Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Ruff Around The Edges]

3 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Just like Girgensons ? Or Cody Hodgson and so on.

 When Jack is gone I don't want to see a captain on this team until someone get this team into the playoffs and becomes that person. 

 

Stop just giving the C away for fun 

 

 

I agree but in some cases now the 'C' is reserved for the most talented or most productive player on the team. The 'C' aspect is what counts in the locker room, in practice, meetings etc. And in some cases that player might not ever wear the C.

[erickompositör72]

12 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

Wait, Jack Eichel might be traded? I forgot at this point

Nope. We're keeping him, stripping him of the "C," and putting him on the 4th line

[Doohicksie]

36 minutes ago, dudacek said:

When people call for someone like Cozens to be captain I wonder how much serious thought they put into it.

He is a 19-year-old kid with less than 1/2 a year experience.

He turned 20 in February.

Quote

Following the departure of Red Wings captain Danny Gare during the 1985–86 season, Red Wings head coach Jacques Demers named Yzerman captain of the team on October 7, 1986, making him the youngest captain in the team's history. Demers said he "wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest". [He] continuously served for the next two decades (dressing as captain for over 1,300 games), retiring as the longest-serving captain of any team in North American major league sports history.

Yzerman was 21 at the time, several months older than Cozens is now. 

Admittedly, Yzerman had played many more games than Cozens at that point:  211 versus Cozens' 41 games.  In terms of where they are right now in their careers, Mittelstadt is is actually more comparable to Yzerman in terms of age and experience.

Not really advocating for either one as captain, but just putting this out there.

[Norcal]

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

The Pegula's were desperate post-Rex and Whaley.  They had egg on their face in NFL circles being duped by those two who were fighting all season.  When it came time to find someone to replace them, McD was wise to demand control in personnel and front office stuff.  T/K Pegs gladly acquiesced.  But that was going on 5 years ago. 

There's been reports (by Paul Hamilton and someone I know) that the Pegula's are not enamored with having given McBeane the authority over the Bills despite recent results. 

Hiring Adams comes off as something that paranoid people would.  He wasn't on anyone's front office radar, but he checks the loyalty box which is apparently more crucial than actual experience.  Maybe Adams makes them feel good about his decisions, I don't know.  So far, the way he's handled the Eichel situation doesn't show a savvy executive.  Nor does the abbreviated HC search, which lends itself to the Pegula's having more control...which was probably their goal all along. 

The search landed exactly where it should have.

On a guy who can work with and develop young players. Someone who will coach them through mistakes and put them in position to overcome or correct them. 

A vet coach chewing up and spitting these guys out wouldn't move the needle forward IMO. 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

I concur; Vet you had me listening until then to which you put a stick in your wheel’s spokes and flipped your bike.

There is plenty to disagree with KA overall but he has been anything but rash or overly reactionary. There has to be a legitimate reason why the Sabres won’t ok the surgery that even we aren’t entirely privy too seeing as the NHLPA hasn’t made a peep about it. One example would be if it’s insurance related and that really wouldn’t be Eichel or the Sabres fault. The NHLPA can’t demand or attempt to force the surgery if the team can’t get insurance to cover the liability. 50 million is no chump change and seeing as the Sabres doctors disagree with the operation then you end up in at a stalemate. I don’t care if the Pegulas are rich, would you want to be left on the hook for 50 mil over 5 years because you had to inherit all the risk of a surgery your own doctors disapproved of.

I honestly feel insurance is the likely culprit; it hypothetically could create this type of impasse where even if Adams was more open to the operation nowadays that he’s tied up over insurance.

Insurance could very well be voided by a surgery that is considered experimental. So why doesn't Jack get the surgery on his own? Aside from the CBA, Jack likely needs the Sabres to pay for it too! So would you roll the dice for a player who doesn't even want to play for you? Does any team that would trade for Jack have the same issues? Adams is playing this correctly.

