Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Gabrielor]

47 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Except the veteran centre was awful and the high-scoring winger couldn't score.

The verdict on Hall, Risto, Reinhart, Eichel and the long-term build are yet be determined.

Moves you agree with (I like most of them too) aren't the same thing as "doing well."

He will have "done well" if the new core he is building shows its quality and the team starts contending again.

I consider it well in contrast to the possible alternatives, of which there are only 1. Keep Reinhart and Risto and go again

Edited September 17, 2021 by Gabrielor

[PromoTheRobot]

44 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Its not that it's easier, that has nothing to do with it. Nothing Adams has done makes me believe in him. Nothing he accomplished before the Sabres makes me believe in him. Nothing the Pegulas have done as the Sabres owners again, makes me believe in them.

There is a mountain of actual results that points to this GM and this organization continuing to be a failure. What single thing can you point to and say 'yeah we're more likely to succeed that fail'.

I never couched things in terms of success or failure. I expect improvement. I think the biggest reason is hiring Don Granato. I think we have a young team that will benefit under his tutelage. As for Adams, I discount everything that happened while Ralph Krueger was here because KA was expected to give RK what HE wanted as head coach. I see this year as Year One of the Adams regime. His coach. His vision.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I never couched things in terms of success or failure. I expect improvement. I think the biggest reason is hiring Don Granato. I think we have a young team that will benefit under his tutelage. As for Adams, I discount everything that happened while Ralph Krueger was here because KA was expected to give RK what HE wanted as head coach. I see this year as Year One of the Adams regime. His coach. His vision.

Considering the team vision I think he's definitely the man for the job. Hopefully should help with their collective mindset. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Donnie is the most important element on this year's team.

Dahlin number 2. He needs to emerge as a on-ice leader. (Get him signed!)

[GASabresIUFAN]

43 minutes ago, Thorny said:

@dudacekwas always a big proponent of Botterill having a clearly distinguishable plan, with his failing being centered around execution. 

So you are saying it was the same with Murray?

That's funny, cause that's kinda pretty much exactly the point I am making in this thread about Adams. 

TM didn’t follow the plan.  He had followed the plan he would have drafted players with the draft picks on that sheet instead of trading them for injured players and malcontents. 

I supported Jbot as well because I thought he had a plan and I agree that execution was lacking.

KA has no plan that I can discern other then to save Terry’s money and pray the kids Jbot acquired become good players.  The failure to replace Ullmark with an adequate replacement was the last straw for me. I have zero faith that KA can build a good hockey team.  Wormtongue is a perfect name for him

[Thorner]

22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

TM didn’t follow the plan.  He had followed the plan he would have drafted players with the draft picks on that sheet instead of trading them for injured players and malcontents. 

I supported Jbot as well because I thought he had a plan and I agree that execution was lacking.

KA has no plan that I can discern other then to save Terry’s money and pray the kids Jbot acquired become good players.  The failure to replace Ullmark with an adequate replacement was the last straw for me. I have zero faith that KA can build a good hockey team.  Wormtongue is a perfect name for him

I should point out that wormtongue was also selected as to imply a certain proficiency from Adams, within the context I used it, but ya. 

You say no discernable plan "other than" but, if you add "drafting a lot of players" to it, I think you have a pretty distinguishable plan up until this point. We made eleven selections this draft - didn't trade a single pick. A lot are thinking patience re: all the prospects is the next step, we'll have to see. The plan if not a tank (people don't like that word), is not to sacrifice everything on the team, but to sacrifice nothing of the long-term in perception.

Aren't bringing in big-money free agents. Didn't sign Ullmark to term. 

Presumably if there was a low cost, and good, free agent out there Adams would sign that player if no to-Buffalo overpay was necessary. But players who are on market, who are also good, but are low cost, are hard to find. It's not that Adams is against bringing in good players, it's that the primary focus won't, as of yet, be sacrificed to make that happen. 

The priority is the future. Adams would have signed Ullmark, if the primary terms could be satisfied in that negotiation. This kind of addresses the issue mentioned about "why try to sign Ullmark" if we are tanking/good with Dell and co. after failing on the Ullmark front. The current goaltending situation is merely the non-surprising result of what happens when the focus is where our GM's is. He wasn't against signing Ullmark, it just couldn't be done without forgoing his priority. The distinction between "tanking", and "rebuilding", some would say. 

