my way" by posting a literal quote from the guy everyone was saying's "silence speaks volumes". I'm going out of my way because I wanted to point out the truth? You were happier thinking he said nothing, admit it. 

Whatever. 

- - - 

What Gionta, a player who everyone is saying is a shining example of leadership, someone who everyone respects, *actually said* matters less than the imaginary scenarios constructed in people's minds after an interview where Gionta merely said nothing re: his character. 

How can his actual words mean less than one's personal guess of what he might have been thinking? Bollox. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Thorny

[Sabres Fan in NS]

49 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

People just love making up crap on jack eichel buffalo just loves running people out 

You just proved your first point.  'Buffalo loves to run people out' = crap.

[Thorner]

Here is a tweet from John Vogl featuring a quote from Jake:

Does a comparison to Michael Jordan suffice?

Kyle Okposo??

 

5 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

You just proved your first point.  'Buffalo loves to run people out' = crap.

He's far more on point than most in this thread

[Thorner]

“Looking at how much of a leader Michael Jordan was, I couldn’t help but think about Jack and his competitive drive and trying to make his teammates better this year and how big of strides we took,” Jake McCabe said. “All he cared about this year was just trying to be the best captain of his he could be day in and day out, just trying to lead this group. He did that extraordinarily.”

https://www.wivb.com/sports/eichels-leadership-continues-to-grow/

I literally couldn't write a better fake quote to prove my argument than the above

[mjd1001]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Dude just stop. This is getting ridiculous. 

How the flying f*ck am I "going out of my way" by posting a literal quote from the guy everyone was saying's "silence speaks volumes". I'm going out of my way because I wanted to point out the truth? You were happier thinking he said nothing, admit it. 

Whatever. 

- - - 

What Gionta, a player who everyone is saying is a shining example of leadership, someone who everyone respects, *actually said* matters less than the imaginary scenarios constructed in people's minds after an interview where Gionta merely said nothing re: his character. 

How can his actual words mean less than one's personal guess of what he might have been thinking? Bollox. 

Read your posts.  YOU are the one that needs to stop. The tone of your posts is very confrontational...as I said in my post and other have responded to you also, you are going at people asking them for proof, and exaggerating your own claims. Its there in black and white.  By, nice of you to get so offended that you have to ask someone to 'stop' when they call you out on it. lol

You are missing my whole point (and the point of others).  We have an OPINION.  We are stating that OPINION on a message board.  The fact that you are replying to basically everyone who recently posted their OPINION that jack is a bad leader and wanting them to seeming prove it shows that you are the one that needs to 'stop'   This is a forum. Ideas to be discussed. Opinions to be shared. Every single one that disagrees with you is not an open challenge to you to reply to in order to dispute. Sit down and calm down.

You know what is a sure sign than someone needs a 'time out', when in response to a pretty calm post they use words and phrases like "Dude just stop" , "this is getting ridiculous", dropping F-bombs....and of course NOTHING says a person has an open mind better than when they end their post with the classic "Whatever" lol

Edited September 20, 2021 by mjd1001

[Thorner]

47 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I would love to see a quote from Bylsma, Housley, McCabe or anyone extolling Jack’s virtues.   

 

41 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

And as Pimlach above just said, where is that list of glowing comments about Jack's leadership from former respected players and coaches?  If there is anything I heard along those lines...it is just the basic stuff they have to say, nothing where they go on and on about just how good of a leader he is.  You know where I don't hear anything positive about his leadership?  Anywhere outside of Buffalo.  Listen to some national talk (canadian stations) and you will hear them talk about other teams captains who are good leaders...even guys on not-so-good teams...but you don't hear that about Jack from outside sources who have contacts in the league.

*Thorny provides what is asked*

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Read your posts.  YOU are the one that needs to stop. The tone of your posts is very confrontational...as I said in my post and other have responded to you also, you (thorny) are going at people asking them for proof, and exaggerating your own claims. Its there in black and white.  By, nice of you to get so offended that you have to ask someone to 'stop' when they call you out on it.

Derp. 

Try again. 

[mjd1001]

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

*Thorny provides what is asked*

Derp. 

Try again. 

You don't get the spirit behind my post.  Dude, you come at people in a rude way. You come across as someone who always has to be right. The fact that you said 'try again' shows you have to get the last word in.  Settle down, I'm done with you in this thread (for now).