Edited August 23, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Digger]

1 hour ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

Wait, Jack Eichel might be traded? I forgot at this point

Someone should start a thread on Eichel rumors so that we don't mix it up with this other stuff.  😏

[PromoTheRobot]

52 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

Nope. We're keeping him, stripping him of the "C," and putting him on the 4th line

Actually, a healthy scratch.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, SabresVet said:

The Pegula's were desperate post-Rex and Whaley.  They had egg on their face in NFL circles being duped by those two who were fighting all season.  When it came time to find someone to replace them, McD was wise to demand control in personnel and front office stuff.  T/K Pegs gladly acquiesced.  But that was going on 5 years ago. 

There's been reports (by Paul Hamilton and someone I know) that the Pegula's are not enamored with having given McBeane the authority over the Bills despite recent results. 

Hiring Adams comes off as something that paranoid people would.  He wasn't on anyone's front office radar, but he checks the loyalty box which is apparently more crucial than actual experience.  Maybe Adams makes them feel good about his decisions, I don't know.  So far, the way he's handled the Eichel situation doesn't show a savvy executive.  Nor does the abbreviated HC search, which lends itself to the Pegula's having more control...which was probably their goal all along. 

Obviously the Pegulas were so troubled by Beane's authority they gave him a raise and extended his contract.

 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

 

The guy didn't  even play 82 games but after 41 games we are going to crown him ? 

 Everyone always does this with our prospects I don't get it just let them play 3 years before we make the  "captain " label 

That is what I said.  He does not need to be captain yet.  Then I said he shows leadership abilities.  Two different things 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Pimlach

[Andrew Amerk]

There are a lot of people on this board, who missed the transition of what a Captain is over the years. 

In the past, the Captain was the team leader, whom had specific traits. In the modern NHL, the team Captain is the highest paid player/biggest star/biggest future star. 

I am not saying that I agree with it, but that’s what it has become. 

[Brawndo]

6 hours ago, SabresVet said:

The Pegula's were desperate post-Rex and Whaley.  They had egg on their face in NFL circles being duped by those two who were fighting all season.  When it came time to find someone to replace them, McD was wise to demand control in personnel and front office stuff.  T/K Pegs gladly acquiesced.  But that was going on 5 years ago. 

There's been reports (by Paul Hamilton and someone I know) that the Pegula's are not enamored with having given McBeane the authority over the Bills despite recent results. 

Hiring Adams comes off as something that paranoid people would.  He wasn't on anyone's front office radar, but he checks the loyalty box which is apparently more crucial than actual experience.  Maybe Adams makes them feel good about his decisions, I don't know.  So far, the way he's handled the Eichel situation doesn't show a savvy executive.  Nor does the abbreviated HC search, which lends itself to the Pegula's having more control...which was probably their goal all along. 

The Sabres last game was May 8th and Granato wasn’t officially named HC until June 29th. 
Multiple college, AHL, former HCs were interviewed, so I’m not sure as would characterize that as an abbreviated process. Granato had three interviews for the job, the First with Adams, the Second with the Pegulas and the Third with the Sabres Hockey Management Staff. 
 

Since March, the Adams has re organized the front office, hired Karmanos as Associate GM and hired one of the arguably the Top Three Analytics Minds in the NHL in Sam Ventura who has set upon the path to dramatically increase the size of analytics department. 
If Terry wants His Organization to be Effective, Economic and Efficient this is the way to go about it, and I do not believe the Pegulas came up with this idea themselves as twice Adams flew to Boca to talk about the merits of an expanded department. 

I believe the Pegulas are taking a step back and allowing the Sabres Management Team to run things or else Ventura and Karmanos wouldn’t have come to Buffalo 

 

[French Collection]

40 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

There are a lot of people on this board, who missed the transition of what a Captain is over the years. 

In the past, the Captain was the team leader, whom had specific traits. In the modern NHL, the team Captain is the highest paid player/biggest star/biggest future star. 

I am not saying that I agree with it, but that’s what it has become. 

Save the C for March and pin it on Power. He was 1st overall, gonna be a superstar, right?