Personally I'm not sure this represents any kind of substantive difference re: the goal of establishing a winning team, but my thoughts on the aptitude of the strategy are well-documented. The execution of said strategy so far makes sense within the context I'd say, more less.

Edited September 17, 2021 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Murray definitely had a plan.

His plan was to tank to acquire franchise talent, picks and prospects, then flip the picks and prospects for good players to supplement the franchise talent.

He failed because he ignored the human elements of team and organization building.

 

Botterill had a plan

His plan was to make a series of buy-low moves while patiently waiting for his young talent to develop and cleaning up his cap.

He failed because he ignored roster balance and fit with his acquisitions (and lack thereof), few of his young talents developed quickly enough, and all of his acquisitions disappointed.

 

Adams has an obvious plan

His plan is to sweep out the players who have suffered, add a top talent to the forward ranks next summer, pass the mantle of leadership to Granato's post-Eichel core of youngsters, and supplement that with a steady stream of relentless, self-motivated prospects, while maximizing cap flexibility for a big move or two when the timing is right.

Edited September 17, 2021 by dudacek

[Digger]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Murray definitely had a plan.

His plan was to tank to acquire franchise talent, picks and prospects, then flip the picks and prospects for good players to supplement the franchise talent.

He failed because ignored the human elements of team and organization building.

 

Botterill had a plan

His plan was to make a series buy-low moves while patiently waiting for his young talent to develop and cleaning up his cap.

He failed because he ignored roster balance and fit with his acquisitions (and lack thereof), few of his young talents developed quickly enough, and all of his acquisitions disappointed.

 

Adams has an obvious plan

His plan is to sweep out the players who have suffered, add a top talent to the forward ranks next summer, pass the mantle of leadership to Granato's post-Eichel core of youngsters, and supplement that with a steady stream of relentless, self-motivated prospects, while maximizing cap flexibility for a big move or two when the timing is right.

I agree with your take on Murray and Adams.

I am not convinced of your take on Botterill's plan though.  He had some good ideas from an administrative point in building scouts and management for the Sabres and Rochester (didn't really have time to see if these moves would have panned out).  But his player moves were really bad and it seemed like he was just trying to undo everything that Murray did with some of the trades.  I still think ownership forced him to make the O'Reilly trade that will hang around his neck like an anchor for years to come.  

I'm glad Murray and Botterill are gone.  As a fan I want to have confidence in my GM that he will make fair trades and signings to improve the team.  So far Adams is okay (but the Reinhart trade remains to be seen it it pans out for value).

[thewookie1]

24 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Murray definitely had a plan.

His plan was to tank to acquire franchise talent, picks and prospects, then flip the picks and prospects for good players to supplement the franchise talent.

He failed because ignored the human elements of team and organization building.

 

Botterill had a plan

His plan was to make a series buy-low moves while patiently waiting for his young talent to develop and cleaning up his cap.

He failed because he ignored roster balance and fit with his acquisitions (and lack thereof), few of his young talents developed quickly enough, and all of his acquisitions disappointed.

 

Adams has an obvious plan

His plan is to sweep out the players who have suffered, add a top talent to the forward ranks next summer, pass the mantle of leadership to Granato's post-Eichel core of youngsters, and supplement that with a steady stream of relentless, self-motivated prospects, while maximizing cap flexibility for a big move or two when the timing is right.

Murray could find players but didn't have one iota of understanding of "team building" If players were robots, his strategy would of worked but players are not mindless automatons. 

 

[Buffalonill]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

 

I cant believe this is a real tweet this organization is just so embarrassing. 

 

How the hell are the bills run so  Smoothly?  Can someone please fill me the ***** in

[LabattBlue]

27 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

I cant believe this is a real tweet this organization is just so embarrassing. 

 

How the hell are the bills run so  Smoothly?  Can someone please fill me the ***** in

It is embarrassing…and don’t confuse the Bills as a fine tuned organization.  They were lucky Josh lasted until pick 7, or wherever they took him.  Without him,   they would still be a middle of the pack team looking to move on from Rosen. 

[Hoss]

Man, this is some of the better hockey conversation I’ve seen on this board since returning. Reading every post of this back and forth has been worthwhile.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

It is embarrassing…and don’t confuse the Bills as a fine tuned organization.  They were lucky Josh lasted until pick 7, or wherever they took him.  Without him,   they would still be a middle of the pack team looking to move on from Rosen. 

