Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Disagree with this.

They are choosing a top 3 pick this year over Jack to be their Kane, while Cozens, Dahlin and Mittelstadt are their Toews, Keith and Sharp

Even if they aren't strictly counting on him to be the #1 (which he would be for the future, currently - the pick isn't actually a certainty) there's no doubting how much more chips they are placing in on the Cozens bet by moving the only center in the organization non negligibly ahead of him in the depth chart for our most important position. Even if he does, luckily, end up a great 2C one day 

[darksabre]

9 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Disagree with this.

They are choosing a top 3 pick this year over Jack to be their Kane, while Cozens, Dahlin and Mittelstadt are their Toews, Keith and Sharp

You're not really disagreeing with me, given that Toews has worn the C since basically day one. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think in hockey you need a locker room leader. Someone who won't let anyone slack or give less than 100%. That's what I see in Cozens. He won't let anyone take shifts off. The last few Sabres seasons there was too much self pity and frustration (Some of that coming from you know who.) That was understandable under inflexible Krueger. I think it will be much different with Granato.

 

 

 

 

 

This is a terrible roster with the worst goaltending group in the league.  Your talking about more wins, more than what?  Last years last place finish?  Your asking a lot of a 2nd year player.  Cozens shows leadership characteristics but he is still learning his way in the NHL. He is still developing physically and as a player.  He should not get a letter yet, let’s see him continue lead without one.  
 

Internal leadership is more than who has the C.  I don’t think we should have a C.   Give the A’s to Okposso, Girgensons, and Dahlin - they need to step up as leaders.  Pushing Dahlin to take more responsibility, and play with more emotion and more attitude, will go a long way to getting the new core established.  Cozens will get there as a leader, I just don’t want him dumped on.  

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I think KA played it right. I suspect the subjects of coaches and team vision came up, and Adams was told to get Krueger what he wanted. As the season played out he waited until it was clear Krueger had to go before revisiting the issue with the Pegulas.  At that point (the meeting in Boca), I think KA secured the endorsement to do things his way. And so far they're letting him run with it.  Compared to past GMs I feel that KA understands and is better prepared to handle ownership and still get what he wants.  The Pegulas hired him because he was familiar but I don't think he is by any means their lapdog.

I blame the owner for not stepping in sooner and ordering the firing of Krueger when it was apparent the team quit on him. There was a clear line of demarcation between the departure when the team played like it was in a stupor and then giving a more energetic effort after Granato took over. 

3 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

How do you know the bolded to be true?  Are you Sam's agent?  Are you KA secret assistant?

And his statement about scoring goals in meaningless games meant little to him is exactly what I expect him to say.  It does not mean that he wants to be traded.  It simply means that he wants to play meaningful hockey in April, May and June.  All hockey players will say that.

None of what you describe was 'played out in the open'.

Why do you think Sam was traded this offseason? 

[erickompositör72]

2 hours ago, jsb said:

Cozens has to be the most overrated 13 point scorer who didn't score a point in his final 8 games that has ever existed on a Sabres roster. I like the kid myself but holy cow are you in for a letdown IMO. Let him prove himself before we hand the crown to him. Does he have potential to be a leader, I hope so but to put that burden on a kid who hasn't done jack squat yet in his career is mind boggling to me.

Apparently you missed his fight

[Sabres Fan in NS]

27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why do you think Sam was traded this offseason? 

I think it was a conclusion that was reached in discussion with Sam, his agent and the Sabre management.

I believe that in that discussion Sam's agent made it clear that Sam would not be prepared / willing to sign a long-term contract with the Sabres, either now, or at the end of next season.  At that point the Sabres were in agreement and said that they were prepared to move on and said they would not be offering a contract for this season and would finalize a trade of Sam as soon as possible, so long as a sufficient return was achieved.  This is most likely.

On the other hand, the other reasonable possibility is that the Sabres told Sam's agent that they were not prepared to offer a contract.  I would think that this possiblilty is about 25%.  Probably less.

The thing is I am not confident to say either happened.  I think the first situation is more likely, but I would not say that is what happened.