[kas23]

5 hours ago, erickompositör72 said:

Nope. We're keeping him, stripping him of the "C," and putting him on the 4th line

March the traitor into town square and rip the badge off the bugger’s sweater. 

[Stoner]

5 hours ago, erickompositör72 said:

Nope. We're keeping him, stripping him of the "C," and putting him on the 4th line

From this day henceward he will be known as Doctor Mr. John Eichel. @New Scotland (NS)

[Ducky]

What about giving three guys an "A" for a season or two and seeing what shakes out?

[triumph_communes]

Okposo will captain I’m not sure why it’s a debate. 

[SabresVet]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

The Sabres last game was May 8th and Granato wasn’t officially named HC until June 29th. 
Multiple college, AHL, former HCs were interviewed, so I’m not sure as would characterize that as an abbreviated process. Granato had three interviews for the job, the First with Adams, the Second with the Pegulas and the Third with the Sabres Hockey Management Staff. 
 

Since March, the Adams has re organized the front office, hired Karmanos as Associate GM and hired one of the arguably the Top Three Analytics Minds in the NHL in Sam Ventura who has set upon the path to dramatically increase the size of analytics department. 
If Terry wants His Organization to be Effective, Economic and Efficient this is the way to go about it, and I do not believe the Pegulas came up with this idea themselves as twice Adams flew to Boca to talk about the merits of an expanded department. 

I believe the Pegulas are taking a step back and allowing the Sabres Management Team to run things or else Ventura and Karmanos wouldn’t have come to Buffalo 

 

I'm skeptical of the Pegula's and their methodology after these past few years making bad executive level hires.  In essence, they need to luck out because they've lost complete trust in outside the organization hires.  Yet, it was their inability to hire a GM that has them there in the first place.  

The front office has been built after a major purge took place, notably with the AGM and now addition of the analytics people.  That's standard operating procedure, but it was something this franchise held off on for quite some time.  

Maybe this all works out and in 2022-23 they're a playoff team.  It's a push to believe an inexperienced GM with a first time HC operating under this ownership can take a young team with a low budget to succeed.  And, as this thread reflects, without their best forward in a difficult division.  

[I-90 W]

29 minutes ago, kas23 said:

March the traitor into town square and rip the badge off the bugger’s sweater. 

Not sure if sarcastic but hitting the like button anyway.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

I believe the Pegulas are taking a step back and allowing the Sabres Management Team to run things

I really think this is at Kevyn Adams' insistence.  I think the meeting at Boca where the decision to fire Krueger was finalized also included Adams laying out his vision for the team, including what input he wanted from the ownership, and I think he got buy-in from the Pegulas.  It kind of seems like that's when it became Adams' team to run.

30 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Okposo will captain I’m not sure why it’s a debate. 

I think you're right.  It's the captain for this season.  There may be young leaders in the lineup but I don't have a problem with having a current captain while the future captain is groomed.

[Brawndo]

36 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

I'm skeptical of the Pegula's and their methodology after these past few years making bad executive level hires.  In essence, they need to luck out because they've lost complete trust in outside the organization hires.  Yet, it was their inability to hire a GM that has them there in the first place.  

The front office has been built after a major purge took place, notably with the AGM and now addition of the analytics people.  That's standard operating procedure, but it was something this franchise held off on for quite some time.  

Maybe this all works out and in 2022-23 they're a playoff team.  It's a push to believe an inexperienced GM with a first time HC operating under this ownership can take a young team with a low budget to succeed.  And, as this thread reflects, without their best forward in a difficult division.  

Distrust, skepticism, dislike are all appropriate feelings for the Pegulas by the Sabres Fanbase. 
 

I have a strong belief that Krueger had much greater role in Hockey Ops last offseason and Adams was smart enough to allow Him to screw up and then shape the FO as he wants. I also believe that Adams is allowing Karmanos and  Ventura to make decisions for Hockey Ops, with Adams being more of a POHO. 
 