[Buffalonill]

2 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

You just proved your first point.  'Buffalo loves to run people out' = crap.

You serious? People got upset about ROR and all the fans made such a big deal and he got moved for peanuts. 

I mean Jesus  Christ people made this ridiculous rumor up about him and Jack not liking each other ( beacuse of ( captain pick) and them not  Touching gloves after they score.

Now  People are starting rumors that hes a bad teamate etc

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

“Looking at how much of a leader Michael Jordan was, I couldn’t help but think about Jack and his competitive drive and trying to make his teammates better this year and how big of strides we took,” Jake McCabe said. “All he cared about this year was just trying to be the best captain of his he could be day in and day out, just trying to lead this group. He did that extraordinarily.”

https://www.wivb.com/sports/eichels-leadership-continues-to-grow/

I literally couldn't write a better fake quote to prove my argument than the above

Thanks for providing this.    It literally is the first positive thing I have read about him since he first came into the league.  This story came out after the 19-20 season, another bad one for the team but Jack’s personal best.  Then there was hope that Ralph could maybe build a team and coach it.  So Jack asked for more vets, which they did go out and acquire. The next season was a disaste - Covid and cost cutbacks throughout the organization, a new inexperienced GM, Ralph was not the answer, the new vets did very little, the youth stagnated, and Jack was hurt.  The irony is that Granato benched the vets, played the kids and the team showed some life.  Injured Jack stays away, then comes back for the end of season and talks about the “disconnect “.  

Here we are.  Another group of vets leave and expressed gratitude to be gone.  Our best players are not re-signed.  Our superstar leveraging an injury to get out. 
 

Through this decade or turmoil and misery there is one common thread. 

[Buffalonill]

@Pimlachhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wkbw.com/sports/sabres/sabres-eichel-dismisses-rumors-of-friction-with-former-teammate-ryan-oreilly%3f_amp=true

 

https://buffalohockeycentral.com/2018/02/01/is-there-beef-between-ror-and-eichel/

Thats all i have to say

[French Collection]

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I kind of like this message. Fit into the team culture, the way they play etc. But players' personalities can certainly not "fit in." Look no farther than one Dom Hasek. If you look at one of the best Sabres teams ever and one of the best Bills teams ever, there was clearly a Lincolnesque "Team of Rivals" tension that stirred up creative tension and ultimately production. The Bickering Bills and whatever we'd want to call the '97 Sabres eventually ended up in near-glory, and it wasn't because everyone held hands and sang Shout!/Celebrate-Celebrate-The-Tradition.

It isn’t meant to make everyone fit into a certain mold, just find a role on the team and perform to the best of your abilities. Key word being team, no one is bigger than the group.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, French Collection said:

It isn’t meant to make everyone fit into a certain mold, just find a role on the team and perform to the best of your abilities. Key word being team, no one is bigger than the group.

Technically even that isn't fully true. You can have selfish or egotistical players; but they can't be there from Day 1. You have to have a core group which effectively keeps the team in line. You don't need a team of choir boys but you do need a solid core group of player that greatly outnumbers the bad apples. Plus the bad apples cannot all arrive at once; they must be trickled in slowly in order for their indoctrination to set in or else you could create a civil war.

[Doohicksie]

So Jack's character has been on trial for three pages now but no talk of trade, not even rumors?  Glad I haven't been checking in regularly.

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

So Jack's character has been on trial for three pages now but no talk of trade, not even rumors?  Glad I haven't been checking in regularly.

All of the rumors get their own thread. There is no purpose to this thread.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Hoss

[Doohicksie]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I think it’s worth it to try and paint a more well-rounded picture of what Jack’s peers have to say about him

I don't.  It's a bunch of gossip.

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Just don’t read the thread then. 

I haven't been.  I peek in just to see if there's anything going on and it's a bunch of old biddies arguing about who likes whom.

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, Hoss said:

All of the rumors get their own thread. There is no purpose to this thread.

I'd imagine it's a pretty solid source of traffic for this website during what I imagine is a slower time of year - the 300 pages seek to inform that notion. 

It's filled with discussion and discussion ranks in at least the top 20 things one might look for on a message board.