 

[SabresVet]

5 hours ago, nucci said:

Yes it does. I have read that Beane has had heated discussions with the Pegula's but he seems to win and can back it up. I just don't understand how they can not hire a quality NHL GM

The Pegula's were desperate post-Rex and Whaley.  They had egg on their face in NFL circles being duped by those two who were fighting all season.  When it came time to find someone to replace them, McD was wise to demand control in personnel and front office stuff.  T/K Pegs gladly acquiesced.  But that was going on 5 years ago. 

There's been reports (by Paul Hamilton and someone I know) that the Pegula's are not enamored with having given McBeane the authority over the Bills despite recent results. 

Hiring Adams comes off as something that paranoid people would.  He wasn't on anyone's front office radar, but he checks the loyalty box which is apparently more crucial than actual experience.  Maybe Adams makes them feel good about his decisions, I don't know.  So far, the way he's handled the Eichel situation doesn't show a savvy executive.  Nor does the abbreviated HC search, which lends itself to the Pegula's having more control...which was probably their goal all along. 

[Buffalonill]

37 minutes ago, erickompositör72 said:

Apparently you missed his fight

Cozens gets into a fight  And is labeled a leader.

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

This is a terrible roster with the worst goaltending group in the league.  Your talking about more wins, more than what?  Last years last place finish?  Your asking a lot of a 2nd year player.  Cozens shows leadership characteristics but he is still learning his way in the NHL. He is still developing physically and as a player.  He should not get a letter yet, let’s see him continue lead without one.  
 

Internal leadership is more than who has the C.  I don’t think we should have a C.   Give the A’s to Okposso, Girgensons, and Dahlin - they need to step up as leaders.  Pushing Dahlin to take more responsibility, and play with more emotion and more attitude, will go a long way to getting the new core established.  Cozens will get there as a leader, I just don’t want him dumped on.  

I think this is probably the best move for this season.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think this is probably the best move for this season.

Speaking of Dahlin ... is anyone concerned that he is not signed yet?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

18 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Cozens gets into a fight  And is labeled a leader.

 

Your sarcasm metre needs a tuneup.

Actually, in the list of things that showed his leadership qualities the fights were not a big part of it.  He showed that he is willing to stand up for his teammates.

[Doohicksie]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Internal leadership is more than who has the C.  I don’t think we should have a C.   Give the A’s to Okposso, Girgensons, and Dahlin

I disagree.  Give a C out.  It just seems like an admission that the team (and no one on it) is "good enough" to be a captain.  Someone is.  That should become clear through training camp.

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

How does having a positive opinion of a player become overrated and "a few games away from greatness?" All I'm saying is Cozens has leadership DNA. I do agree that Okposo and Girgs will contribute. Zemgus has been the forgotten Sabre. I'm curious to see how he'll look after that injury.

I was not reacting to you or your comments, but rather speaking in general.  I have no idea why you are taking it as an attack on you, when I don't know what specific posts you have actually made.

I am saying IN GENERAL, there seems to be a lot of posts on this forum where people are intimating he will be the next captain and a great captain and player at the same time, and that he can be expected to be a critical part of this team improving this year.  That 'general feeling' that a lot of posters have is what I was responding to.  Why do so many people take general statements as personal attacks to their point of view on this board when I am not even reacting directly to any of them??

[mjd1001]

18 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Your sarcasm metre needs a tuneup.

Actually, in the list of things that showed his leadership qualities the fights were not a big part of it.  He showed that he is willing to stand up for his teammates.

To be honest with you, there ARE a lot of fans that think that because he got in a fight that is INDEED the thing that will make him a good leader. 

In light of some of the replies I am getting today, let me state that is NOT what I am saying you are saying....but if you listen to 'the instigators' on a regular basis, there have been quite a few callers over the last 6 months or so that have directly connected him getting into a fight as the single best sign he is going to be a good leader.

[jsb]

As for the C-aptain label, there have been several players who were 1 year leaders so to speak and if I'm not mistaken they had a Captain of the Month Club going on in the early 2000's, I think the 03-04 season but I could be wrong on that year.

[PromoTheRobot]

46 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

The Pegula's were desperate post-Rex and Whaley.  They had egg on their face in NFL circles being duped by those two who were fighting all season.  When it came time to find someone to replace them, McD was wise to demand control in personnel and front office stuff.  T/K Pegs gladly acquiesced.  But that was going on 5 years ago. 