Although the goal should be the playoffs, the next two seasons are about Development of the Younger Players and restocking the prospect pool. 

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Distrust, skepticism, dislike are all appropriate feelings for the Pegulas by the Sabres Fanbase. 
 

I have a strong belief that Krueger had much greater role in Hockey Ops last offseason and Adams was smart enough to allow Him to screw up and then shape the FO as he wants. I also believe that Adams is allowing Karmanos and  Ventura to make decisions for Hockey Ops, with Adams being more of a POHO. 
 

Although the goal should be the playoffs, the next two seasons are about Development of the Younger Players and restocking the prospect pool. 

Which doedn't mean another last place finish. If Granato has a full training camp to install his pressure attacking system the Sabres will win some games and will be at least entertaining.

[Doohicksie]

8 hours ago, Brawndo said:

I have a strong belief that Krueger had much greater role in Hockey Ops last offseason and Adams was smart enough to allow Him to screw up and then shape the FO as he wants. I also believe that Adams is allowing Karmanos and  Ventura to make decisions for Hockey Ops, with Adams being more of a POHO.

I think this is exactly what happened.  I think Adams and Krueger disagreed with respect to the direction the team should move, and Adams chose to give Krueger what he wanted knowing he would get what he deserved.  It made Adams look like the bigger man to the Pegulas (rather than participating in infighting) and rather than arguing Krueger didn't have the right concept of how to build and coach this team, he demonstrated it.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The Sabres last game was May 8th and Granato wasn’t officially named HC until June 29th. 
Multiple college, AHL, former HCs were interviewed, so I’m not sure as would characterize that as an abbreviated process. Granato had three interviews for the job, the First with Adams, the Second with the Pegulas and the Third with the Sabres Hockey Management Staff. 
 

Since March, the Adams has re organized the front office, hired Karmanos as Associate GM and hired one of the arguably the Top Three Analytics Minds in the NHL in Sam Ventura who has set upon the path to dramatically increase the size of analytics department. 
If Terry wants His Organization to be Effective, Economic and Efficient this is the way to go about it, and I do not believe the Pegulas came up with this idea themselves as twice Adams flew to Boca to talk about the merits of an expanded department. 

I believe the Pegulas are taking a step back and allowing the Sabres Management Team to run things or else Ventura and Karmanos wouldn’t have come to Buffalo 

 

Terrific analysis. Putting the front office in order and assembling a quality staff is a priority in having a competent hockey operation. Granato was the right hire for this young roster. He wasn't immediately installed. There was a review that he and the other candidates were subjected to. Based on how he handled the team last year there is no doubt that he was the favored candidate. In this year's draft there was a near unanimity by the hockey analysts that our overall drafting was sound. It seems to me that KA is more of a collaborator than a controlling executive. For him coming to the right decision requires a process that has a lot of inputs. 

There is no quick fix. Getting back to being a serious franchise is going to take time. The goaltending position certainly has to be a priority that needs to be addressed. As you and many others have pointed out the issue hovering over this troubled franchise is whether the Pegulas are going to allow this regime the time and space to do their jobs. The model the Pegulas need to follow are the Bills. 

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Which doedn't mean another last place finish. If Granato has a full training camp to install his pressure attacking system the Sabres will win some games and will be at least entertaining.

I can respect your optimism, but unless the goaltending is upgraded, and assuming Jack is gone, this is a bottom 5 team(maybe bottom 2), no matter how you slice it.

 

[edited]The coaches "system" only works when you have talented players to execute it. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by LabattBlue

[PromoTheRobot]

8 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I can respect your optimism, but unless the goaltending is upgraded, and assuming Jack is gone, this is a bottom 5 team(maybe bottom 2), no matter how you slice it.

 

[edited]The coaches "system" only works when you have talented players to execute it. 

We are equating "unknown" with "talentless." That's part of what draws me. Seeing what some of these unknowns can do. Many of them have a Granato connection.  Maybe our new analytics guys can find some gems.

Edited August 24, 2021 by PromoTheRobot