LOL, okay. So now we're citing alternate realities to prove incompetence.  May I remind you that Brandon Beane swung two trades to get up from pick #23 to #7. Not to mention Beane/McDermott went all in on Allen when every "expert" and their grandmother said Allen was fool's gold. Yeah, tell us another story.

[LabattBlue]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

LOL, okay. So now we're citing alternate realities to prove incompetence.  May I remind you that Brandon Beane swung two trades to get up from pick #23 to #7. Not to mention Beane/McDermott went all in on Allen when every "expert" and their grandmother said Allen was fool's gold. Yeah, tell us another story.

Doesn’t matter how far they moved up. My point is if another team picked Allen before 7, how brilliant would they be today? Simple question. 

[Lanny]

7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Doesn’t matter how far they moved up. My point is if another team picked Allen before 7, how brilliant would they be today? Simple question. 

Maybe they stand pat and take Lamar Jackson at pick 12? Would be very curious to see their QB board from that year. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Lanny

[pi2000]

Say what you will, but at least they appear to be following the blueprint that created a winning Bills team.... get rid of guys who don't want to be here, identify desirable player traits and build through the draft.    

[Sabres Fan in NS]

16 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Say what you will, but at least they appear to be following the blueprint that created a winning Bills team.... get rid of guys who don't want to be here, identify desirable player traits and build through the draft.    

It took the Bills some time once they decided to move in this direction.  This is year 1 for the Sabres in this mode.  We need to be patient and trust the process.

[pi2000]

1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

It took the Bills some time once they decided to move in this direction.  This is year 1 for the Sabres in this mode.  We need to be patient and trust the process.

Patience is the key here.   They're drafting 18 year olds vs football where draftees are immediate contributors.   

[mjd1001]

I remember back in the couple years after the tank, it seemed like MOST of the comments on this board were happy about the Evander Kane trade, people were saying back they they didn't want to wait to win and wanted to trade more of the picks for guys who could help right away, and of course like every year there were those who wanted to make big moves in the free agent market.

Then there were others who wanted to not trade away any of the picks, not sign any vets to big contracts unless they were brought up through the system and earned it, and even a couple comments about saving the money you would spend on players you traded for and/or free agents and using that to bolster the scouting dept and to bring in better coaches.  There weren't many of those posters though, and their voices were drowned out by seemingly a 5 to 1 ratio of those who wanted to team to get good and do it quickly.

Well, we are back close to that same 'starting' point again.  Are we still tired of losing and want to take shortcuts to be good again in just a year or two? Or do we want to do it the 'right way' this time, even it it takes 2 times as long (or more)?

Edited September 17, 2021 by mjd1001

[Buffalonill]

38 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

It took the Bills some time once they decided to move in this direction.  This is year 1 for the Sabres in this mode.  We need to be patient and trust the process.

What have we been doing the last ten years . 😞

[Radar]

I'm too old for long term rebuilds. Just vive me an entertaining team. Not so much interested in competing for the cup.......just freaking entertain me PLEASE!!

 

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, Radar said:

I'm too old for long term rebuilds. Just vive me an entertaining team. Not so much interested in competing for the cup.......just freaking entertain me PLEASE!!

This is where the tank teams and beyond have failed.  Except for Housley's 2nd season before the TDL, the team has absolutely failed to be entertaining the last decade.  I have laughed at them more than enjoyed watching them.  (Sabrepede, the Tank, resets, Krueger, etc.)  I hate that.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

19 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

What have we been doing the last ten years . 😞

Saying that this is year 1 of the latest and greatest rebuild ... lol!!

Chin up, buddy.  They have to get it right, or at least righter, one of these years, eh.

[dudacek]

Freidman says he believes the Sabres had talks with at least one team this week.

More interesting to me, he said there is an expectation there may be direction on what will happen in terms of Eichel's surgery as soon as the end of this week. He has heard the Sabres have circled back to the idea that the injury has healed/is healing itself.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/eichels-relationship-sabres-still-storyline-ahead-training-camps/

Also Eklund's Eichel go-round offered a 2-for-1 special today: a 3-way involving the Kings and the Flames. Imagine how much pressure is on the Knights now 😜

[Curt]

3 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

I cant believe this is a real tweet this organization is just so embarrassing. 

 

How the hell are the bills run so  Smoothly?  Can someone please fill me the ***** in

That tweet is from 2014.