There's been reports (by Paul Hamilton and someone I know) that the Pegula's are not enamored with having given McBeane the authority over the Bills despite recent results. 

Hiring Adams comes off as something that paranoid people would.  He wasn't on anyone's front office radar, but he checks the loyalty box which is apparently more crucial than actual experience.  Maybe Adams makes them feel good about his decisions, I don't know.  So far, the way he's handled the Eichel situation doesn't show a savvy executive.  Nor does the abbreviated HC search, which lends itself to the Pegula's having more control...which was probably their goal all along. 

I need to know what would a "savvy" executive would have done with Eichel by now? Take the first offer? Kowtow to Jack on surgery?

[Buffalonill]

29 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Your sarcasm metre needs a tuneup.

Actually, in the list of things that showed his leadership qualities the fights were not a big part of it.  He showed that he is willing to stand up for his teammates.

I like Cozens but you guys are overrating the kid when he didn't even do anything 

 

List me all these things that showed him being a leader?

Actions not words 

[thewookie1]

20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I need to know what would a "savvy" executive would have done with Eichel by now? Take the first offer? Kowtow to Jack on surgery?

I concur; Vet you had me listening until then to which you put a stick in your wheel’s spokes and flipped your bike.

There is plenty to disagree with KA overall but he has been anything but rash or overly reactionary. There has to be a legitimate reason why the Sabres won’t ok the surgery that even we aren’t entirely privy too seeing as the NHLPA hasn’t made a peep about it. One example would be if it’s insurance related and that really wouldn’t be Eichel or the Sabres fault. The NHLPA can’t demand or attempt to force the surgery if the team can’t get insurance to cover the liability. 50 million is no chump change and seeing as the Sabres doctors disagree with the operation then you end up in at a stalemate. I don’t care if the Pegulas are rich, would you want to be left on the hook for 50 mil over 5 years because you had to inherit all the risk of a surgery your own doctors disapproved of.

I honestly feel insurance is the likely culprit; it hypothetically could create this type of impasse where even if Adams was more open to the operation nowadays that he’s tied up over insurance.

Edited August 23, 2021 by thewookie1

[Pimlach]

40 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree.  Give a C out.  It just seems like an admission that the team (and no one on it) is "good enough" to be a captain.  Someone is.  That should become clear through training camp.

If they give a C out I would be ok with it.  I still don’t think we have a worthy candidate, other than Okposso or maybe Girgs. So I could live with three A’s. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Buffalonill said:

Cozens gets into a fight  And is labeled a leader.

 

Well he was in 2 fights.   He jumps in to aid teammates, something this team has lacked for a long time.  He has leadership potential for other reasons that should be apparent to you when you watch him play or hear him speak. 

[dudacek]

When people call for someone like Cozens to be captain I wonder how much serious thought they put into it.

He is a 19-year-old kid with less than 1/2 a year experience.

At your workplace, how inclined would you be to follow someone with that resume?

No, it's not exactly the same thing, but it is relevant.

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

When people call for someone like Cozens to be captain I wonder how much serious thought they put into it.

He is a 19-year-old kid with less than 1/2 a year experience.

At your workplace, how inclined would you be to follow someone with that resume?

No, it's not exactly the same thing, but it is relevant.

I see him as a future candidate for sure but I sure wouldn’t give him it this year.

[Buffalonill]

26 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Well he was in 2 fights.   He jumps in to aid teammates, something this team has lacked for a long time.  He has leadership potential for other reasons that should be apparent to you when you watch him play or hear him speak. 

 

The guy didn't  even play 82 games but after 41 games we are going to crown him ? 

 Everyone always does this with our prospects I don't get it just let them play 3 years before we make the  "captain " label 

[Buffalonill]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I see him as a future candidate for sure but I sure wouldn’t give him it this year.

Just like Girgensons ? Or Cody Hodgson and so on.

 When Jack is gone I don't want to see a captain on this team until someone get this team into the playoffs and becomes that person. 

 

Stop just giving the C away for fun 

 

 

[Ruff Around The Edges]

Wait, Jack Eichel might be traded? I forgot